Hypothesis of fanaticism

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, here goes. We’ve all read posts about revolvers vs. pistols, 45ACP v. 9mm, steel v. plastic, etc.
We all know that those strong feelings exist but my question is - what are those opinions rooted in? What causes such opinions to form and why does it reach fanatical levels at times?
My theory is a mixture of nostalgia and reality.
Please, hang with me here!
We all bring something to the table. As we get older we mix what we know from the past with what we are currently learning. We apply different experiences to that base of knowledge. For example: someone that learned to shoot a handgun by starting with a 1911 pistol may start from a different perspective than someone that learned on a revolver. (Nostalgic influence on opinion) Someone that transitioned from a revolver to a semi-auto may decide that for them, the pistol has merit due to capacity (personal reality)
My hypothesis is that these opinions are deeply rooted in a COMBINATION of what we are comfortable with and what we accept as reality in our world. Capacity, Caliber, action type, reliability, materials, etc…. the list goes on forever.
I admire the brilliance of John Browning and think the 1911 is a great design but I am far from wedded to it. I’ve owned a bunch of 1911’s, carried one for a while but I don’t think it’s the end all, be all of hand guns. That statement would be blasphemy to some 1911 fans. I love well-made revolvers ever though a Glock has high capacity and is almost as simple. More blasphemy.
SO – The question is: What drives out fanatic attitudes?

[jmort]

Bad childhood experiences. Seriously, it is complex subjective human nature.

[Geppetto]

"what we are comfortable with", probably a big factor there. Sometimes opinion is based upon concrete data. Although that concrete data is often based upon *YOUR* experience. Some people have small hands, may make certain guns less comfortable to shoot, therefore, those guns are no good.

Also some of it is probably just plan stubbornness. I for one, have a streak of frowning upon things that I perceive as trendy. Therefore, I will likely never own a 40 S&W, a 300 win mag, or a 6.5 creedmore. All well performing calibers, no doubt, but I have no interest in them at all. I also have no particular interest in 44 magnums...don't know why...probably because its been touted for so long as the catch all for bigger bore revolvers. On the other hand, I love my 30-06, which is arguably one of the most popular rifle rounds ever. I don't feel the need to justify my hypocrisy, I just go right along my merry way and try not to spur any pee-ing matches.

Good thoughts above.

[goodolejim]

I carried a 1903a3 for drill for four years of high school ROTC. Learned to field strip a 1911a1, Mi rifle, M1 Carbine,and a BAR. Shot a M1 while attached (peace time) to the Marine Corps as a Navy FMF Corpsman. Still believe the M1 and 1911a1 are the first choice of weapons. Old age and nastalgia have forced me to buy 1903a3 amd a 1911a1. Keep on thinking a M1 sure would look good in my gun safe.

Semper Fi

Doc Olive

[Petrol & Powder]

Yes, people are complex.

[youngda9]

Tried many, settled on what worked best and pointed the most naturally for me.

Why overthinking it, LOL.

[btroj]

I have gone thru stages. I gain and lose interest in specific things from time to time.

I can see benefits and negatives to almost any firearm type. I like a 9mm for easy shooting, a 1911 in 45 ACP for sheer fun, a 357 for easy reloading and brass control, but can see where a Glock can be nearly indestructible.

The key is to realize that we all have a certain perspective on things. I may look at practicality, someone else likes "firepower", another likes big calibers. None are wrong, they all just have a different perspective.

I have been harassed because I don't load everything to the gills. Doesn't bother me really, I don't shoot to make other people happy, I shoot for my own pleasure.

[Petrol & Powder]

All good points, but why do some people have mere opinions while others have fanatical arguments ?

[mold maker]

I like what I like,,, while I like it. After a while I like something else. I now have safes full of former favorites, but none are disliked. Each was purchased for a different reason, and they all get a turn at the range. But less often now, as the collection grows. The only type guns not represented yet, are Glock and the AR platform.

[btroj]

All good points, but why do some people have mere opinions while others have fanatical arguments ?

