should I buy a new lever? [Archive]

9w1911

01-26-2014, 12:58 PM

Ok i have been craving a new lever and I get some extra income in a week, I can afford to purchase one should I find a good deal.
I already own a Remlin in 44mag. So I wanted to either get a big one like a 45-70, the ported guide gun is what I would get. I would need the whole loading set up for 45-70 no big deal. Or a few months ago I almost traded for a Rossi lever and about 800 rounds of 38/357. I think this Rossi has an octo barrel, but I do not know much about them. I will need reloading stuff for 38/357.
Now what says the board, the cost for the 357 plus ammo was 700.00 and the 45-70 I can find here at a lgs is 650.00 ?

junkpile

01-26-2014, 01:30 PM

You'll spend a lot more feeding that 45/70 than a 357.

What are you planning to use it for? Hunting? or paper punching?

I'm also looking for a 45/70, but trying to convince myself that a 30/30 will be enough. But, I'm in big bear country.

FredBuddy

01-26-2014, 01:36 PM

I have a Marlin 357 carbine and a marlin 1895 CB 45-70. I reload both and shoot and enjoy the 45-70 the most. Where you are, the 45-70 will afford some serious hunting, too.

9w1911

01-26-2014, 01:42 PM

I am a paper puncher, not a hunter,however I am in the backcountry often. I am often in the Cascades and Sierra Nevada and Rockies.
Eventually I think I will get both over the lifetime, but for now ts this choice.
I would also consider a 30/30 but for now I am looking at the 45-70. The cartridge has a lot of history. Lots of guys do love their 357s!!
Now I will add if I were in Alaska one would be called my rifle and one would be called my plinker, lol you need a 45-70 in AK

robertbank

01-26-2014, 01:51 PM

Get the .357 Rossi. They are great little guns, dirt cheap to feed and loads of fun. If you are in the Pan Handle you likely have lots of small deer that would fall to the .357mag. Not sure how far they range up the Coast from Pr. Rupert.

Take Care

Bob

Pb2au

01-26-2014, 03:58 PM

Go for the 357 rossi.
They are fine shooters at a decent price point. The only downside I've seen on the 357's is that they an be sensitive to OAL. But, that makes a lot of sense considering the 92 action. So, just monitor that, clean it thoroughly when you get it and you should be good to go.
The answer is always buy another lever gun.

9w1911

01-26-2014, 06:05 PM

The answer is always buy another lever gun.--I agree just dint know what to get next a big calibre or a 357, if i can get a good price on the Rossi I will. sight unseen what do you guys think I need to offer being that it has mixed 800 rounds of 38/357, I think the guy wanted 700.00

also as far as oal, the 1894c Marlin in 44 mag: thats an odyssey Id rather not partake in ever again

I love levers

ps: either for the 45-70 or 357 I intend to not shoot jwords out of it EVER!!!

starmac

01-26-2014, 09:16 PM

personally I would rather have a 45/70. I said a instead of the, because you are looking at a ported gg which as much as I like my gg I sure don't want it ported. I have never had the hankering for a 357, but if one popped up with 800 rounds of ammo for 700, I guess I would own one.

Bullshop Junior

01-26-2014, 09:20 PM

I would get the 357. I had one in a marlin and loved it till it fell apart. Litteraly shot 10s of thousands of rouds though it. I now have a rossi in 454 casull and i love the the little 92. Its so handy, and slick and just a hoot for what ever.

dverna

01-26-2014, 10:59 PM

I can reload .38's for less than $3/box. You are getting $50 worth of ammo as I see it - unless you can sell the ammo for more than the cost to reload. The .38/.357 is very inexpensive to shoot and easy to reload.

The .45/70 can be loaded light or heavy and is blast to shoot. Shoot a ported gun (or be next to someone shooting one) before deciding to get one.

They are two totally different calibers and you need to decide what you are looking for.

For fun plinking, I would go with the .38/.357. I have three of them. No .45/70 yet but two .30/30's and thinking about a .35/30 or .38-55.

