45 caliber, 350 grns @ 1,300 fps

[offshore44]

So, the wife has a single shot in 45-70 that is newly acquired. I have worked up a load that she shoots rather well. It is a 350 grn round nose flat point that is tooling along at about 1,300 fps, maybe a little faster, but not much. I cast them out of range scrap and a little pewter to help with fill out. The boolits are pretty soft, anyway.

She is thrilled with her new rifle and would like to take it hunting when we go out. It seems that it would work well for our local Black Tailed Deer, and may work on the local Elk at the ranges we hunt at. We rarely get a shot over about 100 yards in the local pucker brush. Occasionally we get a chance at a Black Bear, but it's not something we actively hunt. Sort of a bye-catch thing when it happens.

What's the consensus? Would this work, or should she stick with her 7x57 for Elk and Bear?

[Westwindmike]

I deer hunt here in Tennessee with a Marlin 45-70. I load my Lee 340 gr to about 1250 and get shoulder to shoulder penetration. Works well for deer, but can't say for elk. Good luck to her!

[kootne]

I've shot several elk with a 45/75 using 350 gr. old hard WW at 1350 fps. They don't die as fast as if shot with my '06. With elk, as you probably know, shot placement is imperative, I don't care what caliber is used. So shoot'em where they live and you should be fine. I only ever found one bullert left in anything I shot with that 45/75, a nearly head on shot at about 100 yards. It angled back, broke the last couple ribs and deflected up. I dug it out of her spine a couple inches in front of the hip joint, 39" of penetration measured with the hide already off. A soft bullet probably won't penetrate as far but I think you still will kill them ok if they're hit ok.
kootne

[offshore44]

Thanks for the reply's... She's getting pretty accurate with this thing. 350 @ 1350 is about where the load is at right now. It's good to hear that someone is getting good penetration with that load.

[NSB]

I've shot over fifty deer with the 357mag in a handgun using bullets from 140g to 180g. I can't imagine you'll have any trouble with what you're using. FYI, a lot of the deer were complete pass throughs side to side.

[NVScouter]

100 or less I'd go for it!

[Blammer]

that will thump anything in the woods easily. Go get'em!

[phaessler]

that will thump anything in the woods easily. Go get'em!

I agree....

[offshore44]

Blammer, you crack me up...

That's kinda what I was thinking. My 44 magnum with a 240 @ 1300 works fine with cast, so 100 grains heavier at the same velocity should be just fine as well. Thanks for the reply's folks. This was a sanity check.

I shall turn the wife loose with her new toy next season and we shall see what we shall see. One thing about it, she can pack that rifle around pretty easy. She's small but feisty.

[rexherring]

Shouldn't be a problem, the old government trapdoor loads were just about what you are loading for their carbine. Was used to take down a lot of buffalo. My Ruger BH in .45 Colt loaded with a 255 cast at 1300fps will penetrate a mule deer front to just under the hide in its rear end.

[MT Gianni]

Don't stand in front of it under 200 yards.

[Hogtamer]

that's my lee 7/8 slug load outta my 12 ga! i get a little more speed, but both are freight trains!

[dk17hmr]

Wouldn't think twice about it 100 yards and in. I shoot a 320gr WFN out of my 45lc carbine at 1500fps and have no trouble putting down the biggest jackrabbit around :grin:

[jmort]

If a .45 Colt with a 255 grain SWC will shoot through any deer on a broadside at 950 fps, that will shoot through two or three deer. That is a freight train.

[sharpsguy]

350 gr flatnose at 1300 is a hammer. Deer, bear, elk, no problem. Put it where it needs to go, and the critter won't get up. Down and done.

[sixshot]

Tell Feisty to hit them right & she will be feeding you backstraps the next morning!

Dick

[white eagle]

maybe he shouldn't tell her that Dick he may get in trouble ;)

[offshore44]

[smilie=1: One must be diplomatic when one communicates with the small feisty one. Improperly done, that red-head would feed me MY backstraps for breakfast. Cooked on my own cast iron pans.

Thanks again for all the reply's, guys. I shall tell her to go forth and kill something to eat with confidence.

[Djones]

She's small but feisty.



[smilie=1: One must be diplomatic when one communicates with the small feisty one. Improperly done, that red-head would feed me MY backstraps for breakfast. .



Small Fiesty and a Redhead....I like to call that the triple threat. I have had my run in with that type through the years. You sure dont forget them!

As for her rifle load, she should be just fine on elk. that big boolit will pass right through at close to medium range as you describe.

[GunnyJohn]

I have hunted elk with a 45-70 single shot my brother uses a Marlin guide gun. We both shoot 405 grain pushed by 29 grns AA5744 at around 1400 fps. (don't have a chrony) He shot a cow last year, put two through the boiler room she went a little ways and expired. Upon closer examination, he wasted one bullet. But as he said "cheap insurance". If she's comfortable with it, I say send her out. Good hunting.

