.22LR abundant

[xs11jack]

I stopped at the Wentzville, Mo. Rual King store, they sell farm and ranch stuff, and went to the firearms counter. There were plenty of Remington, Winchester and CCI fifty round packs on the shelves. The CCI were priced at $9.99, the Winchester was at $12.99 and don't remember the Remington price, it might have been $14.99 or so. There seemed to be 50+ packs of each brand. There were 4 or 5 customers there looking at guns and one was buying a pistol, but no one paying attention to the .22 ammo. Haven't been to wallyworld for so long, I don't know what they are charging, or LGSs for that matter. Lack of money will do that sometimes.
Ole Jack

[TXGunNut]

Wow, at that price they can keep it.

[Recluse]

Wow, at that price they can keep it.

Yep, at those kinds of BS prices, it's liable to STAY abundant.

:coffee:

[selmerfan]

I stopped in at a Mills Fleet Farm today and Winchester 100 round packs were $6.29. Sadly, that's not a bad price right now. But I passed.

[starmac]

Would have been the last time I darkened their doorway, period.

[WILCO]

Yep, at those kinds of BS prices, it's liable to STAY abundant.

:coffee:

I agree. But the reality is there are 1,000's and 1,000's of new shooters and they're going to want some ammo for their new guns. Then you factor in the rise of inflation. Just like cheap gasoline, those days of cheap .22Lr are over.

[starmac]

I doubt many new shooters will be dumb enough to pay that kind of prices.

[WILCO]

I doubt many new shooters will be dumb enough to pay that kind of prices.

Has nothing to do with being dumb enough. Everything to do with supply and demand. I haven't seen .22Lr around here in months. Last time I asked, the Walmart guy laughed at me.

[starmac]

I can't understand why wallmart keeps getting brought up everytime 22 ammo is mentioned, lots of better places to buy ammo. The cheapest price he mentioned is 20 bucks a brick higher than the worst resellers price I've seen on craigslist Nobody needs to shoot that bad, and if I walked in and noticed those prices, they would never sell me anything even if it was the best price nationwide.

[DW475]

Seems to be a lot of price gouging in my area as well. Walmart sells the 50 count boxes at just under $4 a box and down the road at the local gun shop they are $9 - $14 depending on the brand and they sell em out as fast as they get them on the shelves. Glad i stocked up good back when a brick of 500 was only $9.

[WILCO]

I can't understand why wallmart keeps getting brought up everytime 22 ammo is mentioned, lots of better places to buy ammo.

People bring up Walmart because they sell .22Lr. Other places sell it.............when they have it, just like Walmart.

[starmac]

Some wallmarts quit selling ammo several years ago, maybe they sell it again, I don't know. I know I just happened to be in wallmart a few months ago when they were unloading a pallet of 22 ammo. There was only one guy ahead of me, so I waited and got a brick until they told me the price. I handed it back and have not checked their ammo situation since. I bought four bricks off of craigslist a couple months ago, just so I wouldn't be getting rid of part of my stash giving some out at christmas, 5 bucks a brick cheaper than wallmart. We have to pay some outrageous shipping cost to get ammo here, but even at that it is better than those posted prices. I will admit I can't remember the last time I bought 22 ammo in 50 round boxes though, probably would have been early 70's. I have bought a lot of the 100 round boxes of cci's though.

[WILCO]

I think the only answer is to have more factories making 22LR in the US. Factories that can make rim-fire can also make primers, the other component adversely effected.

We're past that point Bill. Too many issues regarding the market, cost of doing business, government regulations, and transportation. The producers won't produce unless the numbers make sense. Satisfying market demands isn't done in the form of a social program.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup at that price they should be selling bricks!!

[oldred]

With all the stockpiling going on eventually a LOT of folks are going to have thousands of rounds gathering dust and the interest in stockpiling will wane, hopefully anyway, and then with any kind of luck prices will fall due to a glutted market. Simply supply and demand working reverse to what it is now but of course many factors will determine whether or not this actually happens or turns out to be nothing more than wishful thinking. The biggest factor obviously being having nothing else happen that sets off another panic but just the mere mention of new restrictive laws will also have an effect, this up-coming fall election could make a profound difference in what happens!