Don Verna

9w1911

01-27-2014, 02:48 AM

That makes sense factory ammo vs the cost of the reloads and I can plink with my 44mag, 14grns of 2400 or 10grns of unique are my pet loads, the 45-70 I am looking at is the ported guide gun version I think it has a 6 round mag, I have fired one before and felt like it was fine, not sure though they were reloads and maybe not full house
I had not looked at any other 45-70 brands yet

9w1911

01-27-2014, 02:52 AM

something like:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/72473#

WilliamDahl

01-27-2014, 03:02 AM

I subscribe to the "artillery shooting" philosophy -- I like a .45-70. But, then again, around here I don't have an option for long range shooting anyway. If you are going to just be punching holes in pieces of paper, go with the .38/.357. It's cheap to reload for and the brass is easy to find even if you have to buy it. The .45-70 brass is a bit uncommon (I've never found any in my range pick up), so you tend to be a bit more careful about collecting it after you shoot.

Even a hot .357mag load it going to comfortable to shoot in a rifle. A hot .45-70 load can get noticeable, but even at Trapdoor velocities, it can handle any North American game and is more of a "push" than a "kick".

Lonegun1894

01-27-2014, 05:30 AM

Since you said you're more of a target shooter than a hunter, if your shooting is inside of 150yds, or maybe 200yds, I would say get the .357 instead of the .45-70. No reason to beat up yourself or your wallet feeding a .45-70 while a .357 will go through paper just as well. I have a .357 Rossi and a .45-70 H&R, and while both are very accurate and a lot of fun to shoot, the .357 gets used a lot more both for paper and for game. There is nothing here in Texas that I don't feel comfortable going after with a .357Mag ( I also go hog hunting with a .22LR pistol though, so "consider the source" as my close friends say about me), and while I have guns in calibers capable of much longer range, I prefer to stalk as close as possible because I like hunting, and not just shooting. My .357 Rossi 20" easily stays on a 6" plate at 200yds once you figure out the drop, and did 2-2.5"@100 for 10rds as of last week. So if I get inside of 200yds of a hog or deer, and fail to bring home meat, it's because I didn't shoot for whatever reason. Usually that is because I hate shooting at moving animals so will hold my fire til they stop, and they don't always stop. Now paper doesn't pose that kind of problem, so it isn't an issue on the range. My H&R BC .45-70 will do slightly smaller groups 1.5-2" @100, or 4-5"@200, but fires a 450gr boolit instead of the 158gr (actual is 164 after sizing/lubing/GCing), and the .45-70 uses a bit more powder, so the .357 is cheaper to shoot even when being used with my cast that I load myself. Call it 3x .357 boolits for the same weight as a single one for the .45-70, if using my specific load.

Nrut

01-27-2014, 05:16 PM

ported GG's
Own one of each, shot higher end loads and could see no difference in recoil..
Sold the ported one because of the noise..

Rustyleee

01-27-2014, 05:36 PM

THE '92 clone would serve you best. Cheap, handy, easy to feed, and if you get the tune up DVD from STEVESGUNZ.COM it will run slicker than any levergun you've ever seen. A .357 with 180 gr cast from a rifle takes things to a whole new level.

TXGunNut

01-28-2014, 12:15 AM

The answer is always YES! I have a GG and I'm still looking for a 92 in .357 but for a fun gun the .357 would get my vote. My GG shoots mostly hunting loads and to be quite honest it's not much fun to shoot. Light loads are more pleasant but still have a bigger impact on your lead & powder supply. Brass for the 357 or 38 can often be had for the asking, 45/70 a bit harder to come by.

9w1911

01-28-2014, 06:37 PM

WilliamDahl

01-29-2014, 05:55 AM

good points guys, didnt think about the case size and powder usage just for plinking with the 45-70
since I can plink with my 44mag should I maybe consider a 44-40? kinda ride the fence between the 45-70 and 357?

Have you created a reloading costs spreadsheet? Do it and plug in the numbers for reloading the various calibers. Assuming $1/lb for lead and the powders and primers that I have bought in the last couple of years, it currently costs me $5.70 / 50-rounds to reload .45-70 (405 gr Lee cast bullet) for "plinking" loads of 1203 ft-lbs. Even with a load in the 3000-3900 ft-lb range, it is no more than $11.50 per 50-rounds.

The .357 mag loads (revolver) that I currently have listed on my spreadsheet work out to be a max of $2.91 per 50-rounds and 554 ft-lbs. With a rifle, you could get probably 200 fps more with the exact same load. Customizing your load for a rifle with slower powder might even get you more velocity.

