2400 in 223

[jackmanuk]

since i have tons of 2400 and ...well....nothing else i need a load for my 223 , i only see one instance of 2400 in the lyman load book using 11.5 max with 55 grn alloy, so im thinking on using 12 grains wit ha 55 grn fmj , should it be ok?

atm iv loaded one scoop of a .7cc lee dipper which is 9. something grns

[blaster]

Probably not safe. Jacketed bullets generally generate higher pressure than a like weight boolit. More powder will generate more pressure as well.

[jackmanuk]

hmm iv always assumed jacketed bullets produce less pressure when same weight and size because of the less friction of the copper

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

hmm iv always assumed jacketed bullets produce less pressure when same weight and size because of the less friction of the copper
Guilding Metal (the copper alloy used in jackets) has less friction than Lubricated bullet Lead alloy ???
I don't think so.

[steve4102]

hmm iv always assumed jacketed bullets produce less pressure when same weight and size because of the less friction of the copper

Good point.
Take a look at Ramshot 10MM data for example.

Silhouette.
200gr Jacketed=7.8gr Max
200gr Lead =6.7gr Max

AA #7
180gr Jacketed= 10.7gr Max
175gr Lead = 10.4gr

AA #9
180gr Jacketed = 13.5gr Max
185gr Lead = 13.0gr Max

According to Western Powders, it's appears you are correct. At least for the 10MM.

[454PB]

Good point.
Take a look at Ramshot 10MM data for example.

Silhouette.
200gr Jacketed=7.8gr Max
200gr Lead =6.7gr Max

AA #7
180gr Jacketed= 10.7gr Max
175gr Lead = 10.4gr

AA #9
180gr Jacketed = 13.5gr Max
185gr Lead = 13.0gr Max

According to Western Powders, it's appears you are correct. At least for the 10MM.

That's because published reloading data always wants to limit pressure and velocity of lead bullets to minimize leading. They won't recognize that proper cast boolits can be driven much faster than the average handloader realizes.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Good point.
Take a look at Ramshot 10MM data for example.

Silhouette.
200gr Jacketed=7.8gr Max
200gr Lead =6.7gr Max

AA #7
180gr Jacketed= 10.7gr Max
175gr Lead = 10.4gr

AA #9
180gr Jacketed = 13.5gr Max
185gr Lead = 13.0gr Max

According to Western Powders, it's appears you are correct. At least for the 10MM.

Look up some data that lists Pressures with their Data, that may probably change your mind.

[steve4102]

Look up some data that lists Pressures with their Data, that may probably change your mind.

OK. Here goes.


Silhouette.
200gr Jacketed=7.8gr Max Pressure 35,700psi
200gr Lead =6.7gr Max Pressure 34,250psi

AA #7
180gr Jacketed= 10.7gr Max Pressure 35,300psi
175gr Lead = 10.4gr Max Pressure 35,200psi

AA #9
180gr Jacketed = 13.5gr Max Pressure 34,100psi
185gr Lead = 13.0gr Max Pressure 34,700psi

Didn't change my mind, did it change yours?

[steve4102]

We can also look at the 45 acp. Very popular with lead bullets, yes.

Lost of powders to choose from, I'll pick from Hodgdon data for this one.

W 231 Jacketed Max = 5.3gr @ 16,800CUP
W 231 Lead RN Max = 5.3gr @ 16,900 CUP

My Favorite 45 Powder, WST.

WST 230gr Jacketed = 4.9gr @ 16,100 CUP
WST 230gr Lead RN = 4.3gr @ 16,400 CUP

Still the same, lead bullet achieve higher pressure with less powder. According to this Pressure data, he is correct.

[mpmarty]

If that's what you like to believe do a small test: Place a cast, sized and lubed boolit in chamber and see how hard it is to drive down the barrel. Repeat with jacketed at your own risk.

[AABEN]

Has any one used the moly to cote there lead bullets. I do all of my lead bullets.

[steve4102]

If that's what you like to believe do a small test: Place a cast, sized and lubed boolit in chamber and see how hard it is to drive down the barrel. Repeat with jacketed at your own risk.

Really, that's how you determine pressure in your handloads?

Instead of reading published data, you push a bullet or two through the bore and go by feel? Good luck with that.

I'll stick to Published Pressure tested data, thank you very much.

