Mystery alloy.

[Adam10mm]

Casting today with 50/50 lino/WW. One pound of each for a total melt of 2#. Temp at 750-800. Good boolits. Towards the last little bit of melt, this is the crap I saw.

*** is this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Boolit%20Casting/DSC02885.jpg

Scraped out after fluxing
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Boolit%20Casting/DSC02884.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Boolit%20Casting/DSC02896.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Boolit%20Casting/DSC02894.jpg

Had about 4-5 big serving spoons full of the stuff. The boolits cast fine. Was running a Lyman 378674 335gr RN for the Holland. Came out at .378-.3825 weighing between 316-319gr.

I gotta run to work. Be back at 11pm EST. Thanks guys.

[tomf52]

Looks like someone went poo-poo in the wrong pot.

[whisler]

Looks like someone went poo-poo in the wrong pot.

Wouldn't that cause a visit from the tinsel fairy?[smilie=1:

[454PB]

Was that a measured 750 to 800 degrees? If so, it's pretty hot for that alloy. I normally cast down around 600 to 650 with that alloy. Did you flux well before casting?

[bearcove]

Looks like ferrous oxide. Our old friend.

[Adam10mm]

Was that a measured 750 to 800 degrees? If so, it's pretty hot for that alloy. I normally cast down around 600 to 650 with that alloy. Did you flux well before casting?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Boolit%20Casting/DSC02886.jpg

There's the pic I took when I first noticed it. I had good boolits pretty much the whole casting session. The whole pile of 50 boolits look like this one. ETA: I made a 3/4# ingot to test for hardness and the ingot and boolit test at 22-23 BHN on the CT tester.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Boolit%20Casting/DSC02897.jpg


I tried to cast low at that temp before with my Lee 459-500-FNGC and they were all wrinkled. People I talked to said I need a hot mold and hot melt, about 700-800 degrees and cast like no tomorrow once the mold heats up. So I applied the same to this as the alloy is the same I used with the 45/70 boolits. Didn't have problems like this.

I fluxed with bullet lube like normal. The only variables are a different mold and hotter temp. Towards the end of the session I turned it down to a measured 650-675 and still had the same results.

[Adam10mm]

Oh, yeah. Here's a fluxing pic I forgot to post. I have a mirror thread over at GTR on this same thing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Boolit%20Casting/DSC02891.jpg

[454PB]

That's a pretty high BHN for 50/50 lino/WW. Are you sure it's linotype? I ask because I had a similar experience with some babbitt that was given to me as "linotype", and it had some copper in it.

I would try a larger pot of alloy, set the temperature at 650, flux and leave the dross on top, and preheat your Lyman mould before casting.

[mtgrs737]

With that high of BHN and the looks of that crud it might be copper with some other metals too. I'd scrape it clean and cast with some other alloy.

[Lloyd Smale]

looks like rust to me. Also looks like some on the sides of your pot. Is it possible that stuff was allready sitting at the bottom of your pot before you added the new lead. Id give that pot a good work over with a wire wheel and then try it again.

[Adam10mm]

That's a pretty high BHN for 50/50 lino/WW. Are you sure it's linotype? I ask because I had a similar experience with some babbitt that was given to me as "linotype", and it had some copper in it.

I would try a larger pot of alloy, set the temperature at 650, flux and leave the dross on top, and preheat your Lyman mould before casting.

You're telling me. I am beginning to be convinced that it isn't lino. The first thing I thought of when I saw this was, WTH is that-copper?

What is weird is that everything floated to the top but the boolits look great. It was my first time with the mold. I did a "speed smoke" to the mold. I set the mold on the pot while it heated up. Then when it was time to flux, I opened the mold a bit and fluxed while burning the fumes (see big ass fllame pic). The soot from the fluxing went into the mold cavity and after three casts it was perfect.

[Adam10mm]

looks like rust to me. Also looks like some on the sides of your pot. Is it possible that stuff was allready sitting at the bottom of your pot before you added the new lead. Id give that pot a good work over with a wire wheel and then try it again.
Possibly. There was the 1/8th inch leftovers from the last session in the bottom with a few boolits that got messed up at sizing tossed in.

[STP]

I get the same stuff from time to time. I call it "road debris"...from ww that has not been cleaned well enough. Also, 800* does seem a bit much for that mix.