Human nature. Sometimes I get fanatical, sometimes I am indifferent. Depends on my mood. Cabin fever also can make people look for entertainment, this can lead to battles and fanaticism.

I try not to get fanatical about my fanatical arguments.

[Petrol & Powder]

.........

I try not to get fanatical about my fanatical arguments.

Good policy!

[dragon813gt]

My take is that it's human nature at a primitive level. For most of our existence we lived in small tribes. This means we have had to pick sides to survive. Otherwise you would end up dead. It's a survival extinct that we haven't evolved out of yet. The caliber argument is a moot point. Because it goes much deeper than the question. Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar? Foreign vs Domestic. And all the sports rivalries. They are the same question as 9mm vs 45.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have gone thru stages. I gain and lose interest in specific things from time to time.
...snip


I sure can identify with this. I've now settled on revolvers, 41 is my fav of the day ;)
I just hate picking up brass.

[Petrol & Powder]

I can disagree with someone and expect others to disagree with me. The "you're a total moron if you don't agree with me" attitude - isn't very effective at winning me over to their view.

[pal82]

What drives out fanatic attitudes?

Myopia.

[btroj]

Myopia.

Yes. The idea that only one right way exists.

My father in law and I do many things different in reloading and casting but we both get good results. We share ideas and each have changed a few things because of that difference.

[Wayne Smith]

That's not fanaticism - I don't know anyone who is willing to die for those choices. Or to kill for them. European football (soccer) is another thing, there fanatics who are willing to do both and do. There are those with a settled and confident faith who need neither to die or kill, but are willing to do both if necessary. This is not fanaticism. There are those of insecure faith who feel the need to destroy all who do not agree with them. That is fanaticism - I am absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong and YOU MUST CHANGE. None of those three premises are valid.

[Blacksmith]

If you continue to learn and think opinions can change often several times. Until my opinions change again my answer is each has its place because some are better for one thing than another.

The ones who refuse to listen to an opinion other than their own yet can't give specific logical reasons for those "Correct" opinions I won't even discuss things with. It would be like teaching a pig to sing.

[bhn22]

John Wayne never carried a Glock.

I have tried Glocks in every frame size offered, and they simply don't make a gun that shoots where I look. 1911s do everything I ask, and I must have the only reliable 1911s in the world. I saw a guy on another forum that had a 1911 bubba'd by an unknown gunsmith, and it was the guns fault when the hammer followed if he dropped the slide (no-no!) on an empty chamber. The guy decided that should never happen under any circumstances, and that it was a bad design.

[monadnock#5]

Indian Mysticism. The Big Wheel concept. All societies start with a premise that whatever is always right can never be wrong. Ergo, if something is not always right, it is forever and unforgivably wrong. Then the wheel starts turning.......

This is not a bad thing. It is the way of humanity. If the wheel should ever lock up however, we're done for.

[Jammersix]

If a certain weapon saves your life, you won't ever want a different type.

That is exaggerated in the case of XM16/M16-1911s. (Although I've never read a documented case of that particular progression. Heard several claims, but never seen documentation.)

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, so fanatical may have been the wrong word. Stubborn to the point of anger may be a better term. We all have our preferences but some people seem to think if you don't share their preference you need correcting.
My premise was that comes from a combination of old knowledge (nostalgic info, everybody knows that!) and new learning (I learned this and you need to accept it also) But that's just a theory.

[Bloodman14]

We are discussing this type of phenomena in my advanced psychology class in school; it's the old 'nature vs. nurture' argument.

[ShooterAZ]

It's the "old school" way of thinking. If it worked for Grandpa and Dad, it must be the best.

[KCSO]

I have carried in combination and individually a 1911, a Browning Hi Power and a Smith and Wesson revolver for about 42 years now. I have shot numerous living creatures from big to small with each gun and feel at home with any of them. I carry a 1911 mostly just because I shoot it marginally better than anything else, but if I were stuck with my 357 for the rest of my life I wouldn't have fits of agony. I started with a revolver and when i wrote a proposal that police be armed with semi auto's in 1972 I was almost hung from a lamp post.