[Cosmiceyes]

I seek to disagree with everyone.I pistol reload gives no related reference to a bottle necked rifle stats.I say neither is wrong,but what has been given for reference would make me do further "case"study and some phone calls to ask powder manufacture. :)s'

[blackthorn]

Why in the world would you just pick a max load and proceed?? If you don't know---start low and work up!! On the other hand---it's your well being (or life) so do whatever you decide! Let us know what happens, or make arrangements for someone else to do so. Have a great (and safe) day!

[dverna]

Weight is only one factor. The amount of bearing surface will have an impact on pressure. As will the amount of crimp. as will seating depth.

The ONLY way to work up a safe load (without pressure equipment) is to start at recommended starting loads and work you way up while checking for signs of pressure. Well, that is what works for me. I normally stop at less than the max load because I tend not to push things and I stop once I get an accurate load.

Don Verna

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Look up some data that lists Pressures with their Data, that may probably change your mind.


OK. Here goes.


Silhouette.
200gr Jacketed=7.8gr Max Pressure 35,700psi
200gr Lead =6.7gr Max Pressure 34,250psi

AA #7
180gr Jacketed= 10.7gr Max Pressure 35,300psi
175gr Lead = 10.4gr Max Pressure 35,200psi

AA #9
180gr Jacketed = 13.5gr Max Pressure 34,100psi
185gr Lead = 13.0gr Max Pressure 34,700psi

Didn't change my mind, did it change yours?

While I thought the books would be in my favor, they are clearly not.

As I ponder on this, it is clear that this is just not a simple argument, because all things are not the same.

A properly sized cast boolit will seal the bore and contain the pressure til the boolit leaves the barrel. Now a Jacketed bullet will not conform to the rifling enough to seal it, hence allowing gases to pass by it and not allow for complete potential pressure buildup.

Another factor is that there is much less metal to metal contact with the jacketed bullet, than the Lead alloy boolit, which would lend to your argument of less friction when shooting a copper jacketed bullet.

But then there is the amount of compression/springback pressure of Jacket pushing against the rifling whereas the Lead alloy will just conform to the rifling.

Yep, just not a simple argument. I'm sorry I challenged you.

[facetious]

I bet that if you sent Alliant a e-mail and asked thy could give you a starting load.

[blikseme300]

Jackmanuk, are you wanting to load for a bolt or gas rifle?

[steve4102]

Another factor is that there is much less metal to metal contact with the jacketed bullet, than the Lead alloy boolit, which would lend to your argument of less friction when shooting a copper jacketed bullet.

I have read this several times and I can't come to the same conclusion. It makes little sense to me.

The jacketed bullets (most jacketed bullets) are solid from base to ogive. The Lead bullets are not solid as they (most lead bullets) have lube grooves reducing the amount of actual bearing surface.

The old Barnes solid copper bullets generated high pressures in weak to moderate jacketed loads. To solve the problem they introduced "rings" or "grooves" into the bullet reducing bearing surface thus reducing pressure. Very similar to the lube rings in Cast bullets, especially Tumble lube cast bullets.

I have to think that the lube grooves in cast bullet reduces bearing surface, not increase it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have read this several times and I can't come to the same conclusion. It makes little sense to me.

The jacketed bullets (most jacketed bullets) are solid from base to ogive. The Lead bullets are not solid as they (most lead bullets) have lube grooves reducing the amount of actual bearing surface.

The old Barnes solid copper bullets generated high pressures in weak to moderate jacketed loads. To solve the problem they introduced "rings" or "grooves" into the bullet reducing bearing surface thus reducing pressure. Very similar to the lube rings in Cast bullets, especially Tumble lube cast bullets.

I have to think that the lube grooves in cast bullet reduces bearing surface, not increase it.

Dang it ...quit making me think ;)
lube grooves, another factor...and again a varying from boolit to boolit factor. AND a new reason to me that published cast boolit data is probably not exactly transferable from boolit to boolit just because they are the same caliber and same weight.

Here's a 500gr salvaged boolit from my S&W 500 Mag. Yes, the lube grooves reduce the metal to metal contact, but look how it conforms to the bore. I've recovered Jacketed bullets that almost look like new/unfired...with just mire scratches in the jacket, nothing indicating it conformed to the bore. Which would seem to me, to reduce bearing surface by up to 50%, dependant on rifling groove width.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/Noe50cal500gr_zps0ac2106d.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/Noe50cal500gr_zps0ac2106d.jpg.html)

[steve4102]

You can also look at it terms of actual numbers.
Slugging the bore gives the handloader a fairly accurate account of actual bore size. Agreed or no?