[Thin Man]

A LGS/range in my area just got in a shipment of five (5) round tins of IIRC 325 rounds of Federal 22LR in each tin, along with his other merchandise order. This was the first 22LR they had seen in a while. The store owner had two of his clerks open these tins and dump the contents into a plastic tub. Then they used the contents to fill up some empty 100 round hard plastic ammo carriers (for accurate count) and transfer those 100 rounds into sandwich baggies with content ID and price stickers on each baggie. This ammo was then put out for sale only to those people who (1) were members of the shooting range and (2) were going to take the ammo to the range for immediate consumption - not intended to be carried out the door even though one has to suspect the majority of this ammo wound up walking out with the customer (fire 10 rounds and pocket the rest). Can't remember the price for 100 rounds. Customers who were not range members were ill about the policy and made their thoughts known to the various clerks but the owner has done this for some time now and is immune from the complaints. While this policy may pacify a few of his range members he is driving away other customers who also buy other products, just not at this store as often because of this and other similar policies.
Thin Man

[singleshot]

Is there a way to make reloadable ammo you could shoot in a 22lr? I saw a guy machine primer pockets into the outside edge of brass for some old, rare rimfires...labor intensive I know! My answer has been to shoot my 30's instead since I can reload them cheaper than I can buy 22lr.

[762 shooter]

New shooters haven't experienced 50 count boxes of 22LR for 50 cents. Most of them haven't seen $20 bricks. It's just normal for them. Is there any caliber that can be purchased ready to shoot retail for $0.10/round? None comes to mind.

Only us Old Fogeys are PO'd. Black and white TV's with 3 channels used to be cool.

If the shortage ever eases, most people will forget it ever happened and only buy 22's when they need them.

762

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I believe that an awful lot of .22 ammo buyers are new to the game. They don't know what it used to cost, they just know what it costs now and that there isn't much of it around. The other day at Farm&Fleet there were three 50 round boxes of Federal on the shelf. I was looking at one of them and they were priced at five something a box. Another guy came up and I said that it was pretty darn expensive to which he replied, yup, sure is and then took all three boxes.................

[762 shooter]

Not exactly so^, at the end of 2012 Federal 510's were $1.47 per 50 round box. Federal bulk 550's were $15.

I agree with you last sentence.

I also don't see how the firearms manufacturers are going to keep selling 10-22's and the like without any affordable ammo.

To the non-reloader 10 cents a round is very affordable.

It's only people like us that find it hard to swallow.

If I didn't have any 22 ammo and the only way I could shoot was to pay $5 a box, I would probably do it. I doubt I would go burn a brick in an afternoon, but if my kids/grandkids wanted to shoot I would have to bite the bullet. Pardon the pun.

762

[AK Caster]

$8.97 for a Federal 550 bulk pack purchased at Wally World about 5 years ago. My brother and I each purchased 120 bricks. Cleaned out two local stores. Sales people thought we were nuts, so did our wives. Less than 2 cents a round including 6% sales tax.
Guess it was one of the smart moves of our life as we each have just over 100 bulk packs remaining:)

[DLCTEX]

One of my Christmas gifts from #4 son was a 550 count box of Rem. 22 lr. I said "wow, that's gold." The price on the box was $9.95. When I asked where he found them he said, "In my storage unit". Didn't ask if there were more where that came from.

[w5pv]

At least some is showing up on the shelfs.I read somewhere that the manufacturers wasn't. charging any more that they were before all the hoarding started.If this is true we are being gouged by the suppliers.I have a couple hundred rounds that I have been hanging onto and will not buy until the price comes way down.Academy gets their in every Tuesday here and it is gone in a few minutes.I don't know what their price is.This one guy that had some before Christmas and was selling for $ 75.00 a brick has dropped his price to $50.00 and I am sure he isn't losing money at that price.

[bangerjim]

Just got back from the MESA gun show.

PLENTY of 22's there! Many tables had many boxes.

But at 11-15 cents a round they are still there!

banger

[singleshot]

We won't be able to reload cheaper then 22LR with the price increase we are seeing of components.
Try replacing your stock of primers, powder, cast or jacketed, with today's prices.
I dunno Bill, at 11-15 cents per round for 22lr, I can still reload my Mosin's for that or less with subsonic plinkers/small game loads. Even at 5 cents per primer, I can still use about 3-5 cents worth of powder and a 1 cent cast boolit, and I'm in the ball park.

[taiden]

I was one of the new shooters post Sandy Hook, I bought my 22/45 about two months after. The shop I bought it from didn't even have ammo to go with the pistol.

The next day I came back to double check, still no ammo. A man and his wife were standing near the ammo section, I asked them if they knew where I could get 22lr, and I lamented about my situation. The woman said there had been some earlier, but it was gone. They walked away. As I stood there looking at the bare ammo shelves, the man turned around and handed me a box of CCI subsonic and then left. I will never forget that. I still have two rounds from that box, and the box itself, in my closet.

