bad leading in 40sw

[sirAIG]

Hey all,

I have a bad leading problem in my 40sw barrels. I have tried using chore boy on an old brush, soaking in hopped, etc. I can't get Find an easy way to get the lead out efficiently.

Before I get slammed with getting my Boolits not to cause leading, I cast straight range lead and ESPC the Boolits. It has worked great in .45acp but doesn't seem to have helped at all on my 40sw.

Thanks for any help you can provide!!

[glicerin]

Soak the barrel overnite in kerosene or powder solvent. then chore boy. R your bullets undersize, or too high a velocity?

[Sgtonory]

I wrap a old copper brush with a copper scrub pad made for cleaning pots. I cut off a strip of it and wrap it around the brush and push it back and forth like a normal patch. Worked well for me when i had leading when i first started casting for 9mm.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Check your barrel throat to make sure there's no step acting like a cheese grater.

[bowenrd]

Hey all,

I have a bad leading problem in my 40sw barrels. I have tried using chore boy on an old brush, soaking in hopped, etc. I can't get Find an easy way to get the lead out efficiently.

Before I get slammed with getting my Boolits not to cause leading, I cast straight range lead and ESPC the Boolits. It has worked great in .45acp but doesn't seem to have helped at all on my 40sw.

Thanks for any help you can provide!!

Range lead MAY be to soft to use in 40 S&W. 40 S&W runs at higher pressure than 45 ACP

[nicholst55]

Significantly higher pressure.

[destrux]

Make sure you're fully cooking your powder coat. Check your oven with an accurate thermometer to be sure you're hitting 400 degrees for a full 23 minutes.

I had the same issue.... my powder coat was undercured and turning the oven hotter to reach an actual 400 fixed it.

[sirAIG]

I will check the temp tonight, going to coat more tonight.

Does soaking in kerosene actually work? Does it harm the barrel at all?

I agree the lead is soft, but them being powder coated I though would alleviate any problems due to boolit hardness. The throad on both my glock and Sig look just fine to me. I'm loading 170gr Lee tc's over 3.7 gr of red dot. I know red dot is a fast and got burning powder, thinking it may be burning the exposed bases of the Boolits. The only other powder I currently have is power pistol and tite group. I plan to play around to try to figure this issue out, but I'm really curious if there is any way to efficiently remove all leading as I experiment to figure this issue out. All of the leading is mostly all in the throat\first little bit of the bore.

[btroj]

Never have I seen leading that couldn't be removed with a brush and chore boy or steel wool.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I use the proper sized Jag, cotton patch, and about 20 strands of 0000 steel wool. Patch soaked in Ed's red For lubrication.
Jon

[sirAIG]

Steel wool won't hurt the barrel at all? Does it cut better than chore boy?

[btroj]

No harm to the barrel. I use 4 aught steel wool to remove leading on those occasions I get leading.
It needs to be snug in the barrel. I like to use it dry, it makes it easier to feel it cut the lead.

Runs few wet patches after the steel wool, dry the bore, and take a look.

[Goatwhiskers]

Can't recall where I read it, but there was some guy that started PC his boolits and quickly wound up with the grooves filled level with that material. Don't have any further knowledge of what developed. Thought you might want to know. GW

[seaboltm]

Steel wool won't hurt the barrel at all? Does it cut better than chore boy?

I respectfully disagree. 0000 steel wool will put micro scratches in the bore, which can't be good for rifling. I use bronze wool from brownells wrapped for a tight fit around a nylon brush. It doesn't take long to remove lead. The Lewis lead remover system is available from brownells, but you need a padded vice or something to hold your barrel tight as the Lewis system requires a lot of pulling force. Frankly I have the Lewis system and bronze wool, and find bronze wool just as effective. For leaded cylinders I cheat and spin the bronze wool with a drill, but I never use the drill and bronze wool on a rifled bore.

Kerosene is totally safe for your barrel for any period of time you wish to soak it. Kerosene is a light oil.

[sirAIG]

I have heard of people soaking barrels in a hydrogen peroxide solution, does this work as well as they say?

[btroj]

I would avoid the peroxide, it can easily lead to rust.

Mechanical means are better than chemical for that reason. A snug brush and steel wool just works. As for micro scratches- what do you think is used to card the rust in some forms of bluing? Rub a hunk of barrel with steel wool and see what happens. It just isn't an issue.

[MBuechle]

I tried Clays with cast in the .40 and got what you are discribing. Power Pistol worked much better for me. The medium burn rate powders like PP & WW231/HP-38 seem to work best. A little harder alloy may be in order too. 50:50 WW:Pb works well for me, air cooled for HPs, water dropped for flat noses. Also, particularly with soft alloy, make sure our expander opens the case enough to prevent swage down when seating. Most meant for jacketed bullets don't.

[sirAIG]

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx343/siraig/2014-01-21%2021.22.30.jpg[/URL
[URL=http://s770.photobucket.com/user/siraig/media/2014-01-21%2021.23.28.jpg.html]http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx343/siraig/2014-01-21%2021.23.28.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/user/siraig/media/2014-01-21%2021.22.30.jpg.html)

These are Boolits recovered out of my Sig sp2022. I have noticed on one side of the groove left by the land, it cuts through the powder coat. Would this be cause by an oversized boolit?

