Can I do this ? safe/unsafe ?

[gray wolf]

I have some bullets for my 44 that needed a little extra sizing and that makes the front band stretched a little. when crimped in the crimp groove they are about .012 to long and the front band holds them up. They drop in the chamber and are short of seating by about .012 they bind just shy of the case head seating. if I press them in they don't drop out with the gun inverted. They are snug in the throat cause they start out a tag snug to begin with. They clear the firewall with plenty of room, The cases are trimmed .010 short of max length.
I know it's the front band. So here is my question, if I crimp them about .010 up on the front band they seat fine, but will I get enough of a bullet hold so they don't jump the case mouth and are they safe to shoot like that. 10 grains of Unique, and 19 grains of 2400 when I can get it.
The throats are .432 and the bullets are .4326

Thanks

Sam

[bhn22]

Crimp them over the front band instead, to prevent any possible distortion. You may need to reduce your powder charge slightly, but none of your loads appear to be at the firewall, so you may be fine.

[gray wolf]

I hate to put all that bullet into the case they look so funky, But I have seen in the lyman book they say to do that with the 358429 cause some 357 chambers are not long enough.
So you think if I crimp ( .010 or .012 )a few thousand up on the front band the bullet may jump crimp ?

[Iron Mike Golf]

I'd think it would be safe to do so. But using enough crimp to hold the boolit in place might nibble some alloy off the back edge of the drive band. Don't be surprised to see some leading from that. Might work fine, though.

I'd prolly look at sizing to an honest ,432 or .431 and change.

What's the boolit weight? What was the original diameter?

[gray wolf]

The bullet weight is about 255 grains, the front band starts out as .100 and grows to .112 the as cast diameter is .434 / .435
My though was that if I size a tad small that will make the front band grow even more. Chances are that would seat ok. I guess it would be into the throat a tad more.But I would loose my snug throat fit.
How much harm is to have a press fit into the chamber for the last .012 of the case ? Would't that be less of a preasure issue than crimping fully over the front band ?

[cbrick]

Front band of .100" grows to .112" when sizing. Are you sizing these boolits dry? Your only sizing them .002-.003" and the front band should not be growing .012".

Throats are .432" and the boolits are sized .4326". Do these boolits fit through the throats with only mild tapping from say a pencil? If not I recommend sizing them .001" smaller.

You want the front band started in the throats on a chambered round whenever possible. This is what aligns the boolit with the center line of the bore, a very good thing for accuracy.

Rick

[44MAG#1]

While I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer this makes me feel better about myself.
First I would not worry about the .012" raising pressure enough to hurt unless I was using a load that was just on the ragged edge of blowing the cylinder. Since you aren't there yet okay. As far as the bullets moving I would load six seated slightly deeper and fire 5 and look at the sixth one and see if the bullet moved.
Or I would see if sizing the first couple bands nose first to see if the extra length is pushed toward the crimp groove instead of the front of the band.
Of course I am probably wrong again.

[gray wolf]

Thanks men all good info and advise

Same so far.

[Mal Paso]

What cbrick said.

Size your boolits for those .432" throats and have that front band in the throat. You are lucky to have the throat that close. Most chambers are cut long to avoid chambering issues but it also hurts accuracy.

[gray wolf]

Thanks men all good info and advise. I wasn't sure about having them go that far into the throat but as I think about is I guess that's a good thing. How about a Lee push through sizer ? I could size them nose first and any front band drag of lead would go down and not up .

Same so far.

[cbrick]

I don't understand this "dragging lead". You are not sizing them enough to be changing the front band like that. Are you sizing these boolits dry? Something is amiss.

Rick

[Down South]

The bullet weight is about 255 grains, the front band starts out as .100 and grows to .112 the as cast diameter is .434 / .435
My though was that if I size a tad small that will make the front band grow even more. Chances are that would seat ok. I guess it would be into the throat a tad more.But I would loose my snug throat fit.
How much harm is to have a press fit into the chamber for the last .012 of the case ? Would't that be less of a preasure issue than crimping fully over the front band ?
That's basically what I do with my Ruger GP-100. I like the front driving band of my boolits started into the throat. They are just snug and easy to finish chambering with a slight thumb push.

