M die/Case flaring for Swiss rifles

[SanPedroShooter]

Hello, first post here. I started casting a couple days ago with a 405g hollow base for a Trapdoor with moderate success, still working on it. This site is an incredible resource.

Anyway...

I am going to cast for a Swiss 98/11, K31

I am looking for a good mold to start, I was looking at CTL312-160-2R 7.62x39mm (312 Diameter)

But my main question is about neck flaring

My swiss rifles are .300/.308 on the nose, I was going to size the bullets to .309

Which die should I use to flare the case? Lyman makes an M die in .31 caliber. Is that the right one, or will that be oversize for a .309 boolit?

They also make a .30. Would that one be undersized?

What about using a lee universal expander?

[Dan Cash]

I use a .30 M die for both my 9111 and K31. Works fine. Castings are .309-.310.

[SanPedroShooter]

Thank you. I just wanted some conformation from someone that has one

Which mold do you like to use?

[Larry Gibson]

I was looking at CTL312-160-2R 7.62x39mm (312 Diameter)............My swiss rifles are .300/.308 on the nose, I was going to size the bullets to .309

You may find the nose diameter of that bullet to be too large to enter into that .300 bore if it is that at the throat. That will necessitate either sizing the nose down or seating the bullet deeper below the case neck. The 1st takes additional equipment, an additional step and a hard alloy. The second is just more to do to the bullet and it may not produce the best accuracy if not done right.

The Lee C309-160-R might be the better choice. If sizing at .309 then the Lyman .30 M die is the correct choice.

Larry Gibson

[uscra112]

I made my own expander for my M-die. The factory .30 expander is too small, and the .31 is too big for my barrel, which is .2990/.3105 at the muzzle, but the throat is worn to .301 bore.

But my experience will not be your experience, since elasticity of the brass is such a large factor. I have not annealed this (new Lapua) brass, and don't intend to for a while yet.

Best boolit so far is from an obsolete Eagan mould, cast in a linotype/babbitt mix by another member of CB. Various loads of this go over 2200 fps with excellent accuracy and no leading at all, using White Label 2500 lube and Varget. This is a hard boolit, around 22 BHN.

Next best for my K31 is Ranch Dog 165 with the nose swaged down to fit the thoat. Made a die to do that. Boolit hardness about 15 BHN.

Tried a few 311299. It fit my throat but was running out of lube 8" from the muzzle, except when loaded down to 1400 fps using Blue Dot. At which speed it was 2 MOA at 50 yards off bags, with 2.5x scope. These were "boughten" boolits, don't know the alloy, have not measured the hardness.

[SanPedroShooter]

Thanks, this forum is really great for straight info. Lots of experience and insight.

I have been wondering which would be the best profile bullet. I have been loading gov surplus M80 pulldowns, which look quite a bit different than GP11 ammo.

I set a dummy part way into the case and chambered it then came down another thousand to two to get the OAL. Will that not work with cast boolits?

My goal is to make moderately light range plinkers for now. I will probably stick to jacketed in my K31 since I have so many built up, I am really looking to cast for the 98/11. I understand the throat is slightly more 'conventional' than the K31

[Artful]

I'd keep an eye out for one of the NOE K31 molds
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/1111-050-K31-311.jpg
some good info here for K31 owners
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?108250-good-K31-load
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?173361-k31-NOE-Mold
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?180250-K31-NOE-Range-Report-(Pics-amp-Data)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?135979-Noe-311-247-range-report
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?136086-Range-report-on-K31-with-NOE-247grain-Whisper-bullet
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?1643-K31-Report
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?202146-K31-Poll
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?129999-k31-Corner
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?198358-Bought-a-K31-rifle

other good place is the swiss board
http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/accurizing.html

[SanPedroShooter]

Thanks. That NOE mold looks perfect. Sold out though. Does anyone know if they still make them?

[Artful]

PM SwedeNelson - he's the man who will know when they will run it again.

If it was me - I'd start with a note to try some
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?49-The-Boolit-Exchange

And if it worked for ya - I'd put a note in WTB
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?47-Want-To-Buy-!

and keep an eye on the Swap/Sell threads
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?18-Swappin-amp-Sellin

[SanPedroShooter]

For 20 bucks, I am going to try the LEE 309160. I can use it in other 30 cal milsurps I have if it doesn't work out in my 96/11.

I haven't slugged my K31 yet, but my 1911 rifle seems to be closer to your standard US 30 cal from what Ive read.

It would be nice to see an actual drawing of the available bullet specs like NOE puts on their site from other manufactures.

Thanks. And thanks to the member that offered to send me a couple boolits from a K31 NOE mold. That's going above and beyond.

[badgerblaster]

I tried Lee 309-170 flat nose in my K31 and it ran great. I had read here that some people had trouble with the flat nose feeding from the magazine. In my gun I had no problem at all.

[John Boy]

What about using a lee universal expander? Perfect Choice to flare the mouth of any brass case. To expand the case mouth - Track of the Wolf expander dies used with the Lee expansion die ... http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/1221/1
Turn the 377 plug down to 307

[SanPedroShooter]

Yes, I actually checked that out. I have their .498 expander for my Trapdoor.

I am not sure I would bet on my ability to hand tune anything yet. Although turning a plug down seems simple enough.

Honestly, between the 30 and 31 M dies, thats every rifle I own covered right there. At least any rifle I would be casting for.

[madsenshooter]

I use the Lee collet neck sizing die and adjust it so that the inner diameter of the neck is .001-002" under bullet diameter, no worry about tapering or flaring then. The fit of the NOE bullet depends on the rifle, won't fit my tight bored SIG K31 barrel, unless seated deep, but others find it useful.

[Bob S]

That Lee 309160 did very well in my Model 70 International Match (.308)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Lee309160R.jpg

This is a really old scan and poor quality, but the load (in 308 Win) was 23 grains Rl #7, Federal 210 primer in TW 69 cases. The 9 at 5:00 was me, last shot, I made a mistake of looking at the target after 9 shots instead of just firing it blind. 100 yards, prone, sling.

I figured that bullet would work really well in the K31, but not so much. I tried the same load, did not do that well. I never followed up on it.

BTW, I'm old school. I used Ideal .308 neck expander dies from the # 3, #10 and 310 tools to expand the necks for 7.5x55, but I use them in a Tru Line Jr press.

Resp'y,
Bob S/.

[SanPedroShooter]

Well if it wont work in 1911 or a k31, maybe in a Garand?

I doubt if I could shoot a group like that anyway ;).

If they chamber and fire with no leading, I'll its uphill from there. For 20 bucks I'll take my chances.

A guy is sending me some casts from a NOE Swiss mold.