[leadman]

hard to see but it looks like the boolits are "skidding" some in the rifling. If you can drive a soft lead slug thru the barrel and measure how wide the grooves in the boolits shown and compare them to the grooves in the slug. You might need a harder alloy.

[sirAIG]

I don't have anything I can slug the barrel with... I guess I could smash a book it down and pound it through, but I'm not even sure what hardness the lead I've been shooting is, pretty soft though.

[smokesahoy]

if you are going to change powder get 800x. its worth learning how to use it in this caliber

[sirAIG]

Can you explain what you meant by worth learning to use? I have done a little homework on popular powders and can't recal that powder being suggested before

[Oreo]

800x is overkill for 40sw imo. It's draw is that it can give you the highest velocity possible in 40sw but the catch is that it doesn't meter at all so each charge needs to be hand weighed. Not worth the hassle in 40sw. Longshot is the natural alternative to 800x and meters like water. WSF is my personal favorite.

[seaboltm]

I have heard of people soaking barrels in a hydrogen peroxide solution, does this work as well as they say?

Hydrogen Peroxide mixed with Vinegar (Acetic Acid) and then exposed to Lead will turn Lead into Lead Acetate, which is water soluble, meaning the Lead should rinse out pretty easy with water, if I recall correctly. This solution will likely damage the finish on a gun, but i doubt it would do much damage to metal if the ingredients used were bought at the drug store. Industrial strength ingredients changes that, and I would test it none the less.

[seaboltm]

I would avoid the peroxide, it can easily lead to rust.

Mechanical means are better than chemical for that reason. A snug brush and steel wool just works. As for micro scratches- what do you think is used to card the rust in some forms of bluing? Rub a hunk of barrel with steel wool and see what happens. It just isn't an issue.

I do quite a bit of rust bluing. I would not do the process to my bore, and indeed plug my bores to prevent the process from reaching the bore. The 0000 steel wool runs the risk of breaking the sharp edged of the rifling, which is not a good thing.

[sirAIG]

I had some luck last night soaking the barrel in kroil and scrubbing with chore boy. I'm going to try a lewis lead theremover once it comes in.

[geargnasher]

Get the right expander spud for your expander die when using soft boolits so that hard, tough, thick, high-pressure .40 brass doesn't squish them, and if your throat isn't too small or too sharp you should have no more leading. Even down-loaded, you can't compare .40 to the .45 because the brass is so much different and causes lots of problems. Same with 9mm. Factory expander dies won't cut it. Harder boolits seem to solve the problem some of the time because they resist getting squished when seated. Undersized boolits, meaning boolits that are squished smaller than groove diameter when seated, will leak gas and lead to buggary when fired.

Gear

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I respectfully disagree. 0000 steel wool will put micro scratches in the bore, which can't be good for rifling. I use bronze wool from brownells wrapped for a tight fit around a nylon brush. It doesn't take long to remove lead. The Lewis lead remover system is available from brownells, but you need a padded vice or something to hold your barrel tight as the Lewis system requires a lot of pulling force. Frankly I have the Lewis system and bronze wool, and find bronze wool just as effective. For leaded cylinders I cheat and spin the bronze wool with a drill, but I never use the drill and bronze wool on a rifled bore.

Kerosene is totally safe for your barrel for any period of time you wish to soak it. Kerosene is a light oil.


I do quite a bit of rust bluing. I would not do the process to my bore, and indeed plug my bores to prevent the process from reaching the bore. The 0000 steel wool runs the risk of breaking the sharp edged of the rifling, which is not a good thing.

No friggen way !
is 4 or 5 strokes with a cotton patch with about 20 strands of 0000 steel wool gonna hurt gun barrel steel.

Also, if for some remote chance that the stars align cosmically and the extremely UNLIKELY occurs ...where you break the sharp edge of rifling, you wouldn't even get close to the smooth edge of metford rifling, which is known to highly accurate.

[geargnasher]

Bret4207 convinced me years ago to use 6-ought steel wool, and I haven't damaged a bore or crown yet. I still use bronze wool and Chore Boy or O-Cedar copper pads when the need arises, but the fine steel wool really gets down in the corners of the grooves well.

Gear

[sirAIG]

Get the right expander spud for your expander die when using soft boolits so that hard, tough, thick, high-pressure .40 brass doesn't squish them, and if your throat isn't too small or too sharp you should have no more leading. Even down-loaded, you can't compare .40 to the .45 because the brass is so much different and causes lots of problems. Same with 9mm. Factory expander dies won't cut it. Harder boolits seem to solve the problem some of the time because they resist getting squished when seated. Undersized boolits, meaning boolits that are squished smaller than groove diameter when seated, will leak gas and lead to buggary when fired.

