RCBS 30-180-FN in 30/30

[auzzie101]

Hello all,

I cast up some 180-FN boolits last night and wanted to get some loaded. They are weighing about 196gr gas checked and lubed. Seems a little heavy to me and I can't seem to find much for reloading data. I have a Marlin 336 in 30/30 and a Remington mod141 in 30 rem I want to shoot these through. So my questions are:

Does 196gr seem correct for this boolit?

Anyone have a good recipe for this size boolit in a 30/30?

Thanks!

[jtaylor1960]

I don't have that mold but everyone I've talked to about it tell of weights in the 190- 200 grain range. As always be carefull using someone elses loads.I have seen Jim Taylor's load of 26.0grs of H-335.I've seen loads of up to 30.0grs with that powder and bullet.All are reporting good acuracy with these combinations. I use Varget in my 32spl. with a cast bullet of 185grs.It is also a good powder in the 30/30.

[6pt-sika]

I have the RCBS 30-180 mould :-D

Typically bullets cast of WW's fall from the mould at about 183-185 for me !

I load them in the 30-30 , but only with XMP5744 [smilie=1:

[auzzie101]

I see a load for xmp5744 in lee's 2nd edition for 190gr lead. I think I may need to make a trip to town for some powder.

[fa38]

My 30-180 flat nose weighs 200 grains with LBT Blue Soft and a gas check. The rest of the load is 37 grs. H414, Win LR primer, Winchester cases neck turned to fit into the .328 neck diameter chamber. Rifle is a Ruger No. 1 with a MATCO barrel. I don't know if I would want to shoot this in a lever gun but it works fine in the Ruger.
fa38

[felix]

Too hot for continuous shooting in a lever gun, but OK for that long range deer. ... felix

[26Charlie]

In the .30-30 and .30 Remington have used 21.0 gr. 4198 with good results with the 30-180-FN, which is dropping at 190 gr. from my mould. My .30 Rem. is a Model 8, and the bullet nose length makes it a bit long for perfect functioning if seated to the crimp groove, so I seat it to the top band and don't crimp it. The box magazine of the Model 8 doesn't require a crimp.

This bullet is also great in other .30 calibers. I used it in the .30-06 with 25 gr. RLR7 to shoot NMC target matches up to 200 yards. It would give me 98's in standing and sitting rapid, and 92's in prone, back in the day.

[felix]

That is exactly my go-to load when loading for guns around town. Prolly the most consistently accurate load with that boolit weight range in all kinds of weather and guns. 21 grains 4198 in 30-30. ... felix

[Junior1942]

Ready to load, mine weigh 195 grs. In my 30-30 model 94 Winchester, I push it to 1900 fps with Varget. I think it's the very best bullet for 30-30 lever actions.

[auzzie101]

Well, I just picked up a lb of xmp5744 and I have lots of 4198. So I'll do a batch of each and see which one my rifles like best. Thanks for the help.

[crowbeaner]

I used to load them sized .308 in my SRC 94. I used the RCBS manual (which I can't find and it REALLY irks me) and WW 748. IIRC (and look it up please) the charge was 34.0. Accuracy was a single ragged hole at 50 yds. with the irons, and they shot right on POA dead center. I was flabbergasted; I've never had a rifle that didn't have to have the sights adjusted. I took 2 deer with it, and neither went more than 50 yards. Weight was 182 without the gascheck out of #2 clone alloy.

[6pt-sika]

For my 30-30's now I size EVERYTHING in a .312" die !!!!!!!

:drinks:

[angleiron]

My RCBS .30-180 FN comes out at 187 gr using 5lb. of wheel weights to 1/2 lb 50/50 bar solder. The rifle is a Savage 24V 30/30 over a 12 ga single shot. I've gotten as tight as 3-1/2" groups at 100 yds with 26 gr. of IMR-4895. I'm still working to tighten that up, but I'll try IMR 3031 next

[Maineboy]

I tried this boolit in a number of 30 caliber rifles in side by side tests with the lighter Lyman 311041. More often than not, the RCBS was a bit more accurate, but not always. My boolits weigh 196 grains, cast from wheel weights, lubed and checked. In my scoped pre-MG Marlin 336, 24.5 grains of surplus CMR100 put 5 in just over 1/2 inch and 24 grains of RE-7 put 5 in 3/4" both at 50 yards. The only load I chronographed is 31 grains of H380 which went 1800 fps and was good for 2 1/2" at 100 yards. There were signs of too much pressure though but 30 grains was just as accurate.

[Paul B]

I have the RCBS cast bullet manual and that 34.0 gr. of W-748 is way over the limit. The proper charges with W-748 are stat, 28.0 gr. for 1818 FPS and maximum 30.0 for 1963 FPS. My result with the 28.0 gr. load was 1950 FPS from an M94 20" carbine. That's a good speed for that bullet as it duplicates the factory load for the old .303 Savage which had a reputation with some as being a better killer on game than the 30-30 with it's lighter 170 gr. bullet.
I can only say that the two der I have taken with the RCBS bullet never complained that it was inadequate at that speed.
Paul B.

[