231

[starmac]

Does anyone here use 231 powder in the 357 for lighter loads?

[Bzcraig]

I have some recipes written down but haven't tried them yet. I do like Trailboss for reduced loads though. Please post your results when you try it. W231/HP38 is one of my favorite pistol powders.

[lwknight]

It works great from rat thumper to butt kikker loads in th e 38 spl range but I would not try it with heavy bullets or 357 mag loads. 5.0-6.0 grains in a 357 mag case and 125-158 grain lead bullets are pleasant to shoot. you get 800-900 fps.

[wlc]

Its one of my favorite powders too, but I haven't loaded any in the 357 yet. I do use it in 38spl and in 9mm. 357 mag and max are next on the list when I get my 300BLK stuff worked out.

Edit: Just looked up a load on quickload for kicks and a LEE 358-158RF over 7 gr would get you 945fps out of a 3 inch barrel (Wifes sp101). Pressure would be 30461. They give max pressure for the 357mag at 35K. That load only fills the case to about 56% but does give 100% burn in the short barrel. That's probably a bit much on the powder charge as a half grain more gets you into max pressure. It also doesn't give good case fill IMHO. This is just an example. Use at your own risk as I have NOT tried this in any gun.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've loaded pounds and pounds of 231 in the 38 Special, but for light loads in the 357 Magnum (150 gr SWC at 1,000 fps), I like Unique powder.

[ubetcha]

4.0 gr 231 behind a Lee 357-158 rf w/bevel base. Nice shooting load in my 4" Ruger Security Six

[DRNurse1]

It works great from rat thumper to butt kikker loads in th e 38 spl range but I would not try it with heavy bullets or 357 mag loads. 5.0-6.0 grains in a 357 mag case and 125-158 grain lead bullets are pleasant to shoot. you get 800-900 fps.

??I use 5.9 in a 45ACP case over 230gr Pb boolits for 920FPS (a 'stout' load) so 6.0gr over a smaller diameter and lighter boolit should (mathematically) be a MUCH faster load. Are any of these listed in a reloading manual?

[dragon813gt]

I use it under the same 125 grain bullets I use in my 9s. It's scary accurate. I also use it to push 148 grain wadcutters. I only stock one non magnum handgun powder and it's W231/HP-38 because it works well in everything. It's no slouch in the 357 but it won't give you magnum velocities.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

4.5 grains behind NOE's 360-160WFN in my GP100= big fun

[jonp]

In the 38sp cases I use in my 357Mag BH and with some lighter boolits in 357Mag cases but I prefer other powders in the 357Mag.

[David2011]

It's my favorite for .44 Special because it leaves the bore so clean. Sorry; never tried for heavy .38/light .357.

David

[Outpost75]

Any well-established .38 Special +P load from one of the current manuals works well as a light .357 charge. Just stay away from reduced loads with the slower burning powders. Bullseye, 231, TiteGroup, Clays, 700-X, Red Dot, all work fine.

[lwknight]

??I use 5.9 in a 45ACP case over 230gr Pb boolits for 920FPS (a 'stout' load) so 6.0gr over a smaller diameter and lighter boolit should (mathematically) be a MUCH faster load. Are any of these listed in a reloading manual?
Big difference. When a 45 slug is seated, there is little case capacity with 6 grains of anything but a .357 case will hold 20 plus with bullet seated at depth. Powder charge is secondary to capacity and third is sectional density. A revolver also lets off gas from the cylinder gap. And then barrel length / burn rate matter a lot too. The way I see it that was comparing apples to oranges.
You will get higher pressure per given charge in a 45 ( even though its a lot bigger around) than you will a 357 considering that both use typical bullets.

[starmac]

All of my manuals have multiple loads listed in them using 231 in 38 special, but for some reason in 357 nothing is listed for a bullet weight above 120 gr.

I found on hodgdons site they have a load for a 156 gr cast lswc. listed is 3.4 starting to 5.0 max. What does the ls stand for.
There is a commercial reloader here that loads and sells target loads in several handgun calibers, including 357 and 44 mag with 231 and cast ww boolits. I have shot some of his ammo and it works, but I don't know what charges he uses. They are light enough that he considers them safe for any type of gun. I do know his 357 boolits that he uses comes out about 163 grains lubed.

[lwknight]

All of my manuals have multiple loads listed in them using 231 in 38 special, but for some reason in 357 nothing is listed for a bullet weight above 120 gr.
Manuals are designed to sell. Using .357 cases for light loads is not the popular thing to do even though it helps keep your cylinder clean at the throat. Personally , I just use 38 cases and clean the cylinder often.

