mixing foundry lead to get the BHN

[deerspy]

I was looking for a formula or chart or best guess rule of thumb on how to mix foundry lead to get a BHN number I have ordered some lead from Missouri bullet it is 92-6-2 alloy BHN=18 I think. I have LEE 150 gr flat nose and gas checks I think will work for the 30-30 model 94, I also want to load some for 45acp and have a 200 Lyman mold but I think I need a softer bullet BHN of 12 will be using in S&W 625 so what would I buy to mix with the 92-6-2 maybe some ( 10 to 1, 20 to 1, 30 to 1 or 40 to 1 ) your thoughts please.

[btroj]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

Try this, it is exactly what you need

[Echo]

I would mix it 50/50 w/pure, and add 1% Sn. Should make a nice alloy.

[deerspy]

thanks btroj, that is what I was looking for, I had looked at it be for but could not figure out how to use I think I got it now

Echo, are saying mix (50% of 92-6-2) with (50% pure lead) then add 1% tin, so 5lb of 92-6-2 + 5lb pure + 1lb SN for a BHN of 14 would be a pistol alloy

[prs]

Rule of THUMB per RotoMetals:

Basic Rules for Harding Lead-


For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )

Your listing of the elements may be out of order with my usual way of listing lead first, then tin, then antimony; right? Any who, going by RotoMetals guesstimate technique if your alloy is 92PB:6SN:2SB, then expect about 12 BHN. If it is really 92PB:2SN:6SB, then expect about 15. Now, my order may be the one that is unorthodox; I dunno. The antimony is "out of balance" in your alloy and cutting with lead and adding tin to get closer to 95:2:3 might give a more harmonious outcome (I skimp on the expensive tin a bit my self as it adds about $20:00 to a hundred pound batch).

prs

[RickinTN]

deerspy,
Not 1 lb of tin but 1%. In your 10lb of alloy that would be 1.6 ounces of tin.
Rick

[MaryB]

my 5 pound batch using foundry type is 3.61 pounds of lead(or what I can get close to with ingots) and 1.39 pounds(same here whatever is close) of foundry type. Gave my gun dealer 500 45acp cast from these and he loved them. Works great in my 9mm too. I have yet to try it in my Mosin Nagant or 223 bolt gun but it should work. From the calculator I get

Mixed Alloy Tin % Antimony % Arsenic % Copper % Silver % Lead % Weight Est. Hardness
4.17% 6.39% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 89.4% 5.0 15.7

[meeesterpaul]

looks like a great tool but I'm not using it correctly. For example; combining line 32 and 34; how do you do that?

[Forrest r]

12bhn is at top end & 14bhn is overkill for 45acp boolits in a 625. Even with p+ loads and that light 200gr boolit, you would be hard pressed to get 1100+fps. A 12bhn cast hp will not even fully expand (too hard) at those speeds. If a hp with that alloy won't expand at the velocities you can run that bullet/caliber combo, then that alloy will have a hard time expanding/sealing the cylinders & bbl.

imho the bhn of cast boolits being used with pistols/revolvers in 38spl's/45acp's/44spl's or other low pressure calibers is way over the top with the commercial casters. 8bhn to 10bhn will serve 99% of those caliber's needs.

[William Yanda]

5 # + 5#=10 #=160 oz. 3.2 oz of tin would be 2%

OOps. RickinTN already had it covered

[deerspy]

Rick , my bad,if 5# of 92pb-6sb-2sn + 5# of pb + .1# of sn that would give me BHN 11.9
Forrest , I will only be pushing these to 750fps to 800fps for target shooting will use same bullet in my 1911 also for bullseye target shooting only.
would 20 to 1 pb to sn work a BHN 10 or due I need sb added to mix?

[Forrest r]

A plain 20 to 1 alloy is more than enough, I use a 40 to 1 (8bhn) for target bullets that I cast for the 38spl/44spl (hbwc's) & 45acp. SB is ok but I find that it also makes bullets brittle along with making them harder.