Lets say you slug the bore of your 1911 45 acp and as with most pistols it measures .451. Jacketed bullet also measure .451. If the bore diameter is identical to the bullet diameter , would not a reasonable conclusion be that the bullet-to-bore fit is a tight fit and gas "Blow-by" is more of a theory then a fact.

Maybe it's just my thick head, but I can't grasp this.
A properly sized cast boolit will seal the bore and contain the pressure til the boolit leaves the barrel. Now a Jacketed bullet will not conform to the rifling enough to seal it, hence allowing gases to pass by it and not allow for complete potential pressure buildup.

If the jacketed bullet is already the same diameter as the bore, there is nothing to "Conform" to. It's already a tight fit. If anything the pressures on the base of a jacketed bullet should cause a somewhat tighter fit similar to the lead bullet, although not as much.

IMO, no way there is Gas-by-pass when using jacketed bullets. They are tight before the round is fired and they will get tighter after the round is fired.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Looks like skate marks to me...not much conforming to rifle grooves on these. If they aren't conforming to the rifle grooves, don't tell me that tens O thousands of PSI of burning gases aren't going to leak around it.

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/closeup_zpsaa6fadab.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/closeup_zpsaa6fadab.jpg.html)

[Harter66]

My actual head to head test. 21' .277x.284 bbl hooked to a Carcano action chambered in 7x6.8 Rem SPCII.
22.0 RL10x
Rem LRP 6.8 Rem direct neck up brass
CCI lrg rifle standard primer
Serria 120 SP (old stock 1974?)
27-130 FP RCBS paper patched 134gr as loaded.

I selected the load as it is a prefered of several shooters of 6.8 Rem and safe w/the 120gr weight in the 6.8 (277)cartridge.

The Serria 120 clocked 2230 average for 8 rounds (all the jackets this rifle will likely ever see) . The PP'd RCBS at 134gr clocked 2250 average for 10rd. That says to me something changed. Heavier bullets simply can't go faster w/o being slicker all else being the same.

Example number 2 (This 1 is slightly flawed but holds true)
32 Remington (Data for 32 Win special is excepted as direct interchange per Ben Amonte @ ATK)
The load is
Win brass (both correct and turned 32 Win)
CCI LRP standard
IMR 4350
170 gr FP (Book)
323-170 actually chrono'd at 175 gr

170 FP, 34.4 for 1800fps 37.7 2000 fps from 12/1975 Hornady Handbook
323-170, 31.0gr 2100 fps (best group w/Plain based boolit.

Less powder, same boolit weight goes 100 fps faster, 6gr+ less than max going 100fps faster than than max says lower pressures to me.

From approved data, look at the 748 you will see .6 gr difference in the maximum charge and 200fps loss on the boolit vs jacked but also a reduction of 5000 CUP. Taken from the 47th Lyman reloading handbook for 223 in the universal reciever 24'' bbl
93526
93527

[steve4102]

Looks like skate marks to me...not much conforming to rifle grooves on these. If they aren't conforming to the rifle grooves, don't tell me that tens O thousands of PSI of burning gases aren't going to leak around it.

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/closeup_zpsaa6fadab.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/closeup_zpsaa6fadab.jpg.html)

I'm not telling you anything. I'm telling you I don't "Think" "gas by pass" is possible in a jacketed bullet. At least not enough to alter/reduce pressures.

If it were, then the Hard A$$ Barnes Solid would have developed less pressure than a softer Cup-n-core bullet before the "Rings" were introduced, not more. As the all copper bullet will "Conform" less to the bore it should have resulted in more "Gas-by-Pass, resulting in less pressure, Not More.

[Harter66]

This 5 second video at an advertised 1million frames per second would tend to disagree . It looks like even a powder flake escaped before the bullet and certainly high pressure gas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otpFNL3yem4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Certaindeaf]

It was always my impression that given everything the same, save one slug being jacketed and the other being lead, the lead bullet goes a fair bit faster.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

This 5 second video at an advertised 1million frames per second would tend to disagree . It looks like even a powder flake escaped before the bullet and certainly high pressure gas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otpFNL3yem4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

A great video. I had to look at it many times.
It's clear to me that Gas is bypassing that bullet.
Easiest to see on top of the bore, the gases exiting in front of the bullet are clearly going faster than the bullet.

