Help with reloading hard cast bullets

[Fireman5045]

Hi, this will be my first post here so cut me a little slack. I have been around firearms since i can remember and shoot often. Factory ammo is eating me alive so I have decided to start reloading and when I start I wanna reload hard cast. I will be reloading for a Marlin 1895 45-70 and a Ruger Blackhawk 357. Even though I'm only 22 I like to think of myself as a traditionalist because I love lever actions and single actions and it just don't seem right to reload anything but a traditional cast bullet but to get back on point. I have been all over the web looking for info on reloading cast bullets. Everything I read is so conflicting with what I had read just before that. If u don't care to explain or point me towards a website/book to answer some questions it would be greatly appreciated.

These are the things I'm looking for:

Do I need to use wads in between powder and projectile?
Do I need to use filler in between powder and projectile?
How to cut down on leading the barrel?
Do I use laser cast or gas checked?
Are cast bullets good for hunting purposes?
I can find jacketed bullets reloading data all day long but nothing on cast reloading data?

I want something that's gonna explain it all down to the smallest detail.

Thanks

[Doc_Stihl]

First....Welcome aboard!

All of those questions have been answered over and over again on this site.

I can generalize on your post though.
No
No
Fit the bullet to the barrel. GC over 1200fps. Lube.
Depends on the velocity. Depends on alot.
Yes. Almost always better (in my opinion)
There's load data on castpics.net (link at the bottom). Lyman cast bullet reloading guide has alot.

If you get your hands on a lyman cast bullet guide and then read it, you'll be well on your way.

If you search each of those questions they will be explained in detail.

[marc257]

From my experience, you can find answers to all those questions right there on this forum. Just do a little searching and reading.

[leadman]

You will find all the answers to your questions here as stated. I recommmend you read the thread on Hi-Tek Coating in the Coating & Alternatives section if you are planning on casting your own.
The Lyman Cast Bullet manual #4 is a very good source for information. The #3 is also good and might still be available.
Richard Lee's manual second edition is good reading also.

[detox]

LBT Wide Flat Nose design is the most copied style hunting bullet. You can read about it here by the man who invented it. His LBT Soft Blue lube is verygood at cutting down on leading.

http://www.lbtmoulds.com/index.shtml

[Char-Gar]

What you really need is to buy a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet reloading handbook. This is where you should start. You are just one of many who have been driven to handloading by the cost and availability of factory ammo these days.

[C. Latch]

What you really need is to buy a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet reloading handbook. This is where you should start. You are just one of many who have been driven to handloading by the cost and availability of factory ammo these days.

Char gar has been casting for several decades and I have been casting for one year, but we agree perfectly on his post. That should tell you something.

[osteodoc08]

Welcome aboard. It sounds like you are new to reloading in general and will be using factory made cast boolits.

First step is to see if you can find a mentor in reloading. It is a hands on exercise and requires utmost attention. You can go from a nice firearm to what used to be a nice firearm in the pull of a trigger not to mention permanent bodily harm, especially when confusing powders and using AA#7 in place of reloader 7 (recently happened to a marlinowners forum member). KABOOM!

Next I would focus on the purpose of the cartridge. Powder puff softball loads or all out hunting max velocity adjust your shoulder, back and neck loads. Find components to suite that need.

Many people get stuck on "HARD" cast, whatever that means. Dont get caught up in the hype. Too hard is detrimental and can cause horrible accuracy, bullets unsuitable for hunting, etc. Ask here for recommendations based on the intended use. We can guide you.

Get a generic reloading manual and a Lyman cast handloading manual. They are invaluable. If you have a question, stop and ask. Dont guess. This isnt the business of uneducated guessing.....I enjoy my eyes hands and face, dont you?

Welcome to the forum. This is by far the best and most knowledgeable board that I've experienced and I've been on most of the major gun boards.

[Fireman5045]

Well I guess I need to apologize because obviously I didn't search very well lol

This is a big help. Cause I don't have anyone that I know that does reload much less mess with any cast loads.