A "plinker" .44mag load (10gr Alliant Red Dot / Promo, 180 gr cast bullet) will cost about $3.44 per 50-rounds and give around 1410 fps / 794 ft-lbs in a revolver.

Run the numbers with some of the data from http://www.handloads.com and the costs of the reloading components that you have on hand and decide for yourself whether it makes economical sense to buy another firearm for punching holes in paper. And then, after calculating whether it makes economical sense, factor in the "fun factor" and assign any value to it that you want so that you can do what you wanted to do in the first place anyway. :)

9w1911

01-29-2014, 03:59 PM

ah that is great Will thanks!!!!!!

badbob454

01-29-2014, 06:48 PM

45/70 fun to shoot , hope recoil doesn't bother you.....buy It

WilliamDahl

01-30-2014, 02:02 AM

45/70 fun to shoot , hope recoil doesn't bother you.....buy It

Full power .45-70 loads can be punishing in a light lever-action, but lighter loads are more of a push than a kick. Sure, they're not a 110 gr powderpuff .38 special, but they really aren't bad at all.

starmac

01-30-2014, 04:08 AM

Everybody is worried about the difference of cost to reload between the calibers, lol if it was all about money, I wouldn't own a gun at all.

WilliamDahl

01-30-2014, 03:45 PM

Everybody is worried about the difference of cost to reload between the calibers, lol if it was all about money, I wouldn't own a gun at all.

Using the values that I listed above, there is about a $0.53 per 50-round box difference in loading for .44mag and .357mag. As such, it would 1320 50-round boxes of ammo (i.e. 66,000 rounds) before you could justify financially the cheaper reloading of the .357 mag vs the .44 mag that he already owns.

As such, *economically* it is going to be difficult to justify. That's where the "fun factor" gets factored into the equation to justify whatever you wanted to do in the first place. :)

As they say, "A .45-70 if for when you don't want to ask yourself, 'Did I bring enough gun?'"......... :)

starmac

01-30-2014, 04:33 PM

Yup, it is all about the fun factor, a type of disease, that only has one cure. lol

jonp

01-31-2014, 12:56 AM

If you get the 357 you will need at least one but probably a pair of BH 357Mag's to go with it. Trust me, you will end up with them.

9w1911

01-31-2014, 01:17 AM

could end up with a 454 casull now in a Rossi, thoughts?

::update:: no reply to date from the 357 lever Rossi guy, so.. down to a 45-70 at the LGS or,,

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 01:38 AM

could end up with a 454 casull now in a Rossi, thoughts?

::update:: no reply to date from the 357 lever Rossi guy, so.. down to a 45-70 at the LGS or,,

I would still go with the .45-70. More powerful, less pressure, brass more readily available. If you are going to go up from your current .44 mag, then go all the way. You can always download it to .454 casull or .44 mag energy, but you can't go the other way with the lesser rounds.

You might find that you would be better served with a .38 / .357 model and a .45-70 model while also selling your existing .44 mag rifle. The .44 mag mission can be filled by low powered .45-70 rounds.

9w1911

01-31-2014, 01:44 AM

good points William,,I was amazed at the Casull pressure at 6000 jeez!

starmac

01-31-2014, 02:29 AM

You can always run colt loads in the 454 too. There is a nice looking one posted in the swapping and selling right now.

Bzcraig

01-31-2014, 02:56 AM

Well I see I showed up a little late but............357 is cool, 45-70 is Legendary. Do you wanna be cool or Legendary? Just sayin.

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 07:59 AM

You can always run colt loads in the 454 too. There is a nice looking one posted in the swapping and selling right now.

But he already has a .44 mag, so he's got the mid range power already covered. The .454 Casull is just a slight step up from the .44 mag that he already has. Using the Buffalo Bore loadings, you get the following:

Caliber
Bullet Weight (gr)
Velocity (fps)
Kinetic Energy (ft-lbs)

.357 mag (rifle)
180
1851
1369

.357 mag (rifle)
158
2153
1625

.357 mag (rifle)
125
2298
1465

.44 mag (rifle)
305
1779
2142

.44 mag (rifle)
270
1802
1946

.44 mag (rifle)
300
1770
2086

.44 mag (7.5" Ruger)
340
1478
1649

.454 Casull
300
1650
1813

.454 Casull
360
1425
1623

.45-70
300
2350
3678

.45-70
405
2000
3597

.45-70
350
2150
3591

.45-70
430
1925
3537

.45-70
500
1625
2931

I used the Buffalo Bore ammo as an example since they pretty much get pretty much the most out of a cartridge that you can get and still be safe and they make ammo for all the calibers. I figure this makes it pretty much "comparing apples to apples".