[GabbyM]

It’s a known fact cast lead bullets have less friction in the bore. Jacketed bullets will always yield higher pressure and lower velocity unless you are doing something funky.

Jacketed bullets can stick in a bore when using cast data.

My old Hornady book list there 55gr fmj-bt with reduced velocity loads using SR4759 powder. Slowest load they list is 2100 fps. Hornady doesn’t explain why the start load is 2100 fps. I’d assume two things. Test barrel was 24 inch 12 twist. Slower and bullets are probably not accurate due to low stability. Then you have the bullet sticking in the bore issue. Start load of SR5759 is 11.3gr for 2100fps. Max is 15.2gr for 2600fps. 2400 powder is just a tad faster than SR4759. Hornady doesn’t list pressures but I’d imagine that 15.2 grains is getting up to the top plus it probably about fills a 223 case. Your idea to start at 12.0 grains IIRC looks about right to me for a start point. I’d get it bumped up in pressure to at least get a good case to chamber seal. My Lyman 3rd edition list 11.5 grains under the 225646 at 2206fps and 27,100 CUP. It’s never a great idea to extrapolate load data. But between the SR4759 data and the cast data on 2400 I’d be confident with the 12gr start charge. If it was me I’d load three up with 14.0 grains for a start.

[Digital Dan]

You fellas are debating this based on a lot of assumptions and not too many facts.

Best of luck!

[steve4102]

This 5 second video at an advertised 1million frames per second would tend to disagree . It looks like even a powder flake escaped before the bullet and certainly high pressure gas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otpFNL3yem4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Great video Thanks. Hard to tell, but it looks to me as though that is a lead or plated bullet?

Do you have any info on what the round,bullet caliber, cartridge was?

Would be nice to see the same type of video with different types of bullets, lead vs Jacketed vs plated vs solid copper. Then we could compare how much "Gas-blow-buy" each type of bullet generates.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

What's different is the seating depth, not the COAL, but how deep the boolit is in the case. Given the same COAL, the lead displaced by the lube grooves ends up in the case, reducing case capacity and increasing pressures when compared to a jacketed bullet of the same weight, but only minimally based on the data posted. Loaded to the same pressure, the boolit will have a higher velocity because of the reduced bore friction of lead vs copper.

[jackmanuk]

Jackmanuk, are you wanting to load for a bolt or gas rifle?


its for my ar 15 but since over here we cant have the gas system so no worry of cycling issues

[jackmanuk]

i went to work this morning hoping for an answer to my question, instead iv started a big debate on jack v lead

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Sorry for the thread drift.

[Harter66]

Great video Thanks. Hard to tell, but it looks to me as though that is a lead or plated bullet?

Do you have any info on what the round,bullet caliber, cartridge was?

Would be nice to see the same type of video with different types of bullets, lead vs Jacketed vs plated vs solid copper. Then we could compare how much "Gas-blow-buy" each type of bullet generates.

I don't have anything except what is seen .There are 100s of like video clips from U-tube .

I didn't intent to push the drift either.

[steve4102]

since i have tons of 2400 and ...well....nothing else i need a load for my 223 , i only see one instance of 2400 in the lyman load book using 11.5 max with 55 grn alloy, so im thinking on using 12 grains wit ha 55 grn fmj , should it be ok?

atm iv loaded one scoop of a .7cc lee dipper which is 9. something grns

I too apologize for hijacking your thread.

To answer your original question, I found this.

Shows a Max load of 15.9gr 2400 with a 55gr jacketed bullet for Silhouette loads.
Also shows a max charge of 14.0gr for standard loads with 55gr bullet in the 223.


Reduce by 10% for Start charge.

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Alliant96.pdf

More data here.

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant.html

[jackmanuk]

thanks for the info steve , i was planning 12 grains but im starting with 10


btw whats a silhouette load ?

[steve4102]

thanks for the info steve , i was planning 12 grains but im starting with 10


btw whats a silhouette load ?

Duno.

I know what shooting Silhouettes is/are, but I don't know how that applied to handloads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_silhouette_shooting

I think you should follow the Alliant data and Start 10% below Max not 25% below max. 10% below max would give you a start charge of 12.6gr. Your original plan of starting with 12gr is a good plan, dropping to 10gr not so much.

[steve4102]

Now, back to the hijack and the speculation.

The video showed gases and even powder escaping the muzzle prior to the bullet.

