Large Bore Cast Friendly Cartridge

[youngda9]

I am interested in getting a big bore rifle in a cast friendly cartridge. I already cast and shoot 35 caliber...I want something larger. An African size big-boomer that can be loaded down and shot with cast (majority of the time due to cost). I don't want a super long action like a 375H&H. I want a standard length bolt gun. Perhaps this is limiting my choices too much.

The 375 Ruger and the 9.3x62 are the front-runners. The neck is only .305" long in these cartridges.

What other calibers should I be looking at?

[jmort]

.45-70 will smoke anything on earth and is cast/reloader friendly but I see you want bolt not lever so I say .458 Winchester

[338RemUltraMag]

With a standard length action a 375-06 would be #1 in my thoughts.

[338RemUltraMag]

Also I would look heavy at the 458 Win Mag

[jmort]

Me too

[youngda9]

458 Win mag...impressive. That throws a big hunk of lead. I wasn't thinking of going that large in caliber. I had a 45-70 lever gun (remlin) a while back that I sold off because it was junk.

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

Look at the .458 American. Much more efficient in reduced loadings than the .458Win Mag.

[white eagle]

you'll be surprised when you pull the trigger on a #1 in 45-70

['74 sharps]

an old Winchester model 70 in 458......better than money in the bank...

[DeanWinchester]

Siamese Mauser 45/70.

[Doc_Stihl]

458 American
450 Bushmaster
458 Socom

+1 on the 45/70 Mauser or a gibbs conversion of an SMLE.

[helice]

Dean Winchester beat me to the Siamese Mauser idea but that was my first thought, and Doc remembered the Gibbs built 45-70 SMLE action, which was my second thought. These two will take some hefty loads and when touched off they'll let you know that you are holding a rifle. Mausers and SMLEs make splendid hunting guns too.

[MarkP]

This is what I did a while back; it is based on the 300 WSM case. 400 & 315 gr shown far right in picture.



9415894159

[youngda9]

MarkP, that is a nice looking round. I really don't want to go with a wildcat though.

Are there any other roughly 40 caliber options?

Seems like 45-70 and 458 are quite popular.

[StromBusa]

444 Marlin, nice.

[MarkP]

Do you mind if it is a lever gun? 405 Win;

375-06, 400 Whelen somewhat tamed Wildcats, always thought a 350 Rem Mag necked to .416 would be nice could use a 350 RM & 416 RM reamer to chamber your bbl.

[DeanWinchester]

.40-65 or a .40-90

[LIMPINGJ]

450/400 3" Nitro Express and 405 Winchester in the Ruger #1.

[youngda9]

416 Ruger !!! .339" neck in standard action.

[btroj]

375 H&H

The longer action isn't a big deal. The cartridge has lots of data available. The longer neck is a good thing with cast.

There really isn't even a need for debate

[youngda9]

If you do the ratio of bullet diameter to neck length the 9.3x62 wins out between that and the 375 and 416 Rugers. I think that is all the gun I would ever need and it has much flatter trajectory than a 45 caliber rifle.

The 375 H&H beats them all with a 0352" neck!. Such a large cartridge requires a looong aciton and a lot of powder. Looks like a winner though.

[clintsfolly]

450Marlin in a bolt gun! Use a 7mm/300winmag donor and rebarrel and have fun. Can load mild to wild Easy to get cases,boolits and parts Clint

[tygar]

I am interested in getting a big bore rifle in a cast friendly cartridge. I already cast and shoot 35 caliber...I want something larger. An African size big-boomer that can be loaded down and shot with cast (majority of the time due to cost). I don't want a super long action like a 375H&H. I want a standard length bolt gun. Perhaps this is limiting my choices too much.

The 375 Ruger and the 9.3x62 are the front-runners. The neck is only .305" long in these cartridges.

What other calibers should I be looking at?

On the small end in .375, one of mine is a 375/338 on a 62 Browning Safari, it is slightly more powerful than the H&H & is very accurate.

Bigger is 416 Taylor or 458 WM. All good Africa/Alaska dangerous game guns. All on standard actions.

The trouble with the 375 & 416 is if you loose your ammo, your screwed. That 416 Ruger may be a better option but doubt if you can find ammo very easily for it either.

I really like my 375/338 & all my various 458s. Have a couple 416s but they don't get shot as much. The 375s my bear/moose caliber & 45s for anything from squirrel to elephant.