To be honest I don't need any crazy hot loads. From what I understand the buffalo population was almost diminished by 45-70 loaded at trapdoor pressures. I'm looking for a good all around load. I got a wife, a newborn and I'm trying to put myself through college so economical is key

I'll try and get my hands on some of the books mentioned. And thanks for all the advice. Keep it coming if you got anything else

[stubert]

I had terrible luck shooting laser casts in my Marlin GG, they were in the bhn 22-26 range, (as told to me by Lasercast) and are a bevel base. Stick with a square base about 15 bhn and use a good lube. I would recomend you stay away from hard cast. There are a number of vender members on this board that can cast almost anything you want. A gas checked is more forgiving than a plain base. Many people use starting data for jacketed with a lead bullet, the lead bullet has less friction and is softer so the pressures are lower with the same weight. Get the Lyman # 3 if possible. Lots of info.

[osteodoc08]

Where do you live?

As far as components go, you can get a Lee kit for 125-150 and have most of what you need to reload. Look on here for dies, bullets and brass. Find a local supplier for powder and primers or can buy online in quantity.

And since you mentioned college and family, please take my advice on this....DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FOR THIS ON CREDIT!!!!

[Fireman5045]

I live in Dalton, GA

I already got the lee anniversary kit. Great kit for the money by the way. And I also have the lee 45-70 dies and factory crimp die.

And where I'm from we don't believe in credit. When I started college that all went to hell in a hand basket lol

['74 sharps]

Main advantage of "hardcast" bullets are that they ship well. There is a relationship between case pressure-alloy hardness-bore size that if not followed may lead to leading.

[captaint]

Welcome, Fireman. First, buy a good handloading manual, Speer, Hornady, Lee, Lyman - they're all good. Second, forget the hard cast myth. Boolit fit is far more important. Fit in the throat of your revolver and in the grooves of your barrels. Forget that hard business.
Also, this is the only place on the net for my money for GOOD information and reliable help. Lots of great folks right here. Read that loading manual and the cast boolit manual (Lyman) first.
You're about to enjoy shooting way more than you're used to. When we cast and load our own, it's just like that. enjoy Mike

[Fireman5045]

How do I go about fitting my bullet to my barrel?

And since I also want to hunt with these reloads. If I don't use hard cast won't the bullet just fragment when used on game

[dondiego]

Hard bullets are brittle and more likely to fragment but most likely will just pass on through. Softer bullets at lower velocities mushroom nicely.

[Fireman5045]

Oh ok. I guess the name of the game is finding a good medium between too hard and too soft

And I forgot to mention that I don't have the money at the time to sink in on the equipment to cast my own so I have to use factory cast bullets

[bangerjim]

How do I go about fitting my bullet to my barrel?

And since I also want to hunt with these reloads. If I don't use hard cast won't the bullet just fragment when used on game

Again.......READ........READ......READ!!!!!!!!

You slug your barrel to get the correct size.

All is covered on here. Use the advanced search function....not the little white box!

banger

[osteodoc08]

Fireman, Check your inbox. i sent you a PM.

[MT Chambers]

For high speed loads esp. in the .357 get a mold that casts a gas check bullet and use a GC...the 45/70 may not need them unless you are pushing them fast. Read the Lyman books for cast bullet info, then read 'em again....enjoy.

[cbrick]

Welcome to CastBoolits Fireman5045,

First and foremost, forget that "Hardcast" nonsense. Hardcast is a term invented by the commercial bullet casters to get the unknowing to buy their product, it sounds cool though huh? It has nothing to do with what is best for their customers. Same with hard lube, it withstands the vigor's of shipping and stays on the boolits. Boolits too hard will cause more problems than they could ever cure including leading and inaccuracy.

The reading material mentioned so far is good but here is another great book for new casters and the old salts as well, best of all it's FREE.