[Lonegun1894]

Only thing I would say is that this load is good beyond 200yds IF she knows exactly where it hits, as trajectory will become an issue at some point. I have an H&R BC .45-70, and use the Lee 450FP at 1300-1400fps, so same velocity as you, and also out of range scrap. That load has not stopped in any deer or hog inside of 200yds yet. I have shot it to 350yds on paper just to practice longer than I will hunt, but usually don't hunt past 100 unless it's varmints, or just perfect conditions as with the last (225#) hog I took with it while deer hunting at 175. In the forehead, crushed several inches of spine, and out just to the side of the tail, never to be seen again. She will be fine and eat well if she puts it where it belongs.

And yeah, with that combination of traits, you better be staying on her good side. And if you don't, well, at least you won't suffer long with a .45-70. With my luck, I'll get killed by the infection from a pelletgun...

[Beau Cassidy]

For deer that .45/70 will be good out to 200 yards. The limiting factor is going to be the crappy Marlin trigger pull- at least it is on my .450.

If I can whack a deer at 95 yards with a .44 and get complete pass thru with a launching velocity of 750 FPS then the the .45/70 will for sure do it.

[offshore44]

I've been passing all this info along to the wife. She's pretty jazzed about taking her #3 hunting this year. Thanks for the help!

[Dale53]

Beau;
I did a trigger job on my Marlin 45/70 and it now has a great trigger. It is not hard to do if you have "good hands". Otherwise, have a good, local gunsmith do a trigger job for you. A good trigger is a BIG help whether you are trying to score on a deer or a target.

Good luck.

To the O.P. - the Ruger #3 makes a FINE hunting rifle with the load you have suggested. Good luck to your wife.

Dale53

[quilbilly]

You sound like you are from my neck of the woods. My experience after 25 years of muzzleloader hunting with similar projectiles has shown that a terminal velocity of 950 fps with a projectile that size will turn an elk upside down let alone what it will do to one of our local black-tails or our black bear. At a muzzle velocity of 1250, your retained velocity will be far more than what you need in the brush and jungles west of the Cascades where a 75 yard shot is a long one 95% of the time and often a bayonet will work.

[DougGuy]

I would easily say that load just like it is will take any critter on the North American continent. Griz and Brown included. Of course, shot placement is STILL key and always will be!

Of the deer I have shot with a 300gr XTP in .45 Colt from a short barreled Vaquero, I have only recovered one boolit, and that was out of the second deer it killed from that one shot.. It took a big doe, bank shot off a tree, and into the second doe to stop that boolit.

Many people don't fully understand momentum. That load will shoot slam through an 18" standing pine, and still kill anything that is standing behind it.

[kootne]

Maybe I don't put enough gun powder in my shells but I will say it again. A .45 cal 350 grain bullet at 1350 has never killed anything for me as good as a 180 grain .30/06 bullet. They travel further and die slower. Shot placement is absolutly critical because that wound channel is only 2" across instead of 6". Momentum don't kill elk, you either leak out all the blood or break both front pins or the backbone or you stand a real good chance of losing them. Tactics is important, my theory is the survivors should only know there was a loud noise in the woods. Then a wounded one will go a little ways, lay down and feel sorry for it's self. Your job is to wait till the rest wander off, then slip in and kill it before it knows you are there. If they find out you are there, the adrenalin goes way up and they become about 10 times harder to kill. Hit an unspooked elk in the right place and they die easy, hit spooked one a little off and it's like they are a different species.
kootne

[quilbilly]

A little story about momentum. A few years back I had a muzzleloader cow only tag and was looking for a calf since I was hunting alone and only needed meat for two. Naturally the lead huge cow presented herself broadside at 50 yards stopped and stared. Hmmm. Took the shot with a sabotted 429 cal 265 gr semi wadcutter at about 1500 fps. The last view I had of her before smoke filled the air was her completely off the ground with her feet rotated skyward. That is momentum. She never moved and I wished I had a young friend with a strong back (maybe a weak mind). 525 pound of dressed meat on the hooks at the butcher shop. Yes, shot placement is almost everything but a little momentum can cover up minor errors.

[Alan]

The only reason to ever load a .45-70 hotter than that is to flatten trajectory, not necessarily increase power. It would be fine even on large bears. Now for pachyderms, you would want more bullet and velocity. When Elmer Keith says something is "enough gun", well, it probably is.