Gear

I understand what you are saying. I will pull a few Boolits and see if they are getting swaged down. I would still think that the powder coat would prevent any gas cutting from taking place. But I am also new to this. I am currently loading on a Dillon 550b. I guess I would always machine a new expander plug on the lathe, are other people using Dillons expanding die having issues with it being undersize?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Get the right expander spud for your expander die when using soft boolits so that hard, tough, thick, high-pressure .40 brass doesn't squish them, and if your throat isn't too small or too sharp you should have no more leading. Even down-loaded, you can't compare .40 to the .45 because the brass is so much different and causes lots of problems. Same with 9mm. Factory expander dies won't cut it. Harder boolits seem to solve the problem some of the time because they resist getting squished when seated. Undersized boolits, meaning boolits that are squished smaller than groove diameter when seated, will leak gas and lead to buggary when fired.

Gear

Best advice ever in regards to loading 40 or 9mm.

Because of the advice from Gear about a year ago, I had Buckshot made a custom insert for the Lee powder thru expander die for the 40 (and also for the 9mm). Solved my problems. If you see in my comparison sketch, that the original Lee only expands about 0.100"of the case, whereas I calculated that I want about 0.330" of the case expanded...working good so far with the Lee TL 401-175, I have yet to finish the testing with the NOE 402-160-RN


http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/40SWLeeinsert_zps85d2a62b.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/40SWLeeinsert_zps85d2a62b.jpg.html)

[smokesahoy]

800x in a modified Lee perfect powder measure is extremely accurate. Knock off the tab that stops the downstroke so it goes past vertical and stops on the mounting bracket. Ever since that mod that I read about in his book the throws have been accurate to .1 grain

[prs]

I don't have anything I can slug the barrel with... I guess I could smash a book it down and pound it through, but I'm not even sure what hardness the lead I've been shooting is, pretty soft though.
Get an "egg" shaped lead fishing weight just over sized.

I use steel wool of 4"O" super fine grade, never seen 6 "O"; but the finer the better as there are more edges to catch on the lead. Steel wool is of very mild steel. Bronze wool is pretty good, but the steel works better for me. I have used the real copper padding too; but in the end the best deal is to solve the leading problem for sure.

prs

[sirAIG]

Get an "egg" shaped lead fishing weight just over sized.

I use steel wool of 4"O" super fine grade, never seen 6 "O"; but the finer the better as there are more edges to catch on the lead. Steel wool is of very mild steel. Bronze wool is pretty good, but the steel works better for me. I have used the real copper padding too; but in the end the best deal is to solve the leading problem for sure.

prs

I took your advice and got some fishing sinkers. Slugged my glock barrel and it measures .401". I have been sizing my Boolits using a .401" Lee push through. The other issue I have is my mold alignment pins need adjusted better because the halves of the molds aren't aligning properly leaving me a small patch of boolit that measures .398"

I still would think that the powder coat would prevent leading from a slightly undersized boolit.

I pulled a couple Boolits and it after measuring have determined the cases are not swaging down the Boolits any.

[MtGun44]

"powder coat would prevent any gas cutting from taking place."

Why? It melts at a few hundred degrees and isn't hard to begin with?

If groove diam is .401, you should size to .402.
How are you measuring your slug? If with a caliper, your measurements are not
accurate. Calipers are +/-0.001". You need a .001" micrometer for
this work.

Bill

[Pinsnscrews]

"powder coat would prevent any gas cutting from taking place."

Why? It melts at a few hundred degrees and isn't hard to begin with?

Bill

"Powder coating can also be removed by a burning off process, in which parts are put into a large high-temperature oven with temperatures typically reaching an air temp of 1100 to 1500 degrees with a burner temperature of 900. The process takes about four hours and requires the parts to be cleaned completely and repowdered. Parts made with a thinner-gage material need to be burned off at a lower temperature to prevent the material from warping."

[Oreo]

Powder coating can help because it enlarges the boolit by several thousandths. A .398" boolit normally won't shoot and can't be sized any bigger but with powder coat that boolit is now .401"-.402" easy enough and shootable.

[sirAIG]

I always go to my mitutoyo calipers. I double checked with my mic and it verified my measurements.

The points of powder coating burning/melting are valid. I have more Boolits to PC, I will have to see what they measure after coating and test them out.

In regards to the expander plug, is anyone having issues using the Dillon expander on a 550\650 having it swage down Boolits? The Boolits I pulled measured as they would before being seated.

Thank you all for putting up with my lack or knowledge and being so helpful. It is very much appreciated!!

[upnorthwis]

I had leading so bad that steel wool was only polishing it. Bought the Outers Foul Out system. Sucked it out in a couple of hours and you don't have to do anything but check it once in a while. Don't know if it does anything bad to the barrel or not because I'm shooting 3-gun with big targets at close range.

[newmexicocrawler]

Make sure the size is right....size it correct and lube it with no leading

[robpete]

I'd skip the steel wool and go with a coarse bronze wool instead. It can be bought online or from a boating supply store. One bag will last a lifetime....and no shards like you get from cutting up chore boy. I use Ballistol and bronze wool for even the worst cases. Never let me down. (Thanks Glen Fryxell)