What this tells me is that the .454 Casull is just a slight step up from what he can already achieve in the .44 mag, so it does not really give him anymore capability than he already has. The .357 mag opens up the entire realm of low velocity plinker loads while also being able to be loaded to respectable defense loads or even for whitetail deer. The .45-70 opens up an entirely new realm of energy while also being able to be downloaded to the level of the .44mag or .454 Casull.

Personally, I suspect he would be better served with a .357 mag and .45-70 leveraction and selling his existing .44mag. I definitely don't see having a .44 mag AND a .454 Casull as being practical since the .454 Casull just provides marginal performance improvements over the .44 mag.

9w1911

01-31-2014, 12:42 PM

I definitely don't see having a .44 mag AND a .454 Casull as being practical ---I agree as well, there is a member selling his 454 and its a pretty good deal, but I dont want to sell my 44 mag so with that 45-70 looks like the way to go, now just need to decide do I get the 20 incher or the ported guide gun. Whats the deal with a 444 or even the 450? Just curious
There is a Marlin here in town for 600.00 in 357 on arms list as well.

starmac

01-31-2014, 02:21 PM

Don't want to go strictly by practical, or you will just keep the 44. lol As far as levers go I have the 45/70, 45 colt 308 me, 30/30 and the 300 savage. I will eventually get a 35 rem, 358 and a 356, nothing practical about them, I just want and like them lol. I personally would go the 45/70 route, the 45 colt is the least practical one I own, and only picked it up because it is a cowboy and was cheap at the time.

9w1911

01-31-2014, 03:03 PM

oh starmac for certain, I would like to consider myself a budding lever collector, not so much the older ones, but more so getting different calibers and the fun of casting , loading and figuring out another lever. You guys are convincing me to go 45-70 it seems like it is the nest logical step, unless a 444 shows up :)

Bullshop Junior

01-31-2014, 03:11 PM

could end up with a 454 casull now in a Rossi, thoughts?

::update:: no reply to date from the 357 lever Rossi guy, so.. down to a 45-70 at the LGS or,,

I have a Rossi 454. If the price is right BUY IT!!

Bullshop Junior

01-31-2014, 03:16 PM

But he already has a .44 mag, so he's got the mid range power already covered. The .454 Casull is just a slight step up from the .44 mag that he already has. Using the Buffalo Bore loadings, you get the following:

Caliber
Bullet Weight (gr)
Velocity (fps)
Kinetic Energy (ft-lbs)

.357 mag
180
1300
783

.357 mag
158
1475
763

.357 mag
125
1700
802

.44 mag
305
1325
1189

.44 mag
340
1478
1649

.454 Casull
300
1650
1813

.454 Casull
360
1425
1623

.45-70
300
2350
3678

.45-70
405
2000
3597

.45-70
350
2150
3591

.45-70
430
1925
3537

.45-70
500
1625
2931

I used the Buffalo Bore ammo as an example since they pretty much get pretty much the most out of a cartridge that you can get and still be safe and they make ammo for all the calibers. I figure this makes it pretty much "comparing apples to apples".

What this tells me is that the .454 Casull is just a slight step up from what he can already achieve in the .44 mag, so it does not really give him anymore capability than he already has. The .357 mag opens up the entire realm of low velocity plinker loads while also being able to be loaded to respectable defense loads or even for whitetail deer. The .45-70 opens up an entirely new realm of energy while also being able to be downloaded to the level of the .44mag or .454 Casull.

Personally, I suspect he would be better served with a .357 mag and .45-70 leveraction and selling his existing .44mag. I definitely don't see having a .44 mag AND a .454 Casull as being practical since the .454 Casull just provides marginal performance improvements over the .44 mag.

You have to remember, those 454 loads are shown from a pistol. What is it they say, 25 FPS extra for every inch of barrel, plus no cylinder gap. The 454 in a carbine is more then "Mid Range". Id rather have my rossi in my hand then a 45/70 if I was facing a charging bear.

robertbank

01-31-2014, 04:04 PM

for .357 and 44 mag I found I gained about 200 fps when I went from a six inch revolver to a 20 carbine. Same with my 9MM Carbine. Your mileage may vary.