Anyway, I would have easily paid that price to shoot back then. I had to wait 5 months before I could actually find some in store. I ended up borrowing some from my landlord, the elusive 550 Federal box.

[mac60]

One thing for sure. The rise in the price of .22 rimfire ammunition has NOTHING to do with INFLATION. Politics, hoarding, fear, stupidity yeah - inflation, no.

[USAFrox]

I have to wonder if the prices we're seeing aren't the "new normal", though. With the closure of the doe run smelter, lead to make new ammo is likely going to have to be imported (if I'm understanding everything correctly), and that can't possibly be cheaper than making it domestically. I fear we'll never see the prices of a couple of years ago come back.

[perotter]

Last week a LGS had 50 round boxes of Winchester LR for $2.99 a box. Not a lot of it. Primers at less than $35.00 a thousand. A good variety of powder for around here, but only in #1 containers. I don't normally buy smaller than #4 containers, but I do know that powder is $2-$3 higher than 2 years ago.

I might go to Fleet Farm to check availability and prices today.

[jcwit]

One thing for sure. The rise in the price of .22 rimfire ammunition has NOTHING to do with INFLATION. Politics, hoarding, fear, stupidity yeah - inflation, no.

YUP! But in what % for each, who knows?

[bob208]

yes a lot of people making a profit out there or trying to. I was at a gun show yesterday. federal .22 lr. $5.00 box of 50. some was more. I used to pay that for .22 mag. I got 2 boxes of .22 mag at $17 a box of 50. they are for my father he is out.

[Blacksmith]

Orest Michaels
Chief Operating Officer CMP posted on Dec.17, 2013


AMMUNITION UPDATE. The CMP has been notified by ammunition manufacturers and distributors to expect price increases and significant delivery delays for all calibers of ammunition, especially for .22 rimfire. The price increases and delays apply to orders we have already placed with the manufacturers. Prior to 2013 CMP received deliveries of truckloads of ammo within a few weeks of placing orders. We are now being advised, as in the case of Aguila .22, that it may take several years to receive all of the 35,000,000 rounds of Aguila ammo we have on order.

As a result of this situation, CMP has placed orders with several different manufacturers for large amounts of ammunition in various calibers. We expect to receive only a few pallets at a time because manufacturers and distributors are rationing the ammo to their customers. As we receive ammo, we will contact customers with oldest orders already in place with the option to purchase whatever we receive at the new prices, cancel the order, or remain on the list for the manufacturer they originally requested. All price increases to CMP will be passed on to the customer. CMP will not be profiting from the increase in prices.

We will continue to accept orders for ammunition, with the understanding that the wait time for customers between placing an order and receiving the ammunition may be anywhere from a few weeks to a few years. Most other retailers are in the same situation as the CMP. We suggest that customers leave their CMP orders in place and not cancel until they are able to purchase ammo elsewhere. CMP customers will be contacted as to pricing and manufacturer before any orders are filled. We do not expect to have any additional information until after the annual SHOT Show in mid January, when we will meet with all of the ammo manufacturers.

On Jan. 10, 2014 he posted


The SHOT Show is next week and we will meet with all the ammo manufacturers and I will have an update the following week, when I return to the office.

So in about 2 weeks we should know more about the ammunition situation from someone who is in a position to get some answers and who has been above reproach in communicating with the shooting community.

Mr. Michaels regularly posts to and has his own section on the CMP Forum.
http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=76

[tchepone]

starmac: How would you find ammunition on Craig's List when it is one of the items specifically not allowed to be posted?

[jcwit]

starmac: How would you find ammunition on Craig's List when it is one of the items specifically not allowed to be posted?

People post it there anyway, doesn't get pulled till someone flags it.

[Comrade Mike]

I have to wonder if the prices we're seeing aren't the "new normal", though. With the closure of the doe run smelter, lead to make new ammo is likely going to have to be imported (if I'm understanding everything correctly), and that can't possibly be cheaper than making it domestically. I fear we'll never see the prices of a couple of years ago come back.

The ammunition shortage has NOTHING to do with the closing of that smelter. All the lead used to make ammunition comes from the very lucrative lead recycling industry. Primary lead just isn't a very big money maker in this country anymore. If the market demands it a new primary smelter will open, right now we'll import and recycle because that's where the market is.

