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View Full Version : Take a closer look at your top quality fire safe...



destrux
01-29-2014, 05:25 PM
A few weeks ago a relative of mine had a major house fire, everything in the house was destroyed by the smoke and heat. A large portion of the house was burned to the framework. Thankfully the entire family was ok, except for the loss of their pets. I'll skip over the whole story, and just say that it was accidental, their insurance will be covering everything, and they have a place to stay.

The reason for the post though is that I was fairly surprised that even though he had a top brand (I won't mention which brand, but it's not a cheap safe, it cost around $2,000) 45 minute fire safe, everything in the safe was damaged anyway. The door seal expanded as designed, but did not seal because there were gaps at the corners that allowed heat, smoke, and water into the safe. The fire burned for about 45 minutes, so it was at the limit of what the safe was designed for. The steam destroyed the bluing on several guns, and all of the scopes were ruined. The smoke ruined all of the leather and cloth goods (pouches, slings, etc). Not a total loss, the guns will be able to be fixed I think I don't think the heat damage was severe enough to ruin them. Still, not exactly what you expect to happen. Surprisingly, the ammo that was in there looked ok. No detonations and no signs of heat damage, the cardboard boxes were smoke stained and stink but didn't burn.

So, if you already have a safe, check and see how well the door seals are fitted, you might save yourself a headache later... and if you don't have a safe, take a long look at the fully waterproof/steam proof models before you settle on one.

DRNurse1
01-29-2014, 06:05 PM
Thanks for the on-site in-use information. I am planning an upgrade soon and this information is of great assistance.

CastingFool
01-29-2014, 06:12 PM
I wouldn't have expected that much damage. Hope the insurance covers the firearms and accessories.

bear67
01-29-2014, 09:44 PM
My son was incident commander for Texas Parks and Wildlife during the big Bastrop Complex Fire couple of years ago. I toured many of the areas after the fire and there were fire safe's melted down over the guns in some. His best friend had a large, expensive 1 hour fire rated safe and lost all guns, papers and some jewelery was damaged. Better than nothing, but not fail safe. I want to build a vault room but can not justify the expense. I can make it "bank vault" safe as I have built commercial vaults into buildings in my past. Best thing would be to build the vault and build the house around it Too late now--I intend to live in this house the rest of my days. Too sorry and lazy to move and build again.

wv109323
01-29-2014, 11:08 PM
Must people misunderstand the protection that their gun safe provides. There are fireproof safes but the last I checked they were around $7,000+.

Moonman
01-30-2014, 12:43 PM
Wood Stocks and Grips burn at 500 degrees.

osteodoc08
01-30-2014, 12:49 PM
RSC- residential security containers......these are what most think of when discussing "gun safes". $2000 is not hardly top of the line from any reputable manufacturer truly designed for fire. As your friend found out, water is also the enemy. Very few RSC's are fire AND water resistant.

I have a moderately priced RSC that is bolted down. It is also "Fire rated" for 1500*F for 45 mins. Really doesnt mean much I suppose. It safeguards from theft from smash and grab types mostly whcih is the primary enemy of my guns a tthis point (besides politicians and rust of course.)

I'm sorry to hear about your friends and their pets. Life is not replaceable, items are. My thoughts and prayers with them during this trying time.

john hayslip
01-30-2014, 01:31 PM
I saw in a magazine something about tape you could put in the door that expands to seal the inside so the safe won't "inhale" smoke, etc. Been looking at the gunshows for some. If anyone has a source I'd appreciate a PM. Thanks in advance.

destrux
01-30-2014, 05:16 PM
Yeah I thought a $2K safe was a top line one, but after browsing for a safe last night I saw just how high they can go. I guess it's just not reasonable to expect to be fully prepared for everything when it comes to something like this. Especially on a budget.

Thanks for the prayers/wishes.

osteodoc08
01-30-2014, 05:25 PM
I saw in a magazine something about tape you could put in the door that expands to seal the inside so the safe won't "inhale" smoke, etc. Been looking at the gunshows for some. If anyone has a source I'd appreciate a PM. Thanks in advance.

Youre thinking of Palusol.

