Range Scrap vs. COWW's

[Foto Joe]

I need to clear up either a myth or a mis-conception on my part. Typically is Range Scrap a softer alloy than COWW's?

I've had REALLY good results with my own smelted COWW's but as we all know, they can be a little hard to come by. Consequently there are a couple of sellers on eBay who are peddling range scrap ingots for a pretty good price and I'm contemplating picking some up. Normally when I smelt my own COWW's I come out at around $1.40-$1.50 per pound. Given the amount of work involved in sorting, smelting etc. finding already smelted bars on eBay for $1.35 per pound +shipping doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. What I don't want to find out the hard way is that range scrap containing the cores of a lot of plated/jacketed bullets is too soft for making boolits without alloying in antimony.

Thanks in advance for educating me.

[jhalcott]

I've tried range scrap and COWW alloys. The range scrap is USUALLY softer at about 10BHN while the COWW's go about 12-13 BHN. The softer alloy is fine for pistol bullets, some casters even use it for rifle bullets. I like a bit more hardness in MY bullets ,depending on caliber and intended use. BIG slow bullets do not seem to NEED hardness to work well. There is ZINC in the jackets that MAY find its way into YOUR pot. I do NOT melt jacketed bullets in my melts. I generally cull them out and only smelt the cast bullets I pick up on the range.

[Larry Gibson]

Depends on what kind of bullets the "range scrap" is mostly made of. If .22LR and target CFs off an indoor range it will be very soft. If off an indoor or outdoor range where a large % of the bullets fired were "hard cast commercial" it will be hard. If off an indoor or outdoor range where a large % are jacketed then it will be soft.

This is where a BHN tester comes in handy. If it tests out at 11+ BHN then it probably has a lot of antimony in it. I usually add 2% tin to such and test cast. If still too hard or brittle (bullets have a real granular look when broken in half) I then add lead in 10% amounts until it casts out with the BHN and malleability I want. Most such have a BHN of 11 - 14 and WQ to 18 - 20 BHN. They make fine general purpose handgun and rifle bullets.

If the BHN of the RL runs less than 11 then odds are there is a lot of .22LR and jacketed bullet alloy. That is more than likely ok in antimony and deficient in tin. Adding 2 - 3% tin many times boost the BHN of AC'd bullets (7-10 days aging) to 12 - 14 and that alloy makes excellent handgun bullets.

Larry Gibson

[Sgtonory]

I just made a bunch of 358156 boolits to shoot in my GP100 out of range scrap and is softer than WW. I pushed them to low magnum velocitys with 0 leading and great accuracy. I have not found anything that soft range scrap dose not work in as far as handgun boolits.

[jonas302]

What I have bought is softer than wheel weights but not by a lot like Larry said its going to vary greatly by source
By the way lead is a lot cheaper here in the swapping and selling forum and most of the guys selling have cast with it and have an idea what they have just search lead in there

[fredj338]

As noted, range scrap can be almost anything. Mixed stuff pulled form the berm usually comes in around 10BHN for me. Then I don't smelt a lot of jacketed bullets, mostly cast. It works for all my handgun needs, even works fine in 45-70.

[jason]

I've tried range scrap and COWW alloys. The range scrap is USUALLY softer at about 10BHN while the COWW's go about 12-13 BHN. The softer alloy is fine for pistol bullets, some casters even use it for rifle bullets. I like a bit more hardness in MY bullets ,depending on caliber and intended use. BIG slow bullets do not seem to NEED hardness to work well. There is ZINC in the jackets that MAY find its way into YOUR pot. I do NOT melt jacketed bullets in my melts. I generally cull them out and only smelt the cast bullets I pick up on the range.

I have a bunch of linotype on hand. Would it make sense to mix a little of this in with the range scrap to get to 13-15 bhn (which is what I want)? I am fairly proficient with casting straight COWW but have not tried mixing different types for alloys, other than adding a little tin.

[cali4088]

Jason, why waste your linotype lead? thats like the most sought after lead there is. You're better off adding pied letterpress lead in small increments to get your desired effect.

[JeffinNZ]

I lot of the berm harvest I have is linotype as many of the local pistol shooters considered that if a little hard is good a lot hard must be better. Suits me fine.

