Turkish Pull Down Powder

[KCSO]

I was recently given 10 pounds of powder from pulled down surplus turkish 8MM ammo. The powder was originaly loaded with 44-47 grains of powder under a fmj bullet. Has anyone else used any of this powder? Should I save it or reloading or just feed the fwers with it? It works all right in the 8mm rounds but was pulled as the owner didn't want to shoot corrosive primers and after he pulled the rounds apart he found out they were berdan primed so in disgust he gave the whole works to me.

[bruce drake]

Square cuts flakes? If so, that is a Turk copy of the German's original powder for the 8mm Mauser. Turkish 8mm loads were loaded pretty hot from the start so drop your charges a bit for cast loads. start with 30gr and develop ladder tests for most medium size cartridges. Turkish surplus ammo used to be pretty common and other members of this forum have re-used this powder before for cast loads. Try a search on the forum and you may find further data.

Bruce

[tomme boy]

I used to treat it as 4064 IMR

[Larry Gibson]

Use it. Burning rate is similar to 4895 & the mentioned 4064. Works well reduced with medium to heavy cast for caliber.

Larry Gibson

[Scharfschuetze]

Lucky you KCSO!

I pulled about a thousand rounds of the Turkish 8mm several years ago primarily for the bullets, but I've found the powder to be great stuff in several 30 and 31 calibre cartridges. I've also turned it back around and used it again in 8mm loads with cases formed from M-2 Ought-Six cases and non-corrosive primers with good results.

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

CAREFUL! I pulled 1400 rounds(all same headstamp). Loaded a few with a few grains less (as pulled) for an 8mm fireform load. Same 155gr FMJ. All went well for the first few rounds then had one that kicked like hell and locked a 98 bolt up tight. I was shooting across the chronograph at the time and had 3400fps! No more square flake for me.

[tomme boy]

Make sure to mix it up very well before you use it. That way you will have a consistent lot of powder. You never know if it was different lots of powder to begin with so make sure what ever you use to mix it up is NON-CONDUCTIVE so there is no static build up.

[Blammer]

since you know the 'general' charge and the wt of the projectile used in the 8mm, I would reload it with that charge and that wt bullet for good plinking practice ammo.

[bruce drake]

You or your buddy still have those surplus 8mm bullets? I use them in CMP vintage rifle matches and I'm down to my last few hundred of those old cupro-nickel 196gr boat-tailed sweethearts. I may have to switch to Remington's 185 PSPs if I can't find another stash of those bullets.

Bruce

[Scharfschuetze]

Bruce,

Before I pulled all those Turk bullets for use with non corrosive primers, I used the Remington 185 grain bulk bullet. It shot just fine in my Mausers. They were 2 MOA bullets in my WWII Mausers and my Yugos. Not quite as accurate as Sierras, but inexpensive (at the time) and good enough for government work.

[bruce drake]

Scharf,

Yes, the Turk pulled bullets are usually 2-3 MOA bullets but at a better price than the Remington 185s. The price of the commercial bullets are offset by the slightly smaller groups with the 185s versus my 196gr FMJs in with my Turk 1903 Mauser and my Oberndorf-built M98 and Commission 88/05 rifles..

Bruce

[220swiftfn]

Every now and then you can find surplus Yugo M-75, which has a nice 198gr boat-tail.....


Dan

[bruce drake]

Yugo milsurp 8mm will never meet the same price break as that old Turkish ammo but yes, the Yugo stuff is damn good.

Bruce

[KCSO]

Thank's all ... Yes I still have the bullets PM me if you want some.

[bruce drake]

PM sent! I would love to work out a nice deal on those bullets if you aren't planning to use them.

[bruce drake]

The Flake Powder for the 8mm s.S 197gr Turk ammo made prior 1950 was called Spandau Powder #682b. The German style powder, "Gewehr Blatchen Pulver", used from the 1890s through to WW II, was basically the same flake size throughout (2 x 2 x 0.4 millimeters); only the flame deterrent coatings changed to improve consistency. Similar powders were used in Austrian 8x50R, "S" type 8x56R, and the style of powder was also adopted by Turkey, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and basically anyone using "German" technology in the 1930s.