From Ingot To Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf)

Download it, print it out, you'll refer to this often.

You'll learn about slugging a bore and the throats on your revolver and how to go about making a boolit properly fit the firearm it's to be fired in. Don't worry about such things as filler until your an advanced handloader dealing with certain powder/cartridge combinations. The ones your working with need no such things.

As you get into casting you'll hear all manor of old wives tales, they just keep getting repeated over and over. When you have questions just come to this forum and ask away, there is literally thousands of years of combined casting experience here and many of the old wives tales have been debunked. Some keep recurring but we are working on them.

Read all you can here, the stickies and all. Remember, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. Good luck.

Rick

[dragonrider]

Welcome to the forum Fireman.

Finding bore size is called slugging, you will need some soft lead for this, most use fishing sinkers of suitable size. Firearm bore should be very clean and lightly oiled to begin. The soft lead needs to be larger than the bore diameter, but not a great deal larger, just large enough. You will drive it through the bore with a rod, don't use a wood dowel, it's possible to become cracked and wedge tightly in the bore and become very difficult to remove. Use a brass rod that is as close to bore diameter as possible, you can use a steel rod but wrap it with electrical tape as a precaution. After you drive it though you can measure across the flats thus giving you " groove diameter". This will allow you to choose the size of your boolit which should be .001-.002 thousandths larger than groove size. Sometimes a gun will like an even larger boolit but not much larger.

Finding boolit size is where casting begins. Without it you are just guessing at what size you need. Boolit fit is king, the most important part of making boolits.

[Driver man]

I want something that's gonna explain it all down to the smallest detail.

Thanks[/QUOTE]
Every thing you need to know is covered on this site. The depth of knowledge and experience available here is unparalleled on any other site and the members here on the most part will share their knowledge willingly with you but it is very important for you to start reading the stickies here. One of the things you will discover is that all the questions you ask can be answered starting with "depends" .The beauty of reloading and casting is that you have enormous flexability with the results you want to achieve and as your knowledge grows so does your addiction. All the tools needed ,dies moulds etc can be found here . What we want is for you to share your learning experiences with us . I have been reloading and casting for over 40 years but only realised the scarcity of knowledge i had when I joined this site. I look forward to your results and welcome.

[Fireman5045]

Thanks for all the replies. Makes me a little less nervous about trying this on my own knowing I can refer to some of you guys that have done it lol

[btroj]

What you really need is to buy a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet reloading handbook. This is where you should start. You are just one of many who have been driven to handloading by the cost and availability of factory ammo these days.

This is dead on. Listen.

[detox]

And I forgot to mention that I don't have the money at the time to sink in on the equipment to cast my own so I have to use factory cast bullets

Without knowing the throat and bore diameter of gun I would start out using a gas check bullet. The gas check will help guard against leading for the beginner. My 357 magnum revolver dislikes SWC bullets and likes hard or soft cast bullets.

This Rimrock Bullet looks interesting.
Look here: http://www.rimrockbullets.net/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=42

[Moonie]

Also note there are some of the guys on here that have businesses selling cast boolits that are the proper hardness and they will make sure they are sized properly for you. They also use proper lubes, not the horrible hard lubes most commercial cast companies force on you.

[Char-Gar]

Also note there are some of the guys on here that have businesses selling cast boolits that are the proper hardness and they will make sure they are sized properly for you. They also use proper lubes, not the horrible hard lubes most commercial cast companies force on you.

One such guy is mattsbullets.com . His bullets are hand cast of the right alloy and a good lube. I have used them and they are first class. His prices are good as well. He is currently backed up up 4 months on his orders, but they are worth the wait.

[Larry Gibson]

Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post

What you really need is to buy a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet reloading handbook. This is where you should start. You are just one of many who have been driven to handloading by the cost and availability of factory ammo these days.


This is dead on. Listen.