I won't get into the myth of stopping power but will only say that a 22 will kill reliably IF you put the bullet in the exact right spot every time.

Bottom line is you need to carry what makes you feel safe and what you can shoot the best.

[captaint]

I don't think we can compare Glocks and revolvers in terms of simplicity. I mean, how many revolvers (good ones, anyway) have been recalled lately ?? Actually, I like them all. Well, OK, not the plastic ones. Mike

[DeanWinchester]

Much of this stems from tunnel visioned stubbornness and ignorance. An unwillingness to change. I am case in point. From the time I started shooting and enjoying handguns at 19-20 years old until I turned 30 or so, I was a devout 1911 disciple. I was one of the biggest most outspoken Glock hating, plastic bashing guys around. I hated polymers and laughed at the lowly 9x19.
It never occurred to me that my piss poor accuracy and less than perfect reliability in a few of those pistols was anything to worry about. Not sure the exact moment but I started shooting a Glock 19 in 9x19 and I was flabbergasted at how well I could shoot it. I'm the exact opposite now. To me, the 1911 is the sexiest, classiest most beautiful, antiquated overweight and outdated design on earth.

I think there are people on all sides of the argument that are failing to see that every gun has it' strengths and weaknesses. I don't' think a Glock or a S&W M&P could be built to be MORE accurate than a finely tuned 1911. Certainly they will NEVER look as nice. I don't care how many thousands you invest in a 1911 though, it's silly to think it'll ever be MORE reliable than an out of the box Glock. Also, the old saying, revolvers don't jam, Oh yes they do. Anything mechanical can and will given time, fail.

In the end, there's only one reasonable way to settle the debate between Plastic vs Steel/Auto vs revolver. You must shoot all (many) of them and find the one that makes you happy. I can't shoot a revolver well. Never have. I need only google Jerry Miculek to understand the reason why I can't shoot them is all ME myself and I.

It goes a lot further too. The gun culture are as silly and superstitious a lot as a bunch of Salem pilgrims. THere's an outstanding rule here in the land of Dixie, "My grandpappy did it this way, so it's good as Gospel." Trying to say different can lead to anything from hard feelings to a roll in the gravel.

[dbosman]

Fanatical is the key word.


All good points, but why do some people have mere opinions while others have fanatical arguments ?

[Col4570]

We all enjoy the firearm from many perspectives,but in the cool light of day if your life depended on the weapon pure firepower and accuracy wins the day.Advanced weapons technology is paramount and could be the deciding factor in a tight spot.On the other hand no one can deny the elegance of a colt Percussion Revolver or a pair of Dueling Pistols.From my point of view I go for the later since I have no wars to fight.So the debate seems to go between the efficient and the romantic plus the use we require from these machines.

[btroj]

Never, ever forget the fact that some people are just jerks, idiots, or worse.

[DeanWinchester]

Never, ever forget the fact that some people are just jerks, idiots, or worse.

Preach it reverend!!!!

[Petrol & Powder]

Never, ever forget the fact that some people are just jerks, idiots, or worse.

You know, it may be as simple as that.
This thread isn't about one gun vs. another; it's about the way some people can disagree but still act like adults and some are just jerks, idiots or worse.

[castalott]

"A fanatic is one who would do what God would do if he knew the facts of the case."
(I believe it is from Ambrouis Bierce "The Devil's Dictionary")
I don't know how to explain shooters/casters. If you really want to go off the deep end- please explain women to me...

[monadnock#5]

It's a phenomenon I first identified when one of my buddies, way back in my wild and impetuous youth, bought a Harley and encouraged me to join the fun. It was funny in a way. At the bar, everyone who owned a Harley was one big band of brothers, ricerocketeers be hornswoggled! Amongst themselves, the guys who owned pre AMF models (the REAL ones) treated each other like royalty, while the others, maybe not so much.