Bob

9w1911

01-31-2014, 05:19 PM

well there is no question the 454 and the 45-70 can take down some large animals, read last night a man killed a charging griz from a pistol with one shot from a 454

**the deal on the Rossi in this board is a good deal should it last till next week a may buy it and a 4570 LOLOLOL I cant but I might bight the bullet and live on Ramen noodles this month

DRNurse1

01-31-2014, 05:21 PM

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 07:36 PM

You have to remember, those 454 loads are shown from a pistol. What is it they say, 25 FPS extra for every inch of barrel, plus no cylinder gap. The 454 in a carbine is more then "Mid Range". Id rather have my rossi in my hand then a 45/70 if I was facing a charging bear.

Agreed, but that is what I had from their web site to work with. I believe that they were using a 7.5" barrel Ruger. I've updated the tables with the information that I could get from their site on the handgun rounds in rifles. The information was not obvious at first glance, but I was able to find it for some of the rounds. I could not find any rifle info for the .454 Casull.

The .444 Marlin and .450 Marlin ammo at Buffalo Bore has slightly less ft-lbs than the .45-70. If you want a noticeable increase over the .45-70, you would need to go to the .50 Alaskan. They have 4 loadings for it that range from 3799-4406 ft-lbs.

9w1911

01-31-2014, 09:08 PM

haha I think I can top out at the 45-70

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 09:38 PM

haha I think I can top out at the 45-70

From a "practical" standpoint, the .357 can be loaded down to the point where you could take a squirrel or a rabbit without much wasted meat all the way up to whitetail deer and many hogs. The .45-70 can be loaded down to the point where it could take whitetails with minimal meat waste all the way up to anything on the North American continent. I wouldn't necessarily choose it for an angry bull elephant, but I'm suspect that with proper shot placement, it might be *possible*. There really is a wide range of loadings for both calibers and I suspect that with the two of them, you pretty much have everything covered. Now, if you live somewhere that you might be taking 500 yd shots, maybe a lighter high velocity round would be more appropriate. There is no one round that is perfect for every type of game or situation.

9w1911

01-31-2014, 09:53 PM

Well I would like to look at that guys 357 Rossi, but no response so I am letting it go haha, now I am pretty much like a miner on payday night in Virginia City, I'm not sure what girl I will end up with but I will end up with a girl :) if you guys get my drift, Virginia City, wild west, payday = hookers

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 10:01 PM

Well I would like to look at that guys 357 Rossi, but no response so I am letting it go

Did he respond at all? Sometimes email gets mistakenly routed to the spam folder on some email accounts. Sometimes the wording of your email or even your email address leads someone to think that it is either spam or a scammer.

Is this the .357 Rossi that is listed on Armslist in Reno for $600?

9w1911

01-31-2014, 10:05 PM

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 10:11 PM

no actually the 600 lever in Reno was a 1894c Marlin, same as I have. I will give it another shot and see, he and I had contact earlier over trading items and i could not get to the level he wanted to make a trade, so he may just be interested in a trade

OK, my mistake. I didn't look at the ad close enough, I just saw the price and "357" and figured it was the one you were talking about.

The 1894C Marlin was listed there yesterday, so unless he dropped the price and relisted it, it hasn't been there long.

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 10:23 PM

Of course another option might be to go with a Marlin 336 in .30-30. You can load it down to "mouse fart" loads if you so desire or all the way to deer and hogs. They tend to be fairly easy to find and are cheaper than the .357 version. The brass is available, but not as readily available (or as cheap) as .38 and .357 brass.

9w1911

01-31-2014, 10:29 PM

yep I wonder if he sold it that fast, if he did then we know the competition around here is high, and it is that intense here if you want powder/primers/22LR good luck!

Bullshop Junior

01-31-2014, 10:32 PM

From a "practical" standpoint, the .357 can be loaded down to the point where you could take a squirrel or a rabbit without much wasted meat all the way up to whitetail deer and many hogs. The .45-70 can be loaded down to the point where it could take whitetails with minimal meat waste all the way up to anything on the North American continent. I wouldn't necessarily choose it for an angry bull elephant, but I'm suspect that with proper shot placement, it might be *possible*. There really is a wide range of loadings for both calibers and I suspect that with the two of them, you pretty much have everything covered. Now, if you live somewhere that you might be taking 500 yd shots, maybe a lighter high velocity round would be more appropriate. There is no one round that is perfect for every type of game or situation.