[DLCTEX]

I wouldn't worry about the press fit. I would be inclined to see it as a positive. For sure the boolit will not be undersized. If it bothers you then go with the Lee size die and then lube in the lubesizer.

[dragonrider]

How many have made? If only six or a handful I would not worry about it. You are, of course, fully confident in your powder charge?

[gray wolf]

I wouldn't worry about the press fit. I would be inclined to see it as a positive. For sure the boolit will not be undersized. If it bothers you then go with the Lee size die and then lube in the lubesizer.

OK I won't worry about it, I know the case fit is fine and the bullets are less than .001 over sized for the throats. the press fit into the cylinder is much less than a rim thickness and a little thumb pressure seats them. I am not at max loads so I am going to call it good.
I don't stray to far into areas that go beyond the norm, so when I see something that does not look correct I like to make sure I am good with it.
I guess in my younger days I didn't think so much about things. Thank you for your patients with this and thanks for the help.

[mdi]

What gun are you using these bullets in? I've been reloading/casting for my 5, .44 Magnums for quite a while and have never hat this problem. Where/what are the bullets hitting?

I have roll crimped over the front band, as an experiment to see if there would be a noticeable change in accuracy. No change with the load I was using, but I would rather have a good shooting round that may look funky, than a good looking round I cannot chamber...

[prs]

Older should mean smarter ;-)

Reading down through the thread I was thinking about how the boolit to case stretch tension is THE most dominant factor in keeping the bullet planted until you bust a cap under it. The crimp groove is your suspenders and belt approach, to give you warm and comfy assurance. I would shoot it as you first described.

prs

[44man]

I don't understand this "dragging lead". You are not sizing them enough to be changing the front band like that. Are you sizing these boolits dry? Something is amiss.

Rick
Me too, something is wrong!
I also agree with Rick about over throat size, it does no good at all, you just have another size die in the gun.

[gray wolf]

What gun are you using these bullets in? I've been reloading/casting for my 5, .44 Magnums for quite a while and have never hat this problem. Where/what are the bullets hitting?
I have not had good luck in the past with bullets that are not a slight push through fit in my revolver throats, in this case my SRH So I size a tad over sized for a snug fit. My front band always fits up to the beginning of / or right into the taper at the start of the cylinder throat.
For what ever reason these bullets are a little over size out of the mold, maybe my die is a little off center, but the front band is dragging lead up ward in the direction of the nose, this makes the front band longer in the direction of the nose. Since they are a snug fit in the throat the bullet is going past the taper in the beginning of the throat, and the slightly over sized bullet hits the actual throat and makes me have to push the last few thousands ( very little )of the case into the chamber.
I wasn't sure if that was safe and that's why I asked the original question.
Maybe I should just take a look at why these bullets cast over size and re cast them when I can or check my sizer. I guess I can also just size a little smaller and settle for a passive fit in the cylinder.
My mold and my sizing has always been right on for me so I must have done a slip up some place along the way.

[44man]

I see no problem with safety, just accuracy. Fit first without the gun making fit.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Another approach might be trim some brass 0.12 shorter.

[gray wolf]

Another approach might be trim some brass 0.12 shorter.
Yup, that was my ace in the hole.

[williamwaco]

cbrick + 1 (twice )

[TMenezes]

Here's a suggestion, dunno if someone else mentioned it as I only read the first few posts. I noticed my cast bullet size decreased a few .001ths when I tried Franklin Mold release instead of smoking the mold with a match. That was great for my 429421 NOE mold that was casting fairly large, not so great for my Lee molds that had been dropping slugs that were much closer to bore diameter.

I had no idea there would be any difference between mold release and smoke. I was just tired of burning my fingers with matches lol.