[shooter575]

I also get the same "crap" when I get to the bottom of a pot of aloy. The Lee pots get hotter as the lead level goes under the 1/2 way mark. Bits of the pot itself,stuff missed during fluxing,lead oxide and what ever comes out of solution is all there. Just throw that stuff into the oxide can and reclaim it during your next smelting session. About 90 % of that sluge is recoverable. Keepint the pot over 1/2 full will help also.

[lathesmith]

This past week I had an oatmeal-consistency stuff "float" to the top; maybe 1/2-1lb worth in a 20 lb pot. It was mostly dull grey color, with the usual mix of black and brown scum. After scimming, the pot would form a very bright, metallic-purple or blue coating on top. I was using alloy of unknown composition; I figure I got hold of maybe some zinc, or copper, and possibly some crap from battery lead. Fluxing had little or no effect on this stuff; and like f10mm, I was able to cast a pot-full of nice bullets. This stuff is hard to figure out sometimes...I just keep casting, as long as the results are good. What else to do?
lathesmith

[ANeat]

Freak it may be nothing but I notice that your thermometer needle is dragging the face between 750 and 800. May not matter, I would pull it out of a hot pot and see how smooth the needle returns.

I have some of your Lino and if Im not mistaken it actually checked around 27bhn on my Lee tester. Made me wonder if there might have been some mono type other kind of type metal mixed in. Ill double check it later.
Adam

[Adam10mm]

I tested a boolit and ingot on the CT tester and got a reading of .095" (27-28BHN) on the boolit and .092" (23-25BHN) on an ingot I cast out of the rest of the melt for hardness testing.

This lino was out of the same batch as I sent you.

Let me know what you find out.

[yammerschooner]

finally tagging in for giggles and info.

[454PB]

I've used straight monotype, and it does produce the "oatmeal" appearance while melting. However, that gold hue sure looks like copper (or copper oxide) to me, and I've not seen any of that in my monotype.

[ANeat]

Ok Freak and everyone else, If that stuff you sent me wasnt quenched it is not just your regular old lino. I checked a couple of the ingots you sent me and both check in the 27/28 bhn range. I have some other lino that is genuine, actual hunks of the lino ingots from a friend and former print shop owner. It checks at 21bhn like it should.

Here is a chart of the various typemetals. As you can see there is quite a variety.
Im not sure which one you may have gotten your hands on.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/aneat/Lead/TypeMetal.jpg

[ANeat]

Did a little more research and my initial guess is that you may have Monotype which is supposed to be 28bhn. Its 9%tin 19%antimony and 72%lead. If that is the case Monotype mixed 50/50 with lead would be a very good or even to good of a mix in my opinion. Even more lead could be added to get down to a antimony level that gets the hardness you need. 6% antimony is a popular number for a lot of commercial bullets. A lot of guys get by with a lot less as WW are supposed to only be 3% antimony.

Of course Im still not sure what the crud you got out of that pot is.

I do know that you could stretch that monotype out a lot better than just cutting it 50/50 with WW[smilie=1:

[Adam10mm]

I have some lead sheets I can mix with it. Need a turkey fryer and all that jazz. Found a 3/4 filled propane tank in the garage I forgot about. Been using it as my heater for casting out there now.

[Trez Hensley]

Foundry type has copper in it and from what I gather from other posts and the printer that I got mine from, the very small type (10-14Pt) is foundry type. There are several different foundry types but one of the foundry types has a composition of:

Tin 13%
Antimony 25%
Arsenic .06%
Copper 1.5%
Lead 60.44%

BHN??? Hard Hard Hard

[ANeat]

I agree about the foundry type Trez. I just wonder if he may have gotten a little of both, foundry type and lino or some other type metal; mixed them together and ended up with what he has now. From what Ive read foundry type is 30bhn and this stuff is not that hard. That would be a good explanation of the crud.

Freak if you want a good mix get your pot cleaned out and cast up some pure ingots. If I recall the lee 20 pound pot only holds 17 or so.

Assume what you have is monotype or close to it. 12 pounds of pure and 5lbs of the monotype. That should get you 2.65% tin 5.59%antimony and the rest lead.

[leftiye]

Yammerschooner - Ya can pick yer frends. Ya can pick yer nose. But ya cain't pick yer frends noses. Sez who?

Four to one lead to that 28 BHN monotype metal would be plenty hard still. If not, water drop it or heat treat it . It will come out about BHN 22.

[deltaenterprizes]

That is DROSS,a mixture of lead and dirt most probably from the dirty wheel weights.

[Adam10mm]

WW were clean ingots.