Ive seen the 45/70 shoot leanth wise through a moose. Id face down a eliphant with it.

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 10:46 PM

yep I wonder if he sold it that fast, if he did then we know the competition around here is high, and it is that intense here if you want powder/primers/22LR good luck!

I've got plenty of powder and primers, so that doesn't worry me. Probably have enough lead to last me a long while also. Probably only have 1K or so rounds of .22LR, so I don't shoot any of those rifles or handguns anymore. If the price ever gets back down where I can buy .22LR ammo for cheaper than I can reload any of my other calibers, then I'll consider shooting them again.

Using Red Dot in a .30-30 with a 170gr lead bullet, you can go from 898 fps (4.5gr) to 1317 fps (8.5gr) according to this link (http://www.gmdr.com/lever/3030w170_dat.htm).

That makes for some pretty cheap shooting.

I suspect that you could use a lighter bullet and even load it down further. Might make for a pretty quiet round.

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 10:50 PM

Ive seen the 45/70 shoot leanth wise through a moose. Id face down a eliphant with it.

When I was your age, I probably would have too. These days, I'm older, wiser, AND SLOWER and would prefer something with a significant amount of "overkill". :)

starmac

01-31-2014, 11:12 PM

When I was your age, I probably would have too. These days, I'm older, wiser, AND SLOWER and would prefer something with a significant amount of "overkill". :)

I tend to think if a stout load in a 45/70 won't get the job done, it is best to hide. lol

9w1911

01-31-2014, 11:13 PM

I have no problem buying a 30-30 :)

9w1911

01-31-2014, 11:25 PM

129.00 less than my LGS:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=391182568#PIC

Bullshop Junior

01-31-2014, 11:30 PM

I tend to think if a stout load in a 45/70 won't get the job done, it is best to hide. lol

Thats kinda my thinking as well.

starmac

01-31-2014, 11:30 PM

There is a rossi 357 listed up here for 440. It supposedly has only 50 rounds thru the tube, what do they usually sell for.

Bullshop Junior

01-31-2014, 11:33 PM

Thats about normal price. I got my 454 for $350 but its rather beat up.

WilliamDahl

01-31-2014, 11:33 PM

I have no problem buying a 30-30 :)

They're about $100-200 cheaper than the .357 and for that price, you can buy a lot of brass. I prefer straight wall cases for ease of reloading instead of the bottleneck ones, but with the light loads, you can probably get by with just neck sizing the .30-30 brass after you've shot it once. The Lee molds go from 113 to 200 gr, so you've got a nice choice for reloading. A 113 gr cast bullet should make for a nice cheap reload. That puts the lead consumption right there with the lightest .38/.357 Lee mold of 105 gr. The advantage of the .38/.357 bullets though is that Lee makes a 6-cavity mold which increasing your casting throughput noticeably.

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/rifle-bullet-molds/bullet-mold-double-cavity/

MGD

02-01-2014, 09:07 AM

Yes always buy more guns. If deciding between two, get both and eat beans for a month. We all could stand a little less food, and more guns.

9w1911

02-01-2014, 11:43 AM

get both and eat beans for a month--I might just do this, if i can find another job or client, I am a web designer, I can afford both, still have to eat beans, but my girlfriend can cook some mean refried black beans

Lonegun1894

02-01-2014, 02:04 PM

See, this is pertinent information you left out previously. Whatever you do, keep her around, as cooked beans taste MUCH better than dry. But now you need to find her a gun too, so you better find something she likes too...

9w1911

02-01-2014, 03:09 PM

9w1911

02-01-2014, 03:10 PM

btw first time I tried her black beans I told her, Im done you got me, lol I love black beans

starmac

02-01-2014, 03:27 PM

I do need to find her a gun lol she has a problematic ex as well so I am in the market for a 357 snub for her, she is pretty scared of guns but once this jerk came back around she has a want for a pistol , some men just dont understand no

The old style, tried and true attitude adjustment, works as good today as it ever did.
In self defense of course. lol

9w1911

02-01-2014, 04:16 PM

deleted off topic

9w1911

02-01-2014, 07:40 PM

deleted off topic

9w1911

02-01-2014, 09:10 PM

Update: possible 450 Marlin Guide Gun from a wanted add I placed in Armslist

**well brass in the 450 looks like a tough get and live rounds are expensive, the cartridge of the 450 just priced me out of this I think

I am sticking to either 357 or 45/70

tcrocker

02-01-2014, 09:33 PM

I hate the ported rifles there ok if you just shoot targets but if you are going to hunt with it I'd go non ported. those ports are just too loud.