In the end it's the old "ARE YOU ONE US, OR ONE OF THEM" gambit, that run amok, brings the world nothing but grief.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've owned several motorcycles over the years but never a Harley. I am always amused the way HD owners claim strong individualism and then go to extremes to be Exactly like every other HD owner!
The "are you one of us or one of them" was most evident when I rode a German bike. At least when I was on a Japanese bike they would acknowledge my presence. :grin:
I guess the same thing exists with gun stuff. Either you're just like me and therefore correct :wink: or you're some insane, idiotic fringe element !

[phonejack]

For those who have had to actually use a firearm, it's hard to transition to a different platform or caliber.

[monadnock#5]

I should also point out that sometimes I can be way oversensitive. There have been a few very, very intelligent people in my life that I could talk to and walk away from and not feel in any way minimized or mentally challenged to the point of moron status.

Then there are others......need I go on?

Sometimes you gotta endure the abrasive personality, learn what you need to know, and hope you don't have to go back any time soon for another helping of brilliance with a side of malignant narcissism.

[Mal Paso]

I just accept the fact that most people wouldn't recognize The One True Caliber if it bit them on the butt.

[fryboy]

shouldnt this topic be of religion as opposed to firearms ? to the jews any non-jew is a gentil ...to the muslims any non-muslim is a infidel , to the early christian settlers any native american was a heathen and a savage .....( speaking of savages .... at least they make guns lolz ) the true believers of any religion ( or of guns ) knows that there are others , they may of course prefer theirs to yours but they dont blasphemy yours and your choices ( which btw is exactly what a fanatic does ) and again it's not the true believers who are the problem but the fanatics
i see it alot with the equipment snobs , many bash a product that they never tried and do so so vehemently that it's rather easy to tell just how blind and closed minded they really are , at the next level are those who state that such and such company makes but one good product and everything else is junk [shrugz] a good example in firearms is ye lowly humble hi-point pistols ...i've heard curse upon curse bestowed on the homely things and i can recall how many times i have read of a non-believer's amazement when they finally shoot one ( but until then they are worthless pieces of cheap junk ...[sigh] )
i've always found it funny how many folks like to tell a man who is actually doing something that it can not be done
mankind is also very resistant to change - even change for the better , there are still a few ( very few) that believes smokeless powder is just a passing fad ..
what makes a man stubborn ? my best guess is subjective history blended with rose colored glasses coupled with resitance to change, nope it doesnt do much to explain why a ford guy says " ford is #1 and everything else sucks " ( ditto for the diehard chevy/mopar/harley/colt/smith/win/rem/baptist/etc guys ) everyone of those things is just a tool and a fanatic will blast any tool but their choice , a thinkin' feller however will state "if it works for you it works - let's git-r-dun", leading me to suggest - see how easy it is not to think ?

:kidding:

[btroj]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?227350-2-Employees-in-a-Gunshop-Never-Heard-of-Elmer-Keith

Here is a good example. People not able to see that others may not share a point of view or level of interest. Doesn't make them bad people, just a bit narrow minded.

Failure to understand that we are all individuals and we are all different. No two of us on this site share views on all topics or levels of interest yet we somehow manage to make this site work.

At some point we can either decide to agree to disagree or we can become oafish trolls.

[wv109323]

Culture, experience (or lack thereof), education(or lack thereof) and prejudice play a large part in our behavior and belief system. You can notice it in politics,brand preference, sports team allegiance and religion just to mention a few. Also in our culture to be right ,everyone else has to be wrong. (And everyone likes to be right)
People only remember what reinforces their views or what they"want"to believe. Also we segregate ourselves socially where our friends are very close to our own beliefs which just reinforces everything.
Thus people can cling to beliefs that are not supported by true logic and the facts.

[blackthorn]

Fryboy said "why a ford guy says " ford is #1 and everything else sucks " ( ditto for the diehard chevy/mopar/harley/colt/smith/win/rem/baptist/etc guys ) everyone of those things is just a tool and ------"

So a Baptist is a tool??? Now that there aint a very nice thing to say atall!! Don't know how to post the "chain - yank".