[offshore44]

Thanks for the input guys! The wife is pretty jazzed about her new rifle and it's potential game getting abilities. Right now I'm getting a sling set up for her, and a few other details. The front sling link from her Ruger 44 carbine looks like it is a direct fit into the barrel band on the #3, and putting a sling swivel on the butt stock is easy; I have one in the parts drawer. 'Got to fussing about in the reloading room with various ammo pouches from our mil-surp collection and discovered that the Yugo SKS double ammo pouch works pretty well to hold 14 rounds of 45-70 and five 45 ACP magazines. Nice leather as well. I came across some tubes at work that press in check valves ship in. We usually recycle these, but the guys in the shop saved a few for me to play with. The 45-70 cartridge slips into these tubes perfectly, and the rim rests on the top of the tube. When you arrange them in two rows of three and two rows of four, the pouch is perfectly filled with tubes, and the cartridges are presented to easily pull by the rim. The 1911 magazines fit in the other pouch four across and one in front. This setup should keep her ammo stash out of her pockets and easily accessible on her left hip, plus protect the ammo and magazine from damage.

I taught her to shoot with a shooting sling, but the #3 has the barrel band around the barrel and the front of the stock, so that's out for the moment. Maybe later I can talk her into a #1-B style stock and fore end. Using a shooting sling cuts her group sizes by half on her other rifles.

As an aside: The 8mm Mauser pouches are too short to work with the 45-70 round and the 1911 mags. I have another SKS pouch available that I think I'll set up for my 458 win mag. I load it up like a 45-90 with paper patched. You know how one thing leads to another... Gotta love those 45 caliber shutzenboomers.

[monge]

More than enough horse power I have shot bear with a similar load no issues keep them in the boiler room and eneything will go down!

[geargnasher]

I get that out of my NEF .45 Colt, 340 grain Lee at 1320 fps. Haven't killed anything with it yet but by golly it smacks HARD and expands like a champ with 10-ish BHN sticky WW. I for dang sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end unless standing behind some A-500 plate.

Gear

[bearcove]

The only reason to ever load a .45-70 hotter than that is to flatten trajectory, not necessarily increase power. It would be fine even on large bears. Now for pachyderms, you would want more bullet and velocity. When Elmer Keith says something is "enough gun", well, it probably is.

If you want to kill a large bear that doesn't know it ,that's one thing. One that knows your there and is coming to stomp you ,that's a different story.

Trajectory is NOT the only reason.

[bearcove]

But on topic of OP 350 at 1300 will work great for hunting.

[armorer59]

+1 That's a good load. Might consider the Lyman 332 grn hollow point mold as well.


Don't stand in front of it under 200 yards.

[nanuk]

I get that out of my NEF .45 Colt, 340 grain Lee at 1320 fps.
Gear

I really want one of those.... <sniff sniff>

[nanuk]

OMG.... you CANNOT kill a deer with a 45/70!!!!

it is NOT a MAGNUM you know!

Deer have gotten so much tougher in the last 30 years that ONLY a Magnum is to be used now.... and with J-words!!!

You'll only scare it off, if'n you DO bruise it up a bit!

No Way.... get that thing loaded up and call it a 45 2.1 MAGNUM and THEN go hunting!!!

BWAHAHAHAAAAA

[offshore44]

OMG.... you CANNOT kill a deer with a 45/70!!!!

it is NOT a MAGNUM you know!

Deer have gotten so much tougher in the last 30 years that ONLY a Magnum is to be used now.... and with J-words!!!

You'll only scare it off, if'n you DO bruise it up a bit!

No Way.... get that thing loaded up and call it a 45 2.1 MAGNUM and THEN go hunting!!!

BWAHAHAHAAAAA

That right there is too funny... I did the exact opposite with my 458 Win Mag. I took to calling it a 45 x 2 1/2 Belted Express because it was a conversation killer to call it a 458 Win Mag. 405 grn paper patched at about 1800 fps is the sweet spot for accuracy and has way more thump than I'll ever need. The kids and the grand-kids will still be shooting that one when I'm long gone. It looks like the wife's #3 is going to turn out the same way. There's just something about a 45...

[hickfu]

The 45-70 loaded up with a 405gr soft cast boolit going 1300 to 1400 fps almost wiped out the American Buffalo..... Im pretty sure you can shoot anything in North America with a 45-70 and be positive it will drop!

I have a 1895SBL Co-Pilot and shoot a 430gr Hard cast at 1600fps and would not hesitate to shoot anything in N.A.


Doc

[HollandNut]

There's just something about a 45...

aahh two of us at least , no rifle or revolver or pistol smaller than 45 is worthy in my book .. HHMM maybe I should call the Lott a 45x2.79 Express .. My fav is the 462560 Lyman ..

[w5pv]

When looking at movie clips it is hard to judge the action but I saw what was suppose to have been a kill on a griz that was standing on his hind legs you could see the spray from the boolit that went through it.This was suppose to have been a 45/70.If there no trickery involved and everything was on the up&up it did a number on it.