[knifemaker]

lswc=lead semi wad cutter.

[geargnasher]

Does anyone here use 231 powder in the 357 for lighter loads?

I have, but my guns seem to prefer any powder to 231 or HP-38 accuracy-wise. When I think I need a powder in that burn rate, I grab Red Dot or Promo. 231 works fine, though, use .38 +P load data and .357 Magnum brass.

Gear

[dverna]

You can take any data for 231 in the .38 and use it in the .357 - larger case = less pressure.

But if using light loads why not save your .357 brass and use cheap .38's. I wound up selling almost all my .357 cases when prices went nuts. I hardly ever used the .357 cases. I shoot "target" loads most of the time.

A nice light load is 3.5 gr with the 125/130 gr cast bullet.

Don Verna

[geargnasher]

Some people are persnickety about those carbon rings, Don, other than that no reason. Within 50 yards, I've been unable to tell that the shorter brass makes any difference to accuracy.

Gear

[starmac]

lswc=lead semi wad cutter.

DUH,okay the light is on now. lol

And Don, probably one of the biggest reasons I don't use 38 brass, is I don't have any. lol

[rintinglen]

I've shot a fair few 150 grain MP 359- 640's with 5.5 grains of WW-231 in a .357. I have not run it over the chronograph, but my model 66 shoots them pretty well. More commonly, I use a lighter charge with a 148 grain wadcutter. 4.1 grains is what I recall but My notes are in the mancave, and I am ill dressed to go out there right now.

[454PB]

I checked my notes and found one chronograph listing for 231 in .357 magnum.

I'm not recommending this, because it appears to be WAY over any published load, but when fired from my Ruger Security Six with 6" barrel, the fired cases literally fell out of the cylinder.

The boolit was a commercial cast 145 gr. SWC (it's an H&G design) sized .358"
7.5 gr. WW 231
CCI 500 primer
WW brass
Avg. velocity 1286 fps.

[DIRT Farmer]

What is this 231 you speak of. I passed on an 8 pound jug two years ago, I was looking for a 4 pounder. I have not seen any in my area since in any size.

[Cherokee]

I shoot a lot of 231 in many cartridges. For 357 mag I have loads from 4.4 to 6.0 gr with boolits of 125 to 160. 6.0 pushing 155 gr 358477 read 1187 fps from my 8" Python. 5.1 pushing 168 gr 358429 read 1015 from the Python. 4.7 pushing a 125 gr Lee 358125RF read 825 from GP100 6". Don't recommend any of these, they work in my guns, shoot clean and cases extract fine. Work up your own loads for your guns.

[engineer401]

It worked fine for me. No complaints. I've also use Titegroup.

[Scharfschuetze]

Dirtfarmer,

Winchester 231 is a ball powder and as I recall Olin was instrumental in its development. It is the follow on powder to 230 which was discontinued sometime in the early 70s if memory serves me right.

It's a very useful powder in the 32 S&W, 38 Special and 45 ACP. In most applications, its burn rate is between Bullsey and Unique powders. Due to its relatively fast burn rate, it's most often used in lower pressure pistol cartridges or mild loads in magnum pistol cartridges.

If you run across another keg of it', its probably worth buying if you shoot a lot of 38s or 45s.

[Jeff H]

This may seem odd, but I have used a lot of W231 in several cartridges using the same charge weight. I use other charge weights of W231 but a good, balance working load always ends up gravitating to this charge weight. I am not suggesting anyone just use this charge weight thinking there's some magic to it, rather I just thought it was strange enough to mention for the sake of curiosity. I'm sure powders with similar burn rates can be as versatile but this is one I hit upon years ago and have stuck with.

Obviously, if you choose to use this information, double check against published reloading manual references and work up. What I do with mine may not be safe with yours.

5.5 grains of W231 in the .357 using various 158 grain cast and *125 grain cast - 16" carbine, 3" and 4" revolvers.

5.5 grains W231 in the 45 ACP using *230 and *200 cast - all the 45 ACPs I have owned, which is a lot - 3 1/2" to 5".

5.5 grains in the .44 Special using 200, 240 and *250 grain cast - all the .44 Specials I have owned, which is a lot - 3" to 6 1/2".

5.5 grains W231 in the .223 using 50 grain cast - 20" H&R w/1:12 twist, TBD in a 24" 1:9 CZ

All of the above loads seems to be "THE" load for these guns and if I really want to know if something will shoot, this is the load to try. Looking back over load notes going back through the early eighties, these loads seem to parallel loads using 6 grains of Unique but, as much as I like Unique, this particular load in W231 seems to work better. I've been using this for about twelve or thirteen years if I remember correctly. I've used it in the 30-30 with 170 grain cast but don't remember if it was astonishingly accurate. I have also been using it in a 16", 1:7 300 BLK with 98 grain cast (not in an AR) but have had issues with flyers I have to resolve before being able to give it the nod.

