Dacron results

[338RemUltraMag]

I got to the range today with a load, it was the RCBS 30-180-FN sized to .310 with 21 gr of H-4198 shot from my Winchester 94. The results speak for themselves!

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/20140116_170500.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/20140116_170500.jpg.html)

[338RemUltraMag]

These were shot at 50 yds, and this load has 3/4 gr of dacron fluff added, much better results!

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/20140116_170510.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/20140116_170510.jpg.html)

[pworley1]

That's the kind of data that is hard to argue with.

[338RemUltraMag]

That was my first 5 dacron loads ever, which is why I started so low. Now I need to work in 1 gr increments up to roughly 30 grains or so 5 with no dacron and 5 with dacron. I hope to find a load in the 1900 fps range for the ol 30-30

[338RemUltraMag]

Next up:

22 gr H-4198
22 gr H-4198 w/ 3/4 gr of dacron

check back soon!

[Larry Gibson]

Check PM.

Larry Gibson

[338RemUltraMag]

Replied to PM.

due to the advice given by Mr. Gibson I will stop testing this powder at 22 gr of H -4198 (which he deemed safe) and will continue testing with another powder OR a 311041 instead of the 30-180-FN

[Idaho Mule]

Something tells me this is gonna get more interesting. JW

[wistlepig1]

Keep us updated, Very interested !

[338RemUltraMag]

If you mean interesting as in dangerous, nope... the lyman 48 lists loads for the 311041 and I will follow those starting low and working up. The only difference will be the dacron fluff.

If you meqn the results will be interesting I fully agree!

[RobS]

I may just have to try this too with my 375 H&H. I've been meaning to in that big ole case for quite some time now.

[TheCelt]

I have had the pleasure to read several threads (including this one) documenting the use of a Dacron filler. In every case I've read to date loads using the Dacron filler show a remarkable improvement over identical loads without it. Jim (The Floyd Files) did extensive testing with the 223 in both 1-12 and 1-9 twist and documented his efforts. Looks like 338remUltaMag is icing the cake with his 30 cal testing!!! I am really looking forward to his testing with the 311041!!

[singleshot]

Does anyone have a link to The Floyd Files?

[singleshot]

Found it!

http://floydpics.wordpress.com/dacron-test/

[Crash_Corrigan]

There are in my little devious mind only two drawbacks to using Dacron in reloading. No actually three...

1-extra step required to insert Dacron prior to seating boolit;
2-funky smell detected after firing off a clip in my Garand;
3-having to go to fabric store to buy the stuff

Enuf for the CONS of using Dacron in reloading. Now for the PROS..

1-I really don't mind the extra step required as I enjoy pretty much all aspects of our shooting sport and since I retired fully in '08 I have plenty of time on my hands. I may even take up Guitar again as it does not require much running about.
2-I can live with the smell since I love to hear the clear ringing CLANG of the steel target upon being smacked by the boolit.
3-Ah, the Fabric Store. I have met and obtained pertinents (phone numbers etc) from 3 different ladies who frequent such places and all three of them are smoking hot.

However keep in mind that my standards have changed somewhat since I am now in my 70's and most of what I have has fallen out (hair) or fallen in general and it would be unfair for me to expect Ladies of my generation not to also have some things gone South. I just wish that Medicare covered the costs of ****** as that stuff is very expensive.

I cannot believe that the software on our forum has deleted the name of the blue pill that allows me to chase ladies at age 70.

[True.grit]

Is 3/4 of a grain a good starting point for any load? I mean reduced load like unique 10 gr or so. I would like to try it in the 308 win. Any advice. thanks

[338RemUltraMag]

Dacron is not needed with pistol powders. Only use dacron with reduced loads of rifle powder.

Example:

30-30

Load 1:
311440
16 gr of 2400
No filler

Load 2
311440
20 gr H-4198
3/4 gr Dacron

The dacron fluff keeps the powder at the flash hole and gives more consistent burns. Where as pistol powder does not need any filler because it creates pressure much sharper and quicker than the rifle powder.

With 30-30 size cases 3/4 gr is good for the bottom end, but once I get past 22 gr of H-4198 I will drop to 1/2 gr. It is all relative when compared to the case size vs powder volume.

[True.grit]

Ok I found the sticky that tells me what in need to know. Great write up by Larry G. Thanks

[True.grit]

Dacron is not needed with pistol powders. Only use dacron with reduced loads of rifle powder.

Example:

30-30

Load 1:
311440
16 gr of 2400
No filler

Load 2
311440
20 gr H-4198
3/4 gr Dacron

The dacron fluff keeps the powder at the flash hole and gives more consistent burns. Where as pistol powder does not need any filler because it creates pressure much sharper and quicker than the rifle powder.