[fryboy]

lolz eh it was the first religion that popped in me feeble noggin ( nothing personal against baptist or any other religion was meant intended and hopefully not conveyed ) religion however indeed can be or become a tool ( see comment about early white americans dismissing native americans as heathens etc and the implications thereof ) oddly enough many believe as ye ancient indians did - one great spirit ( be it god allah etc ) yet there are those whom worship the same "one supreme being" yet carry disdain for any other who doesnt see it "exactly" as they do , history is full of such examples and supposedly america was founded so that we may worship as we ( the individual ) sees fit [shrugz] a cloak is but a instrument ( eg; another name for a tool ) i have no complaint of those that hold to their chosen religion but every complaint of those who wear it as a cloak and only when it suits them ( an example would be - it's ok if i drink to excess tonite as long as i confess and say a penance etc ) in such as those ...yes a tool

[fatelk]

Speaking of angry, fanatical opinions, how about the old clip/magazine issue?

Dare mention a 1911 clip around a bunch of gun enthusiasts and see what kind of reaction you get. If they are kind and understanding they will silently feel sorry for the ignorant newb that doesn't know that it's a cardinal sin to call a "magazine" a clip. If they are not are not so kind and understanding they will glare at you or call attention to your stupidity, while wishing they could physically assault you.

I never really understood this intense, knee-jerk reaction to terminology, especially since "clip" is, or at least used to be, correct terminology for a pistol magazine. Then someone explained the history to me. Back in the day, "clip" was just fine for a detachable box magazine.

Along came WWII and the M1 rifle and M1 carbine. Two different M1s with two different rounds and magazines could be a logistical problem. If someone called for "M1 clips" and got '06 ammo instead of the carbine rounds they needed, or vice versa, soldiers could die. So, it was beat into a generation of soldiers (sometimes literally) that you must NEVER call a detachable box magazine a clip. Down through the decades and generations, this reaction has stuck and persisted.

[btroj]

A magazine feeds rounds into the action of a firearm. A clip is used to feed the magazine. There is a difference.

[fatelk]

Yes, I know all the whats, whys, and hows of clips and magazines. I wasn't trying to start an argument about it, just saying that it is a historical fact that "clip" used to be considered perfectly correct terminology for a pistol magazine. Now it is a dirty word in the wrong context. The fact that half of you all probably saw red just reading my post just makes my point for me. :)

Please don't hate me, just a little history and maybe something of an explanation as to why so many folks get so irrationally worked up over this issue. :kidding:

[btroj]

Fanaticism isn't about right and wrong, it is about semantics.

A clip and magazine are different but can anyone prove a Ford is better than a Chevy?

[DCM]

"Clip" a term often misused by the mainstream media and spewed forth from gang bangers and wanna be gang bangers.
I got a thuty round clip.

Hmm wounder why it chafes.

[fatelk]

A clip and magazine are different
Semantics. Yes, I understand the difference and it has been beaten to death but it is just semantics. I'll call my 1911 mags "clips" just for fun; you may say I'm wrong and stupid, but it is just semantics.

Yes, by modern terminology it's not technically correct, but that's not really even my point. My point is the angry, borderline violent reaction some people have to it. I saw one guy go off once at someone at a gun show over it to an insane degree that had to have been a pavlovian response resulting from a beating from a DI in the guy's past. :(

I was always a Chevy guy growing up, because that's what my dad drove (not one of those dang Found-On-Road-Dead trucks). Now I like my Toyota because it just plain keeps on going forever, though I don't have any problem with folks who like Fords, Chevys, or even Volkswagens. A good friend only has VWs and thinks everything else is so much scrap metal, with the possible exception of Porsche (since they're really just a VW after all). His folks drove a VW growing up.