* My "go-to," everyday working load for these cartridges.

[lwknight]

Winchester 231 is a ball powder and as I recall Olin was instrumental in its development. It is the follow on powder to 230 which was discontinued sometime in the early 70s if memory serves me right.

Nope, its a conical flake.

[Scharfschuetze]

"Nope, its a conical flake."

Nope. It's actually a ball powder that is flattened in its manufacture.

http://www.wwpowder.com/pistol.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_powder

I've been loading and shooting 231 since its introduction in the early to mid 70s and still find it a useful powder within its design parameters. As you can imagine, when it was introduced back then, there was a lot of ink spilled in describing it and why it replaced Winchester 230 powder. Winchester (previously Olin) has been on the "ball powder" bandwagon for decades and even copyrighted the name. That's why Hodgdon and others call powders produced in the same manner spherical powders.

[upnorthwis]

Have used 231 for 25 years. As low as 3.2 gr. with 125 gr. in Ruger Blackhawk. Only problem I've had is that it seems to be temperature sensitive. Had the chono set up on a summer day to adjust the Dillon powder measure to get 650 fps. Then proceded to load thousands. Worked great until going to a match when temp was in 20's. Could see bullets coming out of barrel and they hardly made the plates move. Got home and set chrono up again. 350 fps.

[lwknight]

"Nope, its a conical flake."

Nope. It's actually a ball powder that is flattened in its manufacture.

Right you are. I knew it was not round balls like 760. I just never considered the flattened out balls that look like flakes to be actually ball type. I have been out of 231 for a good while so I just forgot that it was not so flaky like unique.
Oh well, I'm getting old and the CRS ( can't remember squat) seems to be creeping up on me these days.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I use W231/HP38 for all of my normal pistol loads.

5.2 gr over 165 gr boolit for .40 S&W, 5.7 gr over 230 gr boolit in .45 ACP, and 5.0 over a 190 gr Magma SWC in .44 Special. I have used it in .44 Spec and Mag cases with 240 gr 429421 style boolits as well.

It meters perfectly in Dillon measures and charges are easily +/-.1 gr from these devices. This equals less problems when running a progressive press.

I like in in the autos because it runs clean and in the revolvers because it runs clean too. one of my favorite pistol powders.

Randy

[35isit]

I was looking for a load in .357magnum for IHMSA field pistol. Had to be light recoiling. Settled on 3.2 grs of 231 in Starline brass and a WSPM primer and Ideal 148 wadcutter. Shooys great at 50 yards from my Contender on the bench with a 14 power rifle scope. Wish I could find some locally, I'm about out.

[Petrol & Powder]

231 is my "go to" revolver powder more due to availability and good metering than anything else. It flows well in a powder measure and performs well enough for me. It's good all-around pistol powder and I've burned many pounds of it in 38/.357 cases.

Lots of powders work and it's easy to start splitting hairs with equally small variations in actual performance.

[fredj338]

Sure, I use 38sp+p data in mag cases for plinkers. FWIW, flattened ball powders are termed shperical.

[ArchAngelCD]

Does anyone here use 231 powder in the 357 for lighter loads?

While I prefer using W540 (HS-6) for lighter .357 Magnum loads I have used a lot of W231 too.
My favorite is a 158gr LSWC bullet over 5.0gr to 5.2gr W231 using a CCI-500 primer.
Those loads have been very accurate in 4 different revolvers.

[DRNurse1]

??I use 5.9 in a 45ACP case over 230gr Pb boolits for 920FPS (a 'stout' load) so 6.0gr over a smaller diameter and lighter boolit should (mathematically) be a MUCH faster load. Are any of these listed in a reloading manual?


Big difference. When a 45 slug is seated, there is little case capacity with 6 grains of anything but a .357 case will hold 20 plus with bullet seated at depth. Powder charge is secondary to capacity and third is sectional density. A revolver also lets off gas from the cylinder gap. And then barrel length / burn rate matter a lot too. The way I see it that was comparing apples to oranges.
You will get higher pressure per given charge in a 45 ( even though its a lot bigger around) than you will a 357 considering that both use typical bullets.

Sorry, a little slow here. Of course the gap is a factor on revolvers! I shoot Model 52-1 so did not even think about the revolvers. My mistake.