+ another for that sage advice. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition is current and available in stores and from suppliers. However, check out used book stores etc. for Lyman's CBH 3rd edition which has a bit more useful information up front. Either will do however as they are considered by many as the basic primer for casting, loading and shooting cast bullets. They also provide an amount of cast bullet data for most common cartridges (including the 45-70 and 357 magnum) that will not be found in one place anywhere else. You will find yourself constantly referring to that manual in the years to come.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

The Lyman book will answer all of the basic questions and most of the advanced question. The data found in the book is all pressure tested and reliable.

This site should not be consider the primary resource for cast bullet reloading in handguns or most rifles. To be certain many of the posters here are quite experienced and give good counsel, but there are many others who counsel is questionable at times and down right dangerous at other times. So start with a known reliable source and stay with it, until you have the knowledge and experience to evaluate the information you get online.

[Uncle R.]

The Lyman book will answer all of the basic questions and most of the advanced question. The data found in the book is all pressure tested and reliable.

This site should not be consider the primary resource for cast bullet reloading in handguns or most rifles. To be certain many of the posters here are quite experienced and give good counsel, but there are many others who counsel is questionable at times and down right dangerous at other times. So start with a known reliable source and stay with it, until you have the knowledge and experience to evaluate the information you get online.

There's a lot of wisdom in this posting. You can't do better for yourself than to follow this advice.
<
Uncle R.

[Cherokee]

I'll add my Welcome !! You have received much good advice so I'll just say good luck in school and with the learning about casting.

[dverna]

Another vote for the Lyman book. (I have it by my side right now BTW) Also look here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?158805-Just-a-few-tips-for-new-rifle-casters

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?110213-From-Ingot-to-Target-A-Cast-Bullet-Guide-for-Handgunners

DO NOT read the coating threads. 100's pages with very little useful information and a waste of time when starting out. If you are short of funds, pan lubing is cheap but slow and a bit messy. The other option is Liquid tumble lube. Both work. If only doing a few of the .45/70's you can even finger lube. You can size with the Lee push-through dies but check them as they are sometimes not the size you order. Easy to lap out if that happens.

You can move to coated bullets if you want once you have the rest of the stuff working well. KISS. One step at a time.

Don Verna

[Wayne Smith]

You are young, and, by definition, impatient. Slow down, concentrate on one gun at a time, buy yourself some real jacketed bullets and learn to reload. Master one skill at a time. Unless you can buy some relatively soft cast boolits don't even think of casting any yet.

Do get the Lyman manual, Do get another reloading manual (Sierra comes to mind) do download From Ingot to Target, and read while you are learning to reload.

You are young and smart (you are a college student, after all) so you will accomplish the above relatively quickly between now and finals.

After finals sit down with your wife and go over the budget. Yes, reloading and casting will allow a lot more shooting for the dollar, but you have several options for getting into the business at various levels of start up costs. On the basis of available money and place to cast (and make a mess, the kitchen is NOT that place!) you decide if and how you might get into it.

Does that schedule make sense to you?

[MtGun44]

Start handloading with jbullets and get good at it with them. Then find
some factory cast and see if you can make them work - just be sure that
they are big enough and lean towards softer NOT harder.

Have to disagree with the "GC over 1200"comment. I find no need at all
for GCs in any normal pistol, even magnum loads. Pistol cartridges in a rifle,
like .44 Mag and .357 Mag, maybe. I'd guess the speed limit for PBs is
more like 1700 fps, but I generally put GCs on rifle boolits and no GCs on
all pistol boolits.

"Hard cast" is a poorly defined term and too hard and too small diam is
a recipe for poor groups and a leaded barrel. Hardness by itself does NOT
prevent leading, regardless of how many times other people will say that
it does. Read that one again and let it soak in. Elmer Keith's 'hard cast'
were about 12 BHN. Many commercial 'hard cast' are 22 BHN. HUGE
difference and mostly not necessary.