[Wayne Smith]

405 Win in the Mikoru 1895 Win - I have one. It is not a dangerous game rifle if you mean a guaranteed stopping round. That would be the 416.

[StrawHat]

The 411 Hawk is a 40 caliber on the 30-06 case. It is a good one for cast. I cast for a 405 WCF (Winchester 1895), it is another good 40 caliber. WIldcats are not all that tough to reload for, if you already reload. There are also a few 40 caliber blackpowder cartridges.

But for a big bore, bolt action, I would have to seriously look at the 450 Marlin. Easily loaded to 45-70 bolt action ballistics and not likely to be dropped into a weaker action. It is the standardized version of the 458 American.

[youngda9]

The 411 Hawk is awesome...I really like that. Requires custom dies...custom ream/barrel. Nice long neck and outstanding performance. You guys have givem me lots to think about. Thank you for all the inputs.

[NVScouter]

Most of you seem to not have seen he doesnt want a long cartridge like the 375H&H in his first post. The WINMAG cases are a bit shorter than H&H or Weatherby cases but not much. They sure arent short actions and barely work in standard actions.

That leaves you to WSM, Whelen, or 375 Styer calibers. Add in 45-70, .458SOCOM, and the awesomeness of the .405 and I'm all tingly. The good Roosevelt used that .405 on everything and loved it.

That being said if you want a Safari gun buy a Safari grade rifle in 375H&H or larger. There is a reason they were made and stayed the course through the decades. My 375H&H is a tad heavy but shoots like a dream and handles cast better than anything I own. Kills like a dream on whitetails to elk.

[NVScouter]

If you do the ratio of bullet diameter to neck length the 9.3x62 wins out between that and the 375 and 416 Rugers. I think that is all the gun I would ever need and it has much flatter trajectory than a 45 caliber rifle.

The 375 H&H beats them all with a 0352" neck!. Such a large cartridge requires a looong aciton and a lot of powder. Looks like a winner though.

My CZ550 Safari's action doesnt feel that much longer in cycling than standard Mauser. Yes its noticable but not awkward except prone is a bit. Powder isnt that bad I'm using between 34-45g of WIN760 for a 320g cast. Plenty of 30-06 cases burn about the same of other powders.

[9.3X62AL]

I don't know what "issues" are created by the 9.3 x 62's neck length, but in close to 2,000 rounds I have yet to see one emerge. Gunwriter bullsquat.

[tygar]

Most of you seem to not have seen he doesnt want a long cartridge like the 375H&H in his first post. The WINMAG cases are a bit shorter than H&H or Weatherby cases but not much. They sure arent short actions and barely work in standard actions.

As Scouter says, for lots of reasons the full length 375H&H 416RemM or 458 Lott, all the same basic case have been there for a long time for a reason.

But as he said he wanted standard action length those I mentioned fit, meet or exceed the originals in power & have plenty of neck for jacketed shooting the same bullets, can't say for cast but check the specs & see.

I know the wildcats named are indeed at least as powerful or more powerful than the originals & kill like a ton of bricks hitting a squirrel.

There may be slightly more recoil but I can't feel it. My 375/338 does not have a break & its easy to shoot from the bench & leaning into it. Just shot it a couple of weeks ago along with one of my H&Hs & there wasn't much difference if any. The 416 because of less overbore would probably be even less of a difference. These are like a lot of the current short mags, easy to get the same ballistics with a smaller case & less powder.

I've had a double in 9.3x74R & a Mauser in 9.3x62 & wasn't overawed by either. The 74R is pretty mild with a 286gr at about 2250, the 62 is better but about like a weak .338. The big problem is bullet selection sucks.

So again, as with Scouter, if you can handle the long action get the full length, you can always get ammo, if you want the standard length you have to go with wildcats.

With the 375 you can also do an improved case & still shoot the standard H&Hs in it. I'm having one of my Kleinguenthers rechambered for it, just for grins.

[youngda9]

I don't know what "issues" are created by the 9.3 x 62's neck length, but in close to 2,000 rounds I have yet to see one emerge. Gunwriter bullsquat.
The issue I was referring to is just that is only has a neck of .306 length. I would like something a bit longer neck just because it would be more cast boolit friendly. But after much research the 9.3x62 is the winner in my book. I like things a little different and I love the history of this round. It has the power and trajectory for me.