With 30-30 size cases 3/4 gr is good for the bottom end, but once I get past 22 gr of H-4198 I will drop to 1/2 gr. It is all relative when compared to the case size vs powder volume.

Thanks for the response I have been chasing mediocre groups with AA 5744 and I think this will give me what I need to tighten up the groups. My best have been 180gr fp over 23 gr AA 5744 no filler. I was able to get 1 3/4 group with three shots at 100 yrds. I am looking for 1" at 100. By your comments I should try 1/2 grain of filler. Thanks for your advice.

[338RemUltraMag]

The biggest thing everyone stressed to me was to keep the powder from mixing with the fluff. Use enough fluff to allow the bullet base to slightly compress the dacron, when loaded (or without a boolit) you should be able to shake the case and hear no movement OR turn it upside down and shake with no powder falling out

[True.grit]

By your advice it is better to have a little more compression against the powder than risk mixing the powder with the filler. I understand now about the shake test. I could see this could be dangerous if not done. I am going to do some loading this afternoon and shot them tomorrow. Thank you again for your help.

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks for the response I have been chasing mediocre groups with AA 5744 and I think this will give me what I need to tighten up the groups. My best have been 180gr fp over 23 gr AA 5744 no filler. I was able to get 1 3/4 group with three shots at 100 yrds. I am looking for 1" at 100. By your comments I should try 1/2 grain of filler. Thanks for your advice.

True.grit

With 2400, 4227, 4759, 4198 and 5744 the variable with whether or not the Dacron filler is needed depends on both the cast bullet weight and the intended velocity for the cartridge. Depending on cartridge, bullet weight and velocity level desired a Dacron filler is not always beneficial....many times it is but not always.

Easiest way to know with any of them is if the load is at the level of velocity you desire and you have vertical stringing on the target (100 Yards) and/or a large ES on the chronograph data then back off 2 - 3 gr and work back up using the Dacron filler. That will usually improve performance.

BTW; Dacron is finely strung and woven and only really fine ball powders will migrate into it, 5744 won't. Trick is to use just enough Dacron to fill the space. Only use enough that is uncompressed as a measure. after sticking into the case it will expand/fluff back out filling the space.

Larry Gibson

[singleshot]

I've read several folks say Dacron is not needed with pistol powders, and I have no personal experience, but I have to ask: why would the results posted on the Floyd Files show such dramatic improvement with pistol powders and Dacron?

[TheCelt]

I've read several folks say Dacron is not needed with pistol powders, and I have no personal experience, but I have to ask: why would the results posted on the Floyd Files show such dramatic improvement with pistol powders and Dacron?

Because they are being used in rifle cartridges. Jims testing was primarily with the .223. The rifle case has much more room for powder dispersal and the Dacron keeps the powder confined to the case against the primer.

[True.grit]

True.grit

With 2400, 4227, 4759, 4198 and 5744 the variable with whether or not the Dacron filler is needed depends on both the cast bullet weight and the intended velocity for the cartridge. Depending on cartridge, bullet weight and velocity level desired a Dacron filler is not always beneficial....many times it is but not always.

Easiest way to know with any of them is if the load is at the level of velocity you desire and you have vertical stringing on the target (100 Yards) and/or a large ES on the chronograph data then back off 2 - 3 gr and work back up using the Dacron filler. That will usually improve performance.

BTW; Dacron is finely strung and woven and only really fine ball powders will migrate into it, 5744 won't. Trick is to use just enough Dacron to fill the space. Only use enough that is uncompressed as a measure. after sticking into the case it will expand/fluff back out filling the space.

Larry Gibson

Larry thanks for your response I value your options and experience.

I have had vertical strings with my groups. My best group has been with 180 gr boolets at 1 3/4". They average 2 1/4" over 20 rounds. I have tried 160 gr boolets and have gotten better groups with the 180 gr. I have worked this 180 load up to 25.5 with group size's at 2 3/4". I dropped down to 22.2 gr and my groups opened back up to 2 3/4. I am going to try 23gr 5744 with 1 gr Dacron and see if my groups shrink. I am planning on using this load for my upcoming hunt. Do you think 1 gr Dacron will make an unsafe load? Thanks

[Larry Gibson]

Do you think 1 gr Dacron will make an unsafe load?

No, it should not be dangerous. However, I do think 1 gr of Dacron is not needed. 3/4 gr is the most I use with such powders in the '06 case, 1/2 gr with some medium burning powders and with many slow burners.

Larry Gibson

[338RemUltraMag]

Larry,

if you do not mind let me pick your brain a hair. It seems I have accidentally given wrong info concerning pistol powders and dacron. If I am loading say 30-06 and use 10 gr of unique I can also use dacron fluff to aid in ignition? Now rather it is needed is another story, but if I have read correctly it can be done?

This is all new to me (fillers) so I want to make sure I get it right.