[cali4088]

I lot of the berm harvest I have is linotype as many of the local pistol shooters considered that if a little hard is good a lot hard must be better. Suits me fine.

Thats true, just never heard of someone using linotype to harden lead. An ounce or two of letterpress vs. lbs of linotype

[dondiego]

cali4088 - Never heard of letter press. Can you enlighten me?

[MtGun44]

+1 on Larry's comments.

My range scrap is usually about 8 BHN, but it can be all over the place.

Bill

[btroj]

My range scrap is generally around 12 BHn. It is softer than I would expect COWW to be but t does heat treat well if I want it a bit harder.

Using range scrap isn't a choice for me because of alloy composition as much as it is a matter of availability. I can get range scrap essentially free, hard to beat that.

[cali4088]

cali4088 - Never heard of letter press. Can you enlighten me?


Linotype is a type of lead alloyed ingot that was used as printer ink that has more tin and antimony that COWW lead. The letter presses are the numbers, symbols and letters used to press the lead to the newspaper. Linotype is around 20 BHN. Letterpress blocks, mainly, Stereotype, Monotype, ludlow type and foundry type are all difefrent type alloys of letterpress. Stereo has more tin and antimony than linotype. Monotype more than Stereo, ludlow more than stereo and foundry more than ludlow. if you were using monotype, you would use this calculation when mixing with pure lead

1 lb monotype
3.5 lbs pure lead
= 4.5 lbs alloy with 2.00% Tin, 4.22% Antimony, hardness @ 13

1 lb monotype
5 lbs pure lead
= 6 lbs alloy with 1.50% Tin, 3.17% Antimony, hardness @ 12

1 lb monotype
7 lbs pure lead
= 8 lbs alloy with 1.13% Tin, 2.38% Antimony, hardness @ 11

1 lb monotype
10 lbs pure lead
= 11 lbs alloy with 0.82% Tin, 1.73% Antimony, hardness @ 10.5

1 lb monotype
15 lbs pure lead
= 16 lbs alloy with 0.56% Tin, 1.19% Antimony, hardness @ 10

1 lb monotype
20 lbs pure lead
= 21 lbs alloy with 0.43% Tin, 0.90% Antimony, hardness @ 9.5

[mwc]

My range scrap is generally around 12 BHn. It is softer than I would expect COWW to be but t does heat treat well if I want it a bit harder.

Using range scrap isn't a choice for me because of alloy composition as much as it is a matter of availability. I can get range scrap essentially free, hard to beat that.

Other than the labor involved, I got about 300 lbs of range scrap, (ie) 98% jacketed witch was soft about 8 bhn. I use the alloy calculator to figure out how much superhard, tin or pewter that I need to ad to bring it all up to 10-12 bhn, which I can use in all of my pistols.

[runfiverun]

using the linotype to harden an alloy is a good thing to do.
1 you got some.
2 you have it.
3 it's what you got.
4 what else ya gonna do with it, let it sit there and just look at it..

make large batches of your range scrap let it sit for a week or so then test it.
add some linotype and shoot for a consistent bhn number from batch to batch.
who cares if you gotta add 5 pounds one time and 20 the next you'll be close enough that your guns really won't care.
if you happen onto some ww's throw them in the mix and just adjust as needed, or shoot for about ww hardness with your alloy mix and you wont have to sweat it.

[AlaskanGuy]

+1 to what fiver says... I usually mix up about 20 lbs at a shot... I add 1 lb ingots that i have tested the Bhn on, add them all together with whatever tin i feel i need and some mono if I wanna shoot something harder... Then use a sharpie and lable every 1 lb ingot with a sharpie after it has set for a couple weeks.... Then when i wanna make boolits, i can reliably grab the bhn that I need and cast away... Kinda fun, and like having a lead supermarket...

AG

[btroj]

20 pounds isn't a very large batch.

I have alloy set aside for a specific rifle and a specific bullet and I made 200 plus pounds of it. Weighed out the range scrap ingots and the monotype, poured ingots. Made 5 batches like that and kept the ingots separated by batch. Next week I took an even number from each batch and smelted them together. This made the entire batch pretty close to the same.