9.3x62 fires a 250gr Nosler accubond (Bc=.494 WOW) at 2650FPS, not that I would use such a bullet...plug that into your ballistic calculator ! Flat trajectory and hits like Thor's Hammer.

I need to find some cast boolit data on the 9.3x62. If anyone could help point me to some I would appreciate it.

[btroj]

Oh, I saw what he said about magnum length actions, I just think he is wrong.

A 375 H&H is hard to beat for shooting cast in a medium bore rifle. Period.

[bgreed]

.376 Steyer or 460 G&A The Steywr will push up to a 300gr slug the 460 500gr

[youngda9]

I don't want to get in a wizzing contest, but the H&H disadvantages far out weigh the advantages for me.

Advantages: Longer neck (from the 9.3x62 cast accuracy results I've read about I believe this isn't much of an issue). 150fps more with max loads, which I'll rarely use.

Disadvantages: Brass costs 50% more. Rifles generally more expensive from what I've seen. Rifles longer and heavier due to mag action length which I stated in the OP that don't want. Takes more powder (less efficient, costs more). I've read that brass life is an issue (I'll admit that I haven't researched this further to know anything about it).

[btroj]

The H&H doesn't need lots of powder, I use 27.5 gr of 2400 and some Dacron for good accuracy from a 265 gr cast in the 1700 fps realm.
Brass lasts plenty long, just don't full length resize and push the shoulder back each time.
Rifle cost is a factor but it is t any worse than a 9.3 x 62 most likely. Most of the others suggested are wildcats. 375 Ruger won't be any cheaper than H&H.

The H&H has tons of data for it and years of experience. Just don't count it out until you talk to those who own one. Lots here meet that criteria.

[MarkP]

The 9.3 x 62 is close to a 35 Whelen; 35 cal. would allow much greater boolit selection as compared to a 9.3mm.

[Charlie U.]

Also I would look heavy at the 458 Win Mag

After giving it a few minutes thought that's where I would look too.

[youngda9]

The 9.3 x 62 is close to a 35 Whelen; 35 cal. would allow much greater boolit selection as compared to a 9.3mm.

I have several 358 winchesters...I wanted to leapfrog the Whelen to something larger and more powerful. Something that will shoot heavier bullets yet still have decent trajectory (45 cal is no longer in consideration).

Thanks everyone for your input.

[btroj]

A 358 Win is about the ideal 200 yard cast bullet deer gun.

[Bigslug]

I have several 358 winchesters...I wanted to leapfrog the Whelen to something larger and more powerful. Something that will shoot heavier bullets yet still have decent trajectory (45 cal is no longer in consideration).

Thanks everyone for your input.

Sounds like you want a .375 then. A 9.3x62 isn't much of a jump from a Whelan, really. If you don't want to play the H&H game, the Ruger's your baby.

[wlc]

I've got a 416 Ruger. I named it thumper as it is, on both ends. Factory ammo is available, pricey, but available. New brass, or make your own from Hornady "basic" brass. Fits in a standard action. I'm just now starting to get into cast for it, but am having issues with my RCBS 416-350 mold at the moment and it is going back to the factory. No actual experience other than the factory fodder for now. I'm looking forward to shooting it with cast.

[9.3X62AL]

The issue I was referring to is just that is only has a neck of .306 length. I would like something a bit longer neck just because it would be more cast boolit friendly. But after much research the 9.3x62 is the winner in my book. I like things a little different and I love the history of this round. It has the power and trajectory for me.

9.3x62 fires a 250gr Nosler accubond (Bc=.494 WOW) at 2650FPS, not that I would use such a bullet...plug that into your ballistic calculator ! Flat trajectory and hits like Thor's Hammer.

I need to find some cast boolit data on the 9.3x62. If anyone could help point me to some I would appreciate it.

Be careful what you wish for. I've been told to STFU on here more than once concerning the 9.3 x 62 as a cast boolit caliber, because i have burned up a lot of bandwidth singing its praises on this site.

Yes, the 250 grain spitzers shoot right alongside the 30-06/180 grain spitzers as to velocity and trajectory--the difference is, the 9.3 hits with half-again more energy than the '06 does with the 180s at any given range--and the '06/180 combo is no slouch as a game-taker in its own right.