Fit is the key piece of the puzzle but boolit design and lube are critical
issues. Starting with NRA 50-50 is never a mistake, but after you have
it all working, you can experiment with other lubes. Stick with "known good
lubes" at first to avoid headaches.

Bill

[smokesahoy]

best video on reloading, just watch it a few times and maybe take notes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98I1i8Toj8E

[Fireman5045]

Wayne Smith and MtGun44

Your advise makes sense. I thought since I was gonna reload I would go ahead and jump into cast but there seems to be a lot more to this than I imagined and casting my own is not gonna happen any time soon.

With the budget that I'm working with cast bullets were looking really good. I'll just sit back and take in all the info I can till I get there

[MtGun44]

Using commercial cast can be a great way to start. Just make sure that they aren't
too small!

For the .45-70, get some Sierra 300 gr or Remington 405 gr jbullets. They both
work very well in my GG. Start with something like 12 gr of Unique and move up
as you see need, max around 15-16 gr. to get the accy you want. These are very
mild and enjoyable loads, usually quite accurate.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/578501/sierra-pro-hunter-bullets-45-caliber-458-diameter-300-grain-hollow-point-flat-nose-box-of-50

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601214242/remington-bullets-45-70-government-458-diameter-405-grain-soft-point

For the .357, see if you can find some commercial 158 gr SWC cast in .358 diameter. These can load over Unique
very well, too. Start with 5 gr and work up to 6 gr as you see a need. You will probably be fine.

Bill

[bruce381]

as far as casting I started with a Lee mold and a tin can on a camping stove.
Made a lot of wrinkled boolits at first but that is like practice and any not "perfect' can be re melted over and over it is fun.

I shot them as cast and tumble lube was messy buit a start.

[MtGun44]

Bruce,

That's the spirit! Not necessary to have fancy stuff to make boolits that
will work, esp in the .38 Spl and .45 ACP, extremely forgiving cartridges.

Bill

[Wayne Smith]

Fireman, I cannot emphasize too much sitting down with the wife and discussing this. Both the budget and the place to do it are critical. I loaded for years before I began casting, mostly because I knew nothing about it. My wife is a geologist and knows a lot about heavy metals and monitored me until she was comfortable with what I was doing. If you have kids around it is even more important. I have found pieces of lead in the laundry, having stuck to my pants and come off in the washer. There will be splatter. You need to plan how to contain it.

Budget wise you can pick up an old camp stove and kitchen 1qt pot from the Salvation Army or other thrift store. This is adequate to cast, you need to buy either a Lyman or RCBS ladle. I still use this method after 15 years of casting and my pure lead is still in that 1qt pot - now sans handle. A cheap hotplate and an old saw blade if yours is the coil type is adequate to pre-heat your molds. An old towel folded for them to land on is adequate. Viola - except for alloy you are set up to cast for pennies.

At least initially you can buy metal from RotoMetals or from some of the people on this board and not worry about making your own alloy.

One other thing. While you are studying pick up a micrometer and learn how to use it. You will need to slug your guns to know what molds to buy and if you need to size.

[M-Tecs]

Lots of good info on this site. http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

The Cast Bullet Association site is also good http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/

I would also post that you are looking for a Mentor to learn bullet casting at some of the local ranges.

[C. Latch]

Like Wayne mentioned above, be careful with kids around. This includes handling brass and primers. It also includes keeping them away from the press. I let my 2 year old pull the handle on the press a few times and now have to wait and load when she sleeps to keep her away. It was cute until she ran up and grabbed the press handle at the same time that she stuck her other hand in the press with her little fingers on the ram. I stopped her before disaster but it got my attention!

[Fireman5045]

Thanks for all the advise and replies. I'm almost ready to reload for the first time. After getting the hang of that then I'm gonna work on casting

[David2011]

Fireman,

Welcome to the group and congratulations. Your introduction here has been by a veritable who's-who of highly respected members. These guys steered you well. Have fun. There's plenty to learn just in reloading. Casting is a whole separate skill and it's FUN!

David