I agree with what everyone else has said though, at .10$ a round they can keep the .22. I can shoot my .38's all day for the same price.

[lka]

I went into a local hardware store last week, they sell some ammo, I talked to the dude and he said they were selling the 555 (may be 525) cartons for 125.00 and sold them all in one day, I'm pretty sure I used to pick those boxs up for around 20.00 so I asked the dude if he was gauging people and he didn't give me a stright answer,, I wanted to know if this is the new price for these things or if he was just ripping people off. luckily I have a huge stash of 22lr but with son falling I live with 10-22 I may need more in a year or so. But $125???

[jcwit]

I went into a local hardware store last week, they sell some ammo, I talked to the dude and he said they were selling the 555 (may be 525) cartons for 125.00 and sold them all in one day, I'm pretty sure I used to pick those boxs up for around 20.00 so I asked the dude if he was gauging people and he didn't give me a stright answer,, I wanted to know if this is the new price for these things or if he was just ripping people off. luckily I have a huge stash of 22lr but with son falling I live with 10-22 I may need more in a year or so. But $125???

Sound like gouging to me!

[MUSTANG]

Orest Michaels
Chief Operating Officer CMP posted on Dec.17, 2013



On Jan. 10, 2014 he posted



So in about 2 weeks we should know more about the ammunition situation from someone who is in a position to get some answers and who has been above reproach in communicating with the shooting community.

Mr. Michaels regularly posts to and has his own section on the CMP Forum.
http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=76



Mr. Michaels can be quite open and above reproach in communicating with the shooting community; but he and others MUST RELY ON INFORMATION THEY ARE PROVIDED.

There will always be a portion of society that advocates that there is a conspiracy occurring (and history tells us that conspiracies occur far more often than the populace is aware of, or acknowledges). What is important in overcoming the situation is to locate facts, and establish/implement a viable alternative.

1. If run 24 Hours a day, 365 days a year - What is the most 22LR production capable by US manufacturers?
2. What is the total production rate of 22LR in 2013?
3. Subtract qty in #2 from Qty in #3; and you have unused capacity.
4. If Qty in #3 is above (0) Zero; then the Manufacturing Industry in the U.S. is NOT DOING ALL THEY CAN to alleviate the shortage. I am sure the manufacturers will not be forthcoming with info on 1 through 4.


I have no doubt that the Manufacturers will raise 22LR prices, If they feel the market will bear the rate. I also have no doubt that manufacturers will pass on the cost of: Political Meddling, Regulatory over reach, and emerging inflation.

What comes to mind is a series of questions:

1. What portion of the public will continue to pay inflated prices for 22LR, and for how long.
2. Will shooters band together to "Make the Gougers eat their inflated inventory"?
3. Will shooters band together to seek import or manufacturing alternatives similar to what I Postulated in another post:



Potential Solution to the shortage?

I tend to be a person that seeks solutions rather than grousing about problems.

1. Does anyone have any knowledge of old/surplus equipment for making 22LR that is not currently in use to make 22LR's?

2. If we must rely upon existing US manufacturers, is their limitation a concern that investing in new plant and equipment will be lost because the shortage will end and their investment sit idle, and represent a loss of investment?

3. If the speculation in #2 above is true, are there alternatives?

a. How many shooters would be willing to buy into a group "Corporate Bond" from one or more of the Ammo Manufacturers, tailored specifically to increasing the production of 22LR's. If 10,000 shooters bought a "Share" at $250.00, that would represent an investment value of $2.5M. If the idea has merit, attempting to get NRA, GAO, etc.. on board to get the word out would be warranted. There would also potentially be quite a few "Non_Shooter" investors who might become interested if the Bond Rate paid say 5% to 7.5% and was attached to a Long Term Company such as Winchester, Remington, CCI/Speer, et.al.. who underwriters would have confidence in.

b. Can we identify any entrepreneurs interested in entering the 22LR manufacturing market? Once again, if the Entrepreneur is legitimate/viable, but the issue is investment capital, a solution similar to (a) above is worth considering.

c. Can we identify any existing Import businesses that can bring in 22LR from Mexico, Canada, Europe, Australia, or even the Godless Commie Chinese? If capital is an issue, consideration of (a) above as a mechanism to finance is a thought.


We can continue to grouse about the lack of 22LR, complain that the vendors/manufacturers are not meeting our needs, or seek to identify and implement solutions.

[starmac]

Well when sportsmans can still sell 525 round bricks for 25.99, I would say your hardware store selling at 125, is above gouging.
The manufacturers have increased their prices, but from what I have read in is very little, probably no more than what the value of the dollar has gone down.