WilliamDahl

02-01-2014, 09:54 PM

GabbyM

02-01-2014, 10:26 PM

I think you need t get a 30-30 and stop fooling around with those BB guns.

Buy a late production Win 94 AE with ugly wood.

You'll need five or six hundred bucks. It should look like it's never been shot.
Then you are good. Buy a RCBS 150 grain mold and an 8 lb jug of AA4064.
I use the Saeco #316 but that is from before there price went up.
Point blank the bullet hits at top of front bead. 100 yards POI is in middle of front dot.
I shoot a BHN #9 boolit at 2040 fps that frags on impact. Toughen the alloy up for medium to big game.
Then pack a 38 Special K frame at your side. God will smile down upon you brother.

Sans the Win 30-30 if that's not your thrill. A FN Win M70 Featherweight in 308 win. They sell plastic stocks but do not look to me to recommend such a thing. 6 and some pounds with a twelve twist barrel in 30 caliber. I've an MP 180 grain HP mold here that can turn such a rile into a slayer. I shoot it from a 30-06. From a 12 twist 308 it's 2,200 fps 180 grain hollow point. One in the pipe and five in the box. But it's whatever trips your trigger. Hell I can hit pie plates at 100 with my K frame revolvers.

9w1911

02-01-2014, 11:21 PM

I love that 44 cartridge, something about it

WilliamDahl

02-02-2014, 06:31 AM

I love that 44 cartridge, something about it

Then get the Lee .433 Round Ball mold (122gr), cast and resize it to .430" for the light weight plinker loads in your .44mag. You'll spend about half as much on lead as the lightest normal cast bullets. And get the .45-70 if you think you need a heavy hitter cartridge.

Sometimes, a person needs to be able to make a decision and act on it quickly or someone else will buy it instead. If a person can't do that, perhaps it would be best if they just decided what they want and place an order for it at either their LGS or one of the online stores.

9w1911

02-02-2014, 12:00 PM

If a person can't do that, perhaps it would be best if they just decided what they want and place an order for it at either their LGS or one of the online stores. --I agree

HiVelocity

02-02-2014, 12:49 PM

]should I buy a new lever?

Why, "Yes", every chance you get.............. lol!

HV

enoch59

02-03-2014, 12:49 AM

Don't buy the 30/30. They are anemic too middle of the road. I've always loved my .357 and I wish I hadn't had all the problems I had with the Rossi I owned. I also have Marlins in 44 and 444. I am sooo happy that I bought the 444 and I love feeding it every chance I get. To throw huge bullets downrange at paper or at meat should be every man's dream come true. I can take my triple 4 anywhere, anytime and it will always be enough gun period. I keep my 44 CL in my safe to probably trade for another .357 if I can ever find a Marlin. You can have the Rossi's . They're reputation for competence if you ever need to send something back is sorely lacking. Check them out before you buy. Buy Marlin and you'll have a rifle that will be with you until the end because you can care for them. They are very user friendly. So, buy big and get the 45/70. Also get it ported. My 444 has a reputation for breaking shoulders with the loads I run thru her but mine kicks like a well mannered .357 because she's ported. If you do get the .357 then remember this, 158g Gold dots over 7.8g Power Pistol = DEAD DEER !

WilliamDahl

02-03-2014, 06:20 AM

Don't buy the 30/30. They are anemic too middle of the road.

You did notice that I proposed the .30-30 as a low end load that could be loaded down to squirrels and rabbits or as high as whitetail deer, right? Both the .30-30 and the .38/.357 serve the same low to medium power niche, but it's probably easier to find a .30-30 than a .38/.357 one. For a lower power niche rifle, the .38/.357 would be my first choice, but the .30-30 would be a close second. Both can be reloaded in plinker loads rather cheaply, but the .30-30 has a bit higher power potential. Where the .30-30 leaves off, the .45-70 picks up and continues up to anything you might walk this continent. There is some overlap on energy with the various loads, of course. And unless he gets rid of his .44mag, he covers the upper part of the .30-30 energy range with it also. The .30-30 can get you up to around 2000-2100 ft-lbs. A .357 in a rifle might get you to 1400 ft-lbs and a .44mag probably around 2000 ft-lbs.