Speculation says that the gases escaped past the bullet due to a poor bullet-to-bore fit.

..but what about the powder? How did powder flakes get past the bullet-to-bore fit? IMO, it can't there is no way that flakes of powder can fit between the bore and the bullet and escape in tact. It's physically not possible.

So how did the powder get itself in front of the bullet? My speculation is that it escaped around the bullet before the bullet entered the lands and sealed the bore. If this is possible, it is also probable that all of the gases we see in the video entered the bore at the same time and did not pass up the bullet as it traveled down the bore, but entered the bore first.

Or, what we see in the video is not "Powder flakes" but rather powder fouling and **** left in the bore from previous rounds.

[Certaindeaf]

Sorry for the thread drift..
I don't know that it's thread drift.. *shudder* lol.. I think "it's" cogent and germane to the subject at hand.

[jackmanuk]

first outting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUvzrwv3YXg&feature=youtu.be

i shot about 70 rounds today of home loads with around 9.3 grains of 2400 , the rounds were not hot and no stress signs , so i rekon i will have to try 10 , 10.5 , 11 grains maybe even 12 and see whats what

[AlaskanGuy]

Before folks assume that actual flakes of powder are escaping before the bullet, consider this...

we do NOT know how many takes it took before they got a video that really showed what they wanted to show, If I was gunna assume anything, I would assume that the tiny flakes were left in the bore from the shot prior, not they escaped as the bullet was fired.... The gasses that escaped were prolly already in the barrel is what I am thinking..... but we do not now how many times the gun was fired before they got what they wanted for the video...

AG

[David2011]

I have read this several times and I can't come to the same conclusion. It makes little sense to me.

The jacketed bullets (most jacketed bullets) are solid from base to ogive. The Lead bullets are not solid as they (most lead bullets) have lube grooves reducing the amount of actual bearing surface.

The old Barnes solid copper bullets generated high pressures in weak to moderate jacketed loads. To solve the problem they introduced "rings" or "grooves" into the bullet reducing bearing surface thus reducing pressure. Very similar to the lube rings in Cast bullets, especially Tumble lube cast bullets.

I have to think that the lube grooves in cast bullet reduces bearing surface, not increase it.

Steve,

I would have to agree with the statement you quoted for this response when related to rifle bullets only. Generalizing, most jacketed rifle bullets have fairly short bearing surfaces. Most cast rifle boolits have extended bearing surfaces. This is obviously a complex subject but I would have to agree that in general, cast rifle boolits have more contact with the barrel than jacketed.

I have been of the assumption for years that lead had better lubricity than copper but now wonder about that.

The video is interesting. I have no queston that gas is bypassing the bullet which appears to be a jacket soft hollow point in .45 ACP. Played in stop frame, a ring where the jacket meets the soft point is visible just as the bullet reaches the right edge of the frame. The unburned flakes of powder appear to be from the previous shot and propelled by the blowby. The muzzle indicates that at least one previous shot had been fired since it was cleaned.

Got to wonder if cast produces higher pressure because of the requirement to be swaged into a bore smaller than the OD of the boolit to prevent leading or if it's a lubricity difference. Seat of the pants says the swaging is not insignificant in the overall pressure. It would be interesting to see an oscilloscope trace or other time vs. pressure data of the pressure transitions for cast vs. jacketed.

Off topic: Also interesting is that the gun is still fully locked in battery when the boolit leaves the barrel-something I've assumed but never seen before.

David

[jackmanuk]

i always assumed it stayed locked otherwise you accuracy would drop , i like how i started a massive debate over an assumption . i jsut watched the vid and IMO that they are not power flakes before the bullet but residue from the previous bullet as one of last and larger chucks to fly out look more like a flat irregular peice of lead rather than a power grain



let the long winded replies continue :coffeecom

[Old Caster]

I wonder if doing something like putting magic marker on a jacketed bullet and then seeing if it was smeared off everywhere after being fired would make this more clear.

[GabbyM]

I may not be perceiving the debate properly.
What I'm thinking about this ejected material is. Bores have residue in them with some loads. When a bullets is pushed down the bore it's is a piston in a bore. Air and material will be pushed out in front of it at high velocity. Is my thought process in error?