I've never understood sports fanatics, or even sports loyalties for that matter. It just doesn't make any sense at all to me. I do realize that I'm the wierdo in that regard, though. Most guys have sports loyalties. I realize that that's quite normal and I'm the odd one out there.


"Clip" a term often misused by the mainstream media and spewed forth from gang bangers and wanna be gang bangers.

I agree with you there, and don't care much for Hollywood, wannabes, and gang-bangers either, but as stupid as they sound their terminology is not really as far off as we like to think. I'm not saying that they are not ignorant or that the usage is not archaic, just that it used to be correct.

Sorry for the thread drift. It seemed relevant to the conversation but I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

[btroj]

Sports are a good example. I have teams I root for but the level of angst some feel after a loss is ridiculous. It is a dang game.

Some of it boils down to people losing sight of what really matters. If you want o use a really hard alloy and a crappy lube it doesn't really affect me much. It doesn't alter my ability to live, it doesn't affect my family, and it doesn't attack my religious or other beliefs. In short, I don't really care. I may tell you your method is wrong but I try not to get overly worked up over it.

Heck, in the end I shoot for fun. When it stops being fun I will quit.

[felix]

"Clip vs magazine" to me is not nearly as offensive as "there vs their vs they’re" which is becoming obvious everywhere, including the newspapers around here. Is it part of the dumbing down of America? ... felix

[btroj]

Come on Felix, their is no there, they're......

[jsizemore]

What you call fanaticism is seen as common sense by the practitioner.

[Col4570]

Do,nt interfere with peoples choices and likes.I enjoy my type of shooting as others will their own.Obsessive critics can be annoying to those on the receiving end.I just get on with it and close my ears to any bombastics that might be in the vicinity.

[Socal147]

One of my revolvers is better than all of your guns together. My Glock 21 is the best home defense gun in the world. And all of my rifles are the best, plus some. Please try to get over these simple facts.

[smokeywolf]

I was raised shooting Colts and Winchesters. Dad had one Remington 550, which was actually mom's. He also had a couple of shotguns that were not Winchester, a Garand and a couple of Springfield muskets. Aside from 3 or 4 Winchesters, all else was WW I-ish or before and much was pre 1900.
I've never had a desire or inclination for a modern gun; certainly not a "black gun". Now I'm starting to consider possibly acquiring an AR platform after we sneak out of Cali and back into the U.S.

smokeywolf

[leftiye]

All good points, but why do some people have mere opinions while others have fanatical arguments ?

Probly cuz that's the kinda people they are.

[300savage]

insecurity and the need to be right about something in their lives

[fatelk]

insecurity and the need to be right about something in their lives

I think you nailed it for some people. Some people just like to be pushy, arrogant bullies also.

The older I get the more I realize that we all have our quirks and weird ideas. If someone appears totally "normal" to you, you probably just don't know them well enough yet. Appreciate people for who they are, don't let their quirks bug you, and hope your own quirks are tolerable to others.

As to getting worked up about always being right; I've been humbled by being wrong enough times to know I shouldn't be too adamant about how right I am. :(

[Wayne Smith]

Fanaticism isn't about right and wrong, it is about semantics.

A clip and magazine are different but can anyone prove a Ford is better than a Chevy?

Specify which Ford and which Chevy and we might talk!

[btroj]

Oh no you don't.

It has to be an all or none. Yes, even the Pinto.

Me? They are just transportation, I don't own any from either company.

[fryboy]

ok i confess the vega was neater than the pinto IMHO

[Petrol & Powder]

All interesting stuff. Some people can disagree and yet be civil adults. Some people can't stand it if you don't adopt their view. I thought is was a combination of old knowledge and new experiences but it may just be that some people are very little people.

And BTW, if you're talking Pintos and Vega's don't forget the Gremlin :-o

[Col4570]

Worked over there in 1974,I was issued with a Chevrolet Pickup with a Camper on the back for the Tools etc.After getting used to driving on the wrong side of the Road,i became more relaxed and enjoyed the experience.Therefore any other make of Pickup and their drivers are useless!!!!!.(only joking honest)No joking apart I found you Americans to be the most polite, friendly and helpful people so it surprises me to hear of dogma on any subject.