After Turkey joined NATO in 1950, American arms and ammunition was the primary means of arming the nation which caused many of the Mauser rifles and ammunition stores to be placed in storage until they were sold off as surplus in the 90s.

[Prospector Howard]

Ah, the good old days. I shot a buttload of this stuff when you could buy 1400 round cases for $79 from J & G in Prescott. I would stop by there when I was in the area and buy 2 or 3 cases at a time. That was the deal of a lifetime on blasting ammo. The only problem was they were loaded way too hot with about 48 grains. I started pulling them apart and reloading them with 40 grains with the 154 gr bullet and they were much more accurate and easier on the nerves. Then I loaded the excess powder back into Remington cases with the 175 gr Lee boolit. 26 grains of the Turk powder shoots about the same as my standard load of 20 gr of 2400 in my K98. I still have about 10 pounds of the powder left over that I'm working on and I've never had any problem with it.

[zuke]

since you know the 'general' charge and the wt of the projectile used in the 8mm, I would reload it with that charge and that wt bullet for good plinking practice ammo.

:goodpost:

[Larry Gibson]

Prospector

The turk ammo was sure a "steal" back then, little did we know.....should have bought a buttload more.......last case I got was .05 a round.......

However, it was not loaded "too hot" psi wise. I've measured the psi of numerous lot's of it from the late '30s to '51 and it is loaded to German standard. The psi runs 56 - 60,000 psi(M43). Right up there for sure but not too much for the M98.

A lot of the earlier Turk ammo (late '30s through '40s) would split the necks on firing or even when pulling the bullets. Some rounds also just had split necks. These also caused some stickiness to bolt opening. This is because the neck/shoulder area was not annealed during manufacture for what ever reason. Pulling the bullet and powder and putting them in WW cases results in the same velocity and psi but easy extraction. The cases are just brittle from age is all. A reduction of the powder charge by 5% results in the psi dropping to 49 - 50,000 psi and makes for a comfortable load with easy extraction.

Larry Gibson

[tomme boy]

The Turk ammo with the 154gr bullet was loaded to true German spec. When Germany went to the 198gr bullet that was when the round seemed more tame. Turkey also made the 198gr bullet in some of their ammo. It was after WWII. I had some and it was 53 or 54 if I remember right. The 154 gr ran 2950-3050fps out of a M38 Turk and the 198 gr ran 2550fps. In my M48 Yugo they dropped about 150fps.

A warning to the people that are reloading these using surplus bullets. Beware of the Romanian FMJBT in the steel cases. They are steel core and weigh 154grs, but are the same bearing surface as the 198 gr bullet. If you load these bullets make sure to use 198 gr data. If you use 154 gr data you might blow your primers. Ask me how I know.

[bruce drake]

Its a thing called a reloading scale. Always check your components :) And like Tomme Boy, I did the same thing with Armscor 62gr FMJs that were a little longer than the Mil-spec M855 that my original loads were built for in my AR. blew 5 primers out of a magazine of 20...

Bruce

[Shiloh]

I pulled mine down and reduced the charge 10%. I'll have to look at my records.
This was per that advice of a local shooter. He also shot cast with it by changing to a different powder.

Turk surplus ammo used to be dirt cheap and plentiful. No more. Saw 70 round bandoleers going for $25 at the last show. He only had about 5.
Think I paid $3-$4 for mine. If you bought several, the price came down.

Shiloh

[rexherring]

I pulled a bunch of the Turk 8mm a few years back and it was a triangular shaped powder. I just wanted the bullets so I did fertilize the garden with the powder. The loaded rounds did shoot well and I could hit the 200yd steel plate 4 out of 5 times with the open sights. Those Turk Mausers were quite accurate.

[KCSO]

Bruce and all... Honesty is the best policy...

I got ready to send some bullets to Bruce and when I opened up the box to do a rough count lo and behold, the box was not full of Turk bullets but boxes of factory new Hornady 6.5 bullets! Bow howdy my eyes lit up... then I called the fellow I got them from and he can't wait to get back here to give me the RIGHT bullets. And I could have used those 6.5's too. So Bruce have patience and you will get Turk bullets.

[bruce drake]

Honesty is the best policy...though I might have gotten in a bidding war for those 6.5s!!!!!!!!