[olereb]

I doubt many new shooters will be dumb enough to pay that kind of prices.

Yesterday I drove out to the range at 7am and when I got there it was packed to the gills with people shooting their fancy new tacticool ar's and their .22's,so many actually I just chatted with a few for a bit and drove home never firing a shot. Everyone I talked to was a new gun owner and had no idea that they got raped on their ammo,as long as there are people like that prices aren't going down. There was 1 guy there that was shooting a 45-70,that was the ONLY rifle that wasn't either a AR or a .22 and they were burning through high priced 22lr like it was handed out for free.

[Blacksmith]

It is their money they can spend it as they wish.
It is their business they can run it as they please.
It is your life live it as you wish as long as you don't interfere with others.

[taiden]

It is their money they can spend it as they wish.
It is their business they can run it as they please.
It is your life live it as you wish as long as you don't interfere with others.

The Libertarian's Cry?

[starmac]

I don't care if a person pays 200 bucks for a brick, like you said it is their money. I don't expect to hear them whining about the cost now or in the future though.

I expect shooting will be a short lived hobby for those willing to pay scalpers prices, but could be wrong.

[27judge]

I have 2 22 rifles left, one my grandfather gave me and a slightly custom ruger 10/22. Both are used for squirrel hunting only , I do no plinking with them . I have about 1500 rds of 22 lr that will last a lot of squirrels. I now do all my casual/plinking with my grandsons using only cast bullets . This is in rifles 30 and 35 cal and pistols 357 thru 50 cal. All cost figured out I shoot my 300 blackout ar15 far cheaper then a 22 lr and the kids love the boom. When I switch over to light loads in my 500 JRH its still cheaper then 22 lr and the kids really love the boom. Problem is those 12.99 bricks of 22 lr were sure fast to reload I spent hardly no time at all on the reloading bench. But ill not stand in a line every morning at walmart for a box of 50 lr for the prices they want for them . I would rather get my two grandsons and have a few hours at the loading bench together, seems to me a far better use of my time. and tks for your time KEN

[jcwit]

I don't care if a person pays 200 bucks for a brick, like you said it is their money. I don't expect to hear them whining about the cost now or in the future though.

I expect shooting will be a short lived hobby for those willing to pay scalpers prices, but could be wrong.

Right, just as those that decide to get into reloading then find it's not for them. Then the equipment either stands idle or they sell it. But then I could be wrong also.

There are those here who even think I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this.

[762 shooter]

The facts:

1. 22LR will never be out of production.
2. If/when your 22 ammunition stores run out, you only have two choices. Buy and shoot or not.
3. There will always be a demand for 22LR.
4. 22LR will always be the cheapest, off the shelf ammo.
5. 22 has the lightest recoil of any production caliber.
6. 22LR is not practically reloadable.


Possible facts:

1. There are more 22 rim fire firearms that any other caliber in the US.
2. People that own any firearms, own at least one 22.
3. Anyone teaching a new shooter of any age will start with a 22.
4. 22 LR will never be much cheaper than it is right........now...now....now.

Since you asked, my personal opinion is that the government unable to put together any worthwhile conspiracy. I think the 22 and center fire ammo shortage is simply caused by more people realizing the facts and pseudo-facts as listed above. There is some profiteering, over buying, and fear fueling this demand.

As was stated above, this is what happens around here when a hurricane is headed this way. Luckily it is very localized and the rest of the country can take up the slack for these times when everyone in this locale seems to need milk and/or bread at the same time. Same thing happened in the 80's when everyone decided to fill up their gas tanks instead of buying 3 or 4 dollars worth of gas. (Gas was cheap then.)

This opinion is certified to be the truth and you must believe it.

762

[starmac]

I tend to think that the price of 22 will come down if the political climate EVER changes. I can see more shooters getting in the game, in previously unheard of numbers, the last few years, but many of these will be casual shooters or not stay in the game at all. Once everyones closets are full, then 22 will be setting on the shelves, and in warehouses then prices will drop accordingly. I DON'T think it will ever be as cheap as it once was, as the basic worth of the dollar will never be as good as it once was.

At the going price of components, at least in this area, even at what I have to pay for 22 ammo, there is no cartridge that can be reloaded cheaper. The primers alone are only 2 cents cheaper than a 22 shell.

[jcwit]

It amazes me that .22 firearms are still in demand. Especially the semi-autos.