Palusol® FIRE SEAL
Palusol® intumescent fire seals are based on Palusol®, a sodium silicate material surrounded in a thermoplastic profile. When exposed to heat Palusol® expands with the development of a fine-porous, compression resistant, non-combustible heal sealing foaming pressure up to 5 times its thickness. This foam then fills joints and gaps preventing the penetration of fire and/or smoke for up to 60 minutes with evaporating water producing an additional cooling effect. Many sizes, shapes and colors are available for your use. This is a perfect product to seal the perimeter of fire resistant systems such as doors, shutters, dampers, cabinets, safes, and wall penetrating cables. Palusol® Fire Seal is available as fire seal or as a combination fire hot/cold smoke seal.

You should be able to look up their website and buy from them.

ohland
01-30-2014, 05:29 PM
Another bad thing is the safe may have a decent rating, but if a bunch of wood is piled on top of the safe, it will be like a banked fire with the coals going....

:(

Recluse
01-30-2014, 05:36 PM
The way I figure it, if my house ever goes up in flames, it and everything in it then belongs to the insurance company. I count on exactly nothing inside my house surviving a fire.

:coffee:

kootne
01-30-2014, 06:51 PM
I probably will never build another house but if I did I have often thought a small concrete room or modified concrete septic tank under the garage slab with a double door creating an air space would be my answer. Both doors being gunsafe doors. Access disguised in basement. Floor level high enough above basement floor to prevent water entry if house fire was put out by fire dept. For now, just hoping there is never a fire.
kootne

r6487
01-30-2014, 09:22 PM
check out www.sturdysafe.com especially the firelining sections

dragon813gt
01-30-2014, 09:43 PM
Any of the "safe" manufacturers you've heard of don't make safes. They make Residential Security Containers. This is what Sturdy makes as well and while their lining is better than drywall it's still not a fire safe. Step into a TL rated safe and one w/ a real fire resistant lining if you want real protection. But be prepared to spend about $10k for an entry level one. Gun safes are marketed in such a deceiving manner. I don't know how they get away w/ it.

Three-Fifty-Seven
01-30-2014, 10:59 PM
I have a Brown Safe (actually green color!) http://www.brownsafe.com/

I also know that AMSEC makes decent safes http://www.amsecusa.com/home/#

And also Graffunder makes safes out of real thick steel too! http://www.graffundersafes.com/

These are the only company's that I know of that make real safes (not RSC's) They are not cheap though, they do provide more security than a $1000 - $2000 RSC!

Here is a good write up on safes ... http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

MTtimberline
01-30-2014, 11:10 PM
If it was me I would just think about the security and locking abilities of the safe and count on anything fire as being a loss. Every person I known of that suffered a major fire have been very heartbroken when they finally seen the contents of the "fireproof" safe when it was opened after a fire. These occurrences are few but convincing. I have also seen what stored ammo does in a fire and kept some of the exploded cases that were found scattered everywhere.

shdwlkr
01-31-2014, 11:41 AM
what do you guys think of Liberty safes made in Utah?

dragon813gt
01-31-2014, 12:09 PM
Drywall for fire protection = I'm not interested. This is just my opinion. I recently ordered a Zanotti safe. They offer no fire protection. But I need one that I can assemble in place since getting a safe into my home is not an option. And the steel used is of a heavier gauge then used on other safes. Zanotti is a RSC like the rest and I know this. If I had the money I would build a vault in my home. But the only feasible spot for one would be in the basement. And we all know what happens to basements in a fire. They become swimming pools.

osteodoc08
01-31-2014, 12:27 PM
what do you guys think of Liberty safes made in Utah?



Very popular and have a decent cost/benefit ratio. Again, these fall under the RSC heading. Their most expensive models are nice, but again, there is no standard for fireproofing and testing that I'm aware of. They each do their own testing with their own criteria to make themselves look good.

My father has a Liberty safe that was in the $4500 neighborhood approx 10 years ago. I hope there is never a fire. Several heirlooms in there.

376Steyr
01-31-2014, 01:16 PM
Doing some back of the envelope calculations, if a fire raises the air temperature around a typical gun safe to just 500 degrees, the interior of the safe will heat up about as fast as if you put an electric space heater inside, turned it on high, and shut the door. In other words, if a fire gets any where near "bonfire" hot, the guns are probably toast, even without smoke and water damage.