[jonp]

Oh no you don't.

It has to be an all or none. Yes, even the Pinto.

Me? They are just transportation, I don't own any from either company.
Neither do I but after the government bailout I wont own either a Chevy or a Dodge/Fiat. I truly don't get the Ford v Chevy thing or any other fanaticism over an inanimate object no matter what it is.
I never really stopped to think about why I prefer a revolver over a semi-auto. I've had a number of both and several very nice 45ACP's but have sold them all. For me they semi's just don't have something that revolvers do although revolvers are tools if you get right down to it. A person that can get all excited over picking up a Wison 45ACP but go "ho hum" over a Colt is a strange animal in my view.

[Harter66]

Long ago a man said to me The only difference between you and the mechanic in the $50,000 shop (a million today) is the $50,000 shop.

On clips and mags, its an easy separation stamped metal w/exposed rounds is a clip see the Garand and Carcano for further explaination of why a clip is sometimes the magazine even though a magazine is defined as a closed ammo container sometimes feeding source.

How about 45LC cause there is a Short Colts?

Somebody just went nuts the other day on me about me suggesting 3 boolits could feed 380,9mm,38/357 and all the 35 cal rifles too,you know in a pinch.

More to the point I have a friend that will argue with me even when we agree. He finally bought a pistol after 20yr of himhawing around. A Glock no less ,because it can't give him slide/hammer bite. Me, well tools are better suited to some jobs than others. I had a 45 Colts RBH for that season I really wanted to take a hog and deer w/ a side arm ,I had a Sec6 before that because it could be shot point and click or precisely SA. I bought a BHP clone it fed everything no hassles and was all steel. Then after much cal. debate a 40 S&W in an XD came along. It works goes bang every time and is half way between 45 and 9mm in every respect it suited me well.

Shot guns are another matter altogether the Model 12 is the only pump they ever needed to build,unless you're a south paw ......... which is why I had a BPS . Same lines with Ithica 37 guts more or less . I hate Mossbergs sloppy rattley half finished...... perfect youth guns for falling in the mud with.

When its all said and done all bolt rifles are some modification of a Mauser even those fancy 12 lug 60 degree things. I've never cared for autos their hard to feed, loose brass,foul things that you can barely get cleaned up. ARs are for the what if when you have to resupply from the wreckage,which is why w/any luck I won't be around long enough to be cleaning up the mess.

I think really folks just need to have something to argue about. Discourse is the road forward so long as compromise doesn't give up anything.

[FISH4BUGS]

OK, here goes. We’ve all read posts about revolvers vs. pistols, 45ACP v. 9mm, steel v. plastic, etc.
We all know that those strong feelings exist but my question is - what are those opinions rooted in? What causes such opinions to form and why does it reach fanatical levels at times?
My theory is a mixture of nostalgia and reality.
Please, hang with me here!
We all bring something to the table. As we get older we mix what we know from the past with what we are currently learning. We apply different experiences to that base of knowledge. For example: someone that learned to shoot a handgun by starting with a 1911 pistol may start from a different perspective than someone that learned on a revolver. (Nostalgic influence on opinion) Someone that transitioned from a revolver to a semi-auto may decide that for them, the pistol has merit due to capacity (personal reality)
My hypothesis is that these opinions are deeply rooted in a COMBINATION of what we are comfortable with and what we accept as reality in our world. Capacity, Caliber, action type, reliability, materials, etc…. the list goes on forever.
I admire the brilliance of John Browning and think the 1911 is a great design but I am far from wedded to it. I’ve owned a bunch of 1911’s, carried one for a while but I don’t think it’s the end all, be all of hand guns. That statement would be blasphemy to some 1911 fans. I love well-made revolvers ever though a Glock has high capacity and is almost as simple. More blasphemy.
SO – The question is: What drives out fanatic attitudes?

It is what you learn on and are comfortable with. period.