90%+ of the 2K rounds through my CZ-550 Lux have been castings, though. Most of these have been with a 270 grain Mountain Molds flatnose gas-check I designed on the Mountain Molds software to be a close fit to throat configuration, which features almost .300" of freebore before the leade rises up. I've also paper-patched some Lyman #358430s up to .368", and they shot very well. Finally, I obtained some samples of Lyman #366408 from a member here, and when sent at 1400 FPS these shot quite well.

How well do castings shoot? In this rifle, my MM boolit will stay inside 1.25 MOA to 200 yards, and that is a conservative estimate. I have fired MANY 5-shot groups at 100 yards that were 0.1" either side of 1.00". This is with eyeballed boolits, too--not scaled. Pet load currently is 23.0 grains of 2400, giving 1700 FPS with all-day recoil and near-1 MOA performance. I have only recently started "pushing" the velocity envelope with castings. Some lube issues with NRA alox/beeswax have cropped up over 2000 FPS, and I've begun scaling boolits to subtract that variable as much as possible for these upper-end loads.

J-words? The rifle DOES NOT favor the Speer 270 semi-spitzer, at all. It LOVES the Nosler Partition 286 grainer, though--it is an honest 1 MOA rifle with these. Same deal with the Nosler 250 spitzers--loves 'em.

[Bullshop Junior]

I would look into a 45 call of some sort. Just something impressive when you hit something with 400gn of lead

[youngda9]

Be careful what you wish for. I've been told to STFU on here more than once concerning the 9.3 x 62 as a cast boolit caliber, because i have burned up a lot of bandwidth singing its praises on this site.
AL, your writings and reports definetly helped sway me to the 9.3x62. Thank you for sharing all of the valuable information you've provided. :drinks: I like things a little different, handload everything, and only shoot cast boolits. I enjoy the challenge of getting a gun to shoot 2000+fps with a cast boolit. 286gr at 2100fps is about the limit of punishment I want to take firing off 50 or more rounds at the range. So I think that weight and bullet diameter is about right for some fun load development work. The less than 40 caliber proposition gives good BC and trajectory. I had a 45-70 and the trajectory was like lobbing a grenade. I'd really like to find a like-new Ruger in this caliber...with the wood stock and without the muzzle break the newer rifles seem to have.

[9.3X62AL]

Thank you for the kind words, sir. Check for PM.

[micky_blue]

There is a smith in Maine I think that can convert a Mosin Nagant into a 444 or 45/70. I think a 444 would be a great option, but if it was me I would convert it to 405. I have a couple 444s and love the idea of a bolt 405.

[tygar]

I am interested in getting a big bore rifle in a cast friendly cartridge. I already cast and shoot 35 caliber...I want something larger. An African size big-boomer that can be loaded down and shot with cast (majority of the time due to cost). I don't want a super long action like a 375H&H. I want a standard length bolt gun. Perhaps this is limiting my choices too much.

The 375 Ruger and the 9.3x62 are the front-runners. The neck is only .305" long in these cartridges.

What other calibers should I be looking at?

Ok guy, if you want a Ruger 375 or 416, CDNN has them on sale right now for $699 in the SS Alaskan model. Get hot that's a good buy.

You will need a FFL or someone with one to get it but if it wasn't the "Ruger" cartridge I'd jump on it myself.
Tom

been thinking, I might just get one for grins & see how it does

[jonp]

94536

TR's Big Medicine

[Ironduke]

CZ 550 Safari in 458 Lott. You can shoot puny 458 win through it like a 38 spl through a 357 Magnum. I shoot 550 gr hard cast and heavy 720 gr FN through it in addition to J bullets in the 500 gr range. The rifle is accurate, but no scope will hold together on it so far. Recoil destroyed a scope last year after just 8 shots; the whole ocular lens assembly came off and bounced off my forehead on the 8th shot.

I love the 45-70 govt, but you want a bolt gun. The Siamese Mauser isn't that easy to come by. My 45-70 is a marlin Guide Gun, and it's fun to shoot, quick handling and accurate. I shoot 460 and 550 gr hard cast through it with brilliant effect. I have been thinking of going down in weight to maybe 300 gr in a HP type mould to see what terminal effect I can achieve.

[MGySgt]

One thing you also have to think about is case/loaded ammo availability. Some of the calibers mentioned above - new cases could be 2 to 3 bucks or more a pop and you will have a hard time finding once fired cases for sale.

.458 Win Mag brass is available and with reduced loads the cases should have a long life.

[Dark Helmet]

416 Taylor .345 neck