Its like buying a gas guzzler in a fuel shortage. MOOC

[dragon813gt]

I can't wait for 22, powder and primers to be back on the shelves everywhere so these type of threads stop. All three are back on the shelf by me. 22 is a little high in price but it's available.

[lka]

Well when sportsmans can still sell 525 round bricks for 25.99, I would say your hardware store selling at 125, is above gouging.
The manufacturers have increased their prices, but from what I have read in is very little, probably no more than what the value of the dollar has gone down.

I couldn't find any on their website, they had no 22 LRs :(

[mold maker]

Do you guys remember when Johnny Carson made the statement that toilet paper was in short supply?
I do, and sure enough there was a run on TP and the store shelves were emptied.
As long as discussions like this go on, the problem will feed off it's self. It's even being discussed in the Nat media which only fans the flames of greed.
If a store owner can get a supply, that he knows he can't easily replace, why wouldn't he ask a high price? His reason for opening the door every morning is to make a profit, and empty shelves don't get it.

[27judge]

Considering my time I would much rater use 22 lr for casual/plinking shooting . But with the price and the problem in finding it and the limited supply they will give you ill just shoot cast until things get back a little more to normal . Besides the grandkids love the bigger boom and the higher jump of the beer/soda can . tks KEN

[starmac]

I couldn't find any on their website, they had no 22 LRs :(

I wouldn't know, I have never looked at their website. What I do know for a fact is they get it in periodically here at least, and sometimes in a fairly large amount.
I also know (for a fact) it is either 25.99 or 26.99 for a 525 round brick of remingtons, the 500 round bricks of federal are selling 3 bucks higher. I also know for a fact they will only allow you a brick a day, and the several times I have bought any, I have always went back at opening time the next morning to see nothing. It all sells, no matter the size of the order in a matter of hours. I will not stand in line to get it at any price, but as I have had the time this winter and it is only a couple of miles, I make a habit of checking on tuesdays and thursdays when I know someone that needs some, but hasn't the time to stop when they have it. I also pick up some for christmas gifts too.

22 magnum and 17hmr has been even scarcer here.

[WILCO]

It is their money they can spend it as they wish.
It is their business they can run it as they please.
It is your life live it as you wish as long as you don't interfere with others.

By reading this thread, it's painfully obvious that folks don't understand basic economics. It's also obvious that should they ever be in a position of doing business or selling items that are in high demand and costly to acquire, they themselves would be put out at being referenced as "Hoarders, Gougers, Scalpers and Rapists".

Just saying.

[largom]

My 22 Hornet, 222 Rem., and 223's all shoot cast boolits much cheaper than 22LR's. Glad I stocked up on primers many, many, many years ago.

Larry

[trapper9260]

Right, just as those that decide to get into reloading then find it's not for them. Then the equipment either stands idle or they sell it. But then I could be wrong also.

There are those here who even think I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this.

You are right there is some think that reloading is the way to go and then stop not only it is not for them but then say it cost too much also and yes it will do like you stated it will sit in some place and get dust.I had some said they will get into reloading and then come up it cost too much after the ammo start to show up.

[Shooternz]

Check this out 7000 miles by sea and it is still reasonably priced,
http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/ammunition/auction-683078661.htm
These guys aren't always the cheapest,
We have a consumer watch dog set up by the government to stop gouging they have serious teeth
nobody tries bucking them, our ammo prices are still at normal levels a 500 brick of CCI standard is $45.00 most places been that price for quite some time, the exchange rate and freight keep costs high but we don't have to worry about getting screwed by the resellers. Robert.

[singleshot]

The facts:

...cut..........
This opinion is certified to be the truth and you must believe it.

762

Hey 762, when fact checked on Snopes, this checks out! LOL! ROTFL!

[w0fms]

Well, I look and ask every time I step into a Wally World, and I get a $23 brick of 22 LR (550 Federal "Value") about every 75 days on average. I know when they put them out, and the manager there also knows I personally stock a local YHEC program with some of them too... so if you are patient and diligent, you can still get almost normal priced bricks. (Yeah, there were $18 before Sandy Hook.. but.. I doubt if they will be again). But at the gun shows everyone is still asking $75 a brick. 9mm is back to normal everywhere here, and 223 is available but at about $0.10/rd more than before. But no one is buying so we will see. Only 22LR and 380 seems to be hard to get and/or overpriced here in E. Iowa anymore, and even then you just have to be patient and ready to impulse buy when you see it reasonably priced.

[taiden]

You can find it now, you just have to use some modern trickery.