[nicholst55]

IIRC, the Lyman 47th Edition reloading book has a section for T/C Contender data. In there, they list data for 2400 (and jacketed bullets) in the .223 Rem. I tried some of their loads in a Remington 700, and it worked just fine. The recoil was almost nonexistent, and accuracy was acceptable. It's been many, many years since I tried this, so the details are a bit fuzzy. As I recall, velocity in a 14" Contender barrel wasn't far behind a 20" AR-15 barrel with comparable bullets. It was curiosity that made me try it, and curiosity satisfied, I moved on.

[GabbyM]

first outting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUvzrwv3YXg&feature=youtu.be

i shot about 70 rounds today of home loads with around 9.3 grains of 2400 , the rounds were not hot and no stress signs , so i rekon i will have to try 10 , 10.5 , 11 grains maybe even 12 and see whats what

Very nice video there jackmanuk:
I don’t run cast in my AR’s because I have bolt gun 223’s for that. But your video shows nicely how slick an AR runs on a straight pull bolt when magazine feed. All the parts are over the counter thanks to the HP rifle shooters running them in longer than magazine length heavy bullets.

One of the things I don't like about AR's is the dented brass. A straight pull setup would solve that and still be far faster than a turn bolt. I'll stick with my bolt guns sporting pretty wood however. May hang onto my red pajamas too. With teddy bears.

[GabbyM]

Actually when I do run cast through either of my AR rifles. My brass does not dent as it is softly ejected.
Then my old SP-1 Colt does not dent brass. It took the US Government to design a rifle that screwed up Stoners design.

[SlippShodd]

When I was trying to get cast going in my AR last year (55 gr mould dropping a 62ish grain boolit w/check) I think I got to 17 or 18 grains of 2400 before I gave up on it and switched to better powders. My issue was that I couldn't get the gas system to operate. Took 22 grains of 748 (as a comparison) to do that reliably. The accuracy with those 2400 grain loads was outstanding, just wouldn't run the gun.

mike

[Moonie]

I've found a strip of stick on velcro/hook & loop on the deflector fixes the issue with dinged up brass, even with full power jacketed loads.

[osteodoc08]

We can also look at the 45 acp. Very popular with lead bullets, yes.

Lost of powders to choose from, I'll pick from Hodgdon data for this one.

W 231 Jacketed Max = 5.3gr @ 16,800CUP
W 231 Lead RN Max = 5.3gr @ 16,900 CUP

My Favorite 45 Powder, WST.

WST 230gr Jacketed = 4.9gr @ 16,100 CUP
WST 230gr Lead RN = 4.3gr @ 16,400 CUP

Still the same, lead bullet achieve higher pressure with less powder. According to this Pressure data, he is correct.

How did they arrive at the pressures? A test barrel? A calculation?

[runfiverun]

with a transducer.
the lead simply obdurates the barrel better [jeez I hope I don't start the obturate/obdurate thing again]
it seals the gasses of from the start rising pressure right off.
lead has a lower engraving pressure than copper.

[swheeler]

with a transducer.
the lead simply obdurates the barrel better [jeez I hope I don't start the obturate/obdurate thing again]
it seals the gasses of from the start rising pressure right off.
lead has a lower engraving pressure than copper.

Yep you started it again, I think you mean obturate.;)

[Pinsnscrews]

Silhouette loads tend to be loads that have enough power behind the bullet to knock the steel plates down without actually damaging them. Most of the loads I am working up for my T/C are soft point or flat point rounds. In my case, my local range also has a cap on velocity. So in theory, I want heavy for caliber loads on my fast cartridges, without extra length, so a round point/soft point bullet will still be accurate with the extra weight and shorter overall length to work with slower twist rates.

[runfiverun]

FACE/PALM.....:lol:

[MGySgt]

I have shot 2400 in an AR and had excellent accuracy at 100 yards with the Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT. It would eject, but the bolt didn't go back far enough to pick up another round.

As your AR doesn't have a gas system I don't see that as a problem.

I think I stopped at about 14 grains as the primers were being flattened pretty good and the cases were real hot. Not much of a pressure check, but I didn't go any higher.

According to Quick Load the max should be about 15 grains with an OAL of 2.260.

Good luck with your 2400 loads.

[walltube]

jackmanuk,

Not wanting to be a scold here; to "assume" anything when searching for and developing a satisfactory load for a given firearm is courting disaster. I see in your post no.3: "assume". Please, no assumptions.

There, you have my short winded contribution. ;)

Regards,
Wt.

[jackmanuk]

thanks for the info , the 9.5 grains was a nice soft easy load so im trying 10 and 11 .... but i dont think il try 15