I need to make about 500 pounds like that for general rifle use so I have a consistent alloy.

[tomme boy]

I have been melting down a bunch of buckets of all jacketed bullets from a police range. A real pain in the ****! About 3/4 of them are TMJ. I have been sorting them out to do the open base ones first. The lead is dead soft. Now my range scrap, it comes out about 12-13. It has a lot of cast boolits. I would guess about 2/3 of them are cast.

[btroj]

I don't sort. The fmj are either plated or have a thin disk inserted into the base to cover the lead. I find that either one opens up fine and lets the lead out. Since I gathered about 8 or 9 full five gallon buckets of scrap last year the time to sort isn't worth the effort.

[Bigslug]

Range scrap is Forrest Gump's box of chocolates - Dad and I recently found a bunch of commercial cast slugs from the mid-1980's in our stash that tested out as straight-up linotype. Hit a large vein of that stuff in your local berm, and your "usual" 8-10 BHN (very handy stuff for .45 Auto BTW) is out the window. Consequently, I've started a new approach with my smelting of range scrap - start a pot, melt it, clean it, and then ingot it into into it's own separate pile. Refill the empty pot and repeat. Hardness-test a sample from each pile and sort accordingly.

It is desirable to have a "library" of alloy - both scrounged and purchased from Rotometals. I come across the occasional score of old wheel weights, but I can't count on a steady supply of them here in the Condor Cuddling Commune. No problem, as I can mix up whatever I need from various piles of pure lead, known-hardness range scrap, reclaimed bird shot, linotype, and Lyman #2.

Did I mention that I do not consider a hardness tester to be "optional" equipment?

[jason]

using the linotype to harden an alloy is a good thing to do.
1 you got some.
2 you have it.
3 it's what you got.
4 what else ya gonna do with it, let it sit there and just look at it..

make large batches of your range scrap let it sit for a week or so then test it.
add some linotype and shoot for a consistent bhn number from batch to batch.
who cares if you gotta add 5 pounds one time and 20 the next you'll be close enough that your guns really won't care.
if you happen onto some ww's throw them in the mix and just adjust as needed, or shoot for about ww hardness with your alloy mix and you wont have to sweat it.

I do have some on hand that I really have no other use for. I think the range scrap I have access to will turn out fairly soft as it is mostly (98%) going to be jacketed pistol bullets (fmj mostly at that). I don't have a hardness tester yet but do plan on getting a cabine tree at some point.

[tomme boy]

I have never had the TMJ bullets open up when heated. I have had the lead glowing red and they did not open. I have to sort as the scrap yard I go to goes through jackets to make sure there are none with lead in them.

[merlin101]

I have never had the TMJ bullets open up when heated. I have had the lead glowing red and they did not open. I have to sort as the scrap yard I go to goes through jackets to make sure there are none with lead in them.

To save alittle time try smelting all the range turds together, then skim the jackets and set aside. Let the jackets cool while working the lead, when cool I then sort thru them. You can pick out the full FMJ one's real easy as they will be slightly swollen. I use a pair of cheap Harbor Freight fence pliers to open them up ( the hook jaws work great!) Then those 'full' jackets and others with lead still hanging onto them go into a wire basket suspended over my pot and get heated up with a weed burner. It's amazing just how much lead you can get the 2nd time around!

[Fishman]

I need to clear up either a myth or a mis-conception on my part. Typically is Range Scrap a softer alloy than COWW's?

I've had REALLY good results with my own smelted COWW's but as we all know, they can be a little hard to come by. Consequently there are a couple of sellers on eBay who are peddling range scrap ingots for a pretty good price and I'm contemplating picking some up. Normally when I smelt my own COWW's I come out at around $1.40-$1.50 per pound. Given the amount of work involved in sorting, smelting etc. finding already smelted bars on eBay for $1.35 per pound +shipping doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. What I don't want to find out the hard way is that range scrap containing the cores of a lot of plated/jacketed bullets is too soft for making boolits without alloying in antimony.

Thanks in advance for educating me.

You can get a better deal on smelted lead by contacting The Captain in the Vendor Sponsor section.