I got 5000 rounds of American Eagle from Midway yesterday DELIVERED for 4.5 cents a round.

And for the guys who say it's too expensive at 10 cents a round... hogswash. Modern primer and powder prices get me at 7 cents a round with a 5gr charge and SPP when reloading. This completely ignores lead, case life and cost, equipment, and time. I don't know of any centerfire that is less than four times the price of 22lr at the 10 cents a round estimate.

If I were to surmise the true value of 22lr in these times, I would guess it around 15 to 20 cents a round. From what I've seen, that's about right. Plus, if you are valuing it as a survival tool, you could argue that it's about equal to the severe injury or death of one enemy, or the amount of food harvested (hopefully in separate events!). That makes the value rocket up, but it's held down by the current market value of centerfire.

Even though 22lr is a gajillion times more expensive at 10 cents a round as compared to your collective youths, it's still cheaper than anything but an air rifle.

And yes, it is "Obama's fault" that we can't get 22lr. But it's not some crazy government conspiracy, it's the lingering effects from the mad-dash to the store that created scarcity which increased demand which raised market value AS A RESULT of the Obama administration discussing gun control laws post Sandy Hook. Once this calms down, 22lr will return to reasonable prices, although probably not $18 for a box of 550.

I have to say, of all the hobbies I've been into (there have been so many), no one scares quite like the gun crowd. For reasonably good reasons, I might add. It doesn't help that conservative publications just LOVE to tap into emotionally charged journalism to keep everyone going, for reasons I can only imagine.

[jonp]

MidSouth has 22 in stock. Delivered it works out to $6/100 or something like that. Expensive but not crazy like some of the sites. They do limit you on the amount you buy.

[taiden]

Lots of older guys on here who like to talk about the good ol days. My good ol days were late 90s. I'm about the youngest you get who still remember 9/11.

Also I don't know how the term "carpet bagger" has made it into this thread. A carpet bagger is a Yankee who moved to the south after the Civil War. At least that's what it means on the east coast.

[taiden]

Oh, I see. Carry on.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

lets do the numbers

100 million gun owners

the majority own at least one 22lr

dec 2012 some bad stuff happened , people flocked to the stores to buy ammo before the price jumped like they knew it would why cause it goes up every time politicians talk gun control after something bad happens

tacticool 22 AR style guns with 25 round magazines are in style , bigger magazines mean more rounds fired per range trip , there were runs on ammo before the last 2 elections

back to the numbers , lets say 40 million people own 22lr firing guns , lets say they saw the scarcity in dec 2012 or some time after the next time they could buy a brick they did

if 40 million people all buy 1 brick it is 20 billion rounds

estimates that ATK can produce 4 million rounds a day roughly confirmed by article in American rifleman , that is about 13 years production divie that by all manufacturers and your talking a 2-3 year consumption of ammo.

there might have been several months production sitting in distributors ware houses , that went away with the initial rush , now we get a trickle of ammo in shipments here and there

but most of the manufacturers are spending money to increase production , they may not solve the demand issue over night or even in a few months but they see there is a huge number of new shooters , women shooters is up 5 million in the last year per article high capacity 22s the sold a lot of them, people shoot a lot from them



the good news from all this , gun ownership is nearing 50 percent of the voting public last estimate was 47% , now all gun owners need to come to a few agreements about conditions candidates must meet and we could see a very gun friendly future , but we have to find issues to agree on

now we just need some good candidates , that makes fixing the ammo shortage look easy

[762 shooter]

Definitions:

hoard (hôrd, hrd)
n.
A hidden fund or supply stored for future use; a cache.
v. hoard·ed, hoard·ing, hoards

Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities at a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In the Soviet Union, it was simply included under the single definition of speculation.

The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property. In jurisdictions where there is no such crime, the term may still be used to pressure firms to refrain from such behavior.

gouge (gouj)
n.
1. A chisel with a rounded, troughlike blade.
2.
a. A scooping or digging action, as with such a chisel.
b. A groove or hole scooped with or as if with such a chisel.
3. Informal A large amount, as of money, exacted or extorted.
tr.v. gouged, goug·ing, goug·es
1. To cut or scoop out with or as if with a gouge: "He began to gouge a small pattern in the sand with his cane" (Vladimir Nabokov).
2.
a. To force out the eye of (a person) with one's thumb.
b. To thrust one's thumb into the eye of.
3. Informal To extort from.
4. Slang To swindle.