Kinetic Energy = bullet-weight-in-grains * velocity * velocity / 450437

The 450437 is the rounded result of "2 * 7000 * 32.1740486" used to convert weight to mass and the "1/2" part of the Kinetic Energy equation.

Look at the reloading manuals and on the handloads.com site to see various loadings for the different calibers and you will have an idea of what is the most you can achieve from a particular caliber. You can always go lower and create some rather anemic "mouse fart" loads if you so desire, but you need to be a bit concerned about whether the bullet even leaves the barrel if you go too slow.

9w1911

02-03-2014, 12:38 PM

WilliamDahl

02-03-2014, 02:57 PM

its an odd position to have a rifle that is so middle ground in my 44 that it bleeds over to 357 and up 30-30, leaves me with the 44 for mid to low and now I need a big lever for the top :)

***I have always wanted a 444, in Cabelas here in Reno stopped by with the girlfriend to look at stuff, she needed p-cord, so I stopped by the gun library , they had a 444 w the cross bolt safety, for 399.00 ugh it was gone when I went back 48hrs later

Like I said, sometimes you need to be able to make a decision quickly and act upon it.

The .444 Marlin is a step up from the .44 mag and you can use the same bullets, but it is no .45-70. There's just something satisfying about being able to toss 400-500 gr cast bullets downrange. The question might be "what you need" vs "what you want". Depending upon the terrain around your area and the game, it might even be that a lever action does not serve you that well (i.e. if you need really long shots).

robertbank

02-03-2014, 03:12 PM

Well we could all hope for the Model 95 to be resurrected. I would love to have it in .303 Brit. The cartridge has taken everything from small Deer to Elephant and shot more moose in N.A. than any other cartridge.

Take Care

Bob

9w1911

02-03-2014, 05:13 PM

mind made up 45-70 here I come,
unless I cave and buy this M1 carbine
may get both

starmac

02-03-2014, 06:31 PM

You can't go wrong with a 45/70, there is just not much you can't do with one.

enoch59

02-03-2014, 11:01 PM

Right on. I have the 444 because that is what was dropped in my lap and I jumped on it. If that wasn't the case I would have gone with the 45/70. You will love getting involved with loading's in the 50+ grain category and tossing those big ole cast bullets at monsters that roam our forests and possibly around the world. Your gun might just open up a whole new world to you as far as hunting and traveling goes. Great decision. I'm happy for you.

9w1911

02-03-2014, 11:31 PM

thanks for all the input guys, it will be the 45-70 unless the guy with the 450 comes back with a super good deal for brass, ammo rifle and die set

9w1911

02-04-2014, 12:21 PM

850 for a used Marlin 450, with some brass, and a die set, kinda steep right?

starmac

02-04-2014, 02:57 PM

Steep for around here, I do see some GGuns priced at that or more, but they usually have some extras, like the happy trigger kit, bear proof extractor, large loop lever or some sort of peep or ghost ring sights. For some reason I never caught on to the 450 thing.

Bullshop Junior

02-04-2014, 02:58 PM

I like the 450 but wouldnt pay that.

9w1911

02-05-2014, 09:22 PM

price was lowered significantly :)

starmac

02-06-2014, 12:32 AM

Did it get low enough, curious minds wants to know. lol

9w1911

02-06-2014, 01:49 AM

Yes it did :) kind sir!!

Also it is a JM branded and it had not been fired much, I am happy today, but I just love Marlins. I appreciate all the help here too.

ps it came with an XS rail mount if any wants to trade, I need to check what size usps box it fits in

Bagdadjoe

02-08-2014, 09:05 AM

I can reload .38's for less than $3/box. You are getting $50 worth of ammo as I see it -
Don Verna
800 rounds of resized and expanded brass, 800 already cast, sized and lubed bullets, 800 primers, all already assembled? Worth much more than $50 to me and I'm still shooting the 12 cent a lb lino I bought 20 yesrs ago as well as the $10 a thou primers. That's just me.