A lead/tin alloy makes a shiny bullet that fills out extremely well, some 8bhn bullets I cast for the 45acp (h&g #68 clone target bullets).

94983

Sized to .452 & shot @ target velocities they manage to put holes in the paper.

94984

After a day @ the range shooting a couple hundred target rounds (pictured above) & a couple tight patches later.

94985

Sometimes less is best.

Some interesting reading from 1953, it shows what different hp's will do @ 600/800/1000/1200fps with 40 to 1/20 to 1/10 to 1 alloys.

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/44%20spl%20-%20may%201953%20american%20rifleman.pdf

More alloys & the speeds they were shot at.

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/44%20spl%20-%20oct%201953%20american%20rifleman.pdf

As you can see a 10 to 1 (12bhn alloy) and a 20 to 1 (10bhn alloy) perform at their best in the 1000/1300fps range. They will also perform their best @ sealing bbl's at those pressures/speeds also.

Something to think about:
A 1911 45acp semi-auto is pretty straight forward and very forgiving when it comes to a bullets hardness. Find the right size for it & anything within reason will pretty much work. A revolver on the other hand has 3 different areas that the bullet conforms to (cylinder diameter/forcing cone alignment & bbl gap/the bbl itself). A softer bullet will do better in a revolver at target speeds as it's being manipulated by these 3 areas of the revolver.

IMHO pistol bullets hardness is way overrated, commercial casters are selling bullets with a 18bhn rating. Pure linotype is only 19bhn, coww's are 11bhn to 12bhn and allot of the alloys from them are grainy and make brittle bullets from too much sb & not enough sn. That's why you see allot of casters saying they add sn to their coww's. Try sticking with lead/tin alloys, they will take care of 90+% of your pistol bullet needs. When you start launching them @ warp speeds you can either step up in alloy hardness or simply use a gc.

Good luck

forrest r

[deerspy]

thanks Forrest r, I might just have that magazine in a bunch of old magazines my dad had saved.
I have a colt series 70 1911 and a S&W 625 and could not seam to find a bullet that would work in both most work with just a little leading in the 1911 but every thing I have tried in the S&W 625 leads bad, so I decided I would make my own for punching paper.
I have the lyman 452460 mold hav not used it yet still gathering all things needed.

[Forrest r]

Nice, the 452460 is a good place to start. There's allot of people on this forum that own/use the 625's, you'll get it dialed in.

I use the Mihec #68 clone pictured above in my 1911's & my brothers 1911/625. It's a excellent mold that produces fantastic bullets. Another target bullet mold that I got this year is a cramer 5f, it was designed for the 45acp revolvers. It's a 175gr hollow base swc that's a pure joy to shoot & like the #68 clone, will cut bug holes in targets.

95022

If the 452460 gives you no love figure out why & what you need and have one of the custom mold makers on the website cut you a mold with the style/size bullets you want. You can mix & match bullet styles/designs/sizes/hp's/etc.

forrest r

[deerspy]

Forrest r, that is a nice group, and I sure do like the ideal of hollow base for 45acp in revolver, that makes sense when you think about the .38 spl I use 148gr HBWC
which shoots best in my S&W M14
is the maker cramer have a web site?

[Forrest r]

Cramer molds went out of business decades ago (1930's/40's?). Making hb molds is becoming a lost art. Mihec made hbwc molds for the 32cal/38cal/41cal/44cal & 45cal. The 45cal's were pretty heavy. There was a thread started asking about the posibality of making a lighter hbwc for the 45cal, hence a 200gr/220gr hbwc. Those would be perfect for the 1917's & 625's but that's all the further it has gone so far.

Right now I only have hb molds in a swc for the 44 & 45. I'd love to have a hb swc or 2 for the 38spl. I do cast mihec hbwc's for the 38cal & 44cal also.

forrest r