Scalper

1. To cut or tear the scalp from.
2. To deprive of top growth or a top layer: land scalped by strip miners.
3. To resell at a price higher than the established value: scalping tickets to the baseball game.
4. To buy and sell (securities or commodities) in order to make small quick profits.
v.intr.
1. To engage in the reselling of something, such as tickets, at a price higher than the established value.
2. To buy and sell securities or commodities for small quick profits.

Scalper maybe. The others not so much.

762

[David2011]

At the Odessa, TX gun show today I saw lots of .22, as in all you could want, available at high to ridiculous prices. I overheard two vendors talking. One of them said he was selling .22 for a friend for $70/brick and the friend had told him that he hadn't paid over $7.99 for any of them. I truly believe that much of the .22 shortage is artificially created by a small number of buyers removing the ammunition from the normal retail chain and making it available through gun shows and other alternate channels at inflated prices. People who reject that idea are entitled to their opinion the same as I have mine. I've personally witnessed enough to satisfy myself and have had enough more first hand stories told to me that I no longer doubt that it is a huge portion of the problem.

David

[starmac]

Anybody that pays 70 bucks a brick is a huge portion of the problem. At the last few gunshows here there has been 2 or 3 tables with a small amount of 22 ammo at high prices, by high I'm talking 50 bucks a brick. I have actually seen one that had winchester 500 round bricks for 20 too. When I stop at a table that has outlandish prices for 22, he could have 50 dollar ruger blackhaws next to it and I will still go on to the next table.

I stopped at a garage sale last year that had a shotgun I wanted at a good price, when I got over by the door he had several bricks of 22 ammo, so I asked how much. I just carried the shotgun case back to where I got it after I got his answer and let him keep it too.

[taiden]

I just carried the shotgun case back to where I got it after I got his answer and let him keep it too.

You have strong principles. That's all I can say about that.

[oldred]

I truly believe that much of the .22 shortage is artificially created by a small number of buyers removing the ammunition from the normal retail chain and making it available through gun shows and other alternate channels at inflated prices. People who reject that idea are entitled to their opinion the same as I have mine.David


I have no trouble at all believing that and it's almost a certainty! Everything from Wal-Mart (and most any big retailer) employees making deals with friends to 22 ammo being intercepted between the distributors and retailers by scalpers, when there's that much profit to be made from something that's not even illegal it's just bound to happen to some degree and then those folks standing in line grab up what's left! This however is not in any way some kind of conspiracy or sinister plot it's just simply unscrupulous people taking advantage of the situation and it's exactly the kind of thing we have been talking about all along.

[DRNurse1]

While we were fighting anti-gun laws the antis slipped in the back door and priced us out of being able to practice the RTKBA.
Combine that with so-called "Quantitative Easing" like mini-hyper-inflation, our dollar doesn't go as far.
I think it is all by design. To many mistakes one on top of the other in the management of our country.
Nobody could make that many bad decisions unintentionally.

I think the only answer is to have more factories making 22LR in the US.
Factories that can make rim-fire can also make primers, the other component adversely effected.

Mr Weddle:

I think you nailed it. Prices are not likely to come down because of devalued dollars and lack of supply. I grabbed about 700 rounds of Remington HV 22LR HP at Wally World recently just to keep teaching. Cost was 'reasonable' at about $30, but pre-Sandy Hook, they were half that.

Starmac points out that we need to vote with our dollars as well, but the new shooters are caught between a rock and a hard place trying to get ammo to feed the new habit.

I have encouraged a couple to try centerfire, and they put the 22LR away for now. But the Boy Scouts, our yourth rifle programs, et al are restricted to 22LR by the organization policy. The CMP is trying to help, but they are short on 22LR ammo, too.

I would love to find a way to 'encourage' 22LR manufacturers to increase capacity and and black list the commercial scalpers, but I sure do not buy enough 22LR to push that agenda.

[jonp]

At the Dixie Classic in Raleigh, NC yesterday there was much talk in the line about not finding any 22lr in stock. I wish I had brought a few thousand with me that I found cleaning out a cupboard yesterday.
The prices on 22lr inside from the venders that had some were crazy to ridiculous. $20/ 50 for 22Mag? 50rd boxes of CCI Stingers for $15? 525 rd boxes for $50? Rem Golden Bullet 100 packs for $25? I walked on by and while I saw a couple of people buy some they were few and far between.

[taiden]

Personally, someone would have to give me $40 a 500 pack for it to be worth it to me. It's a pain in the *** to find and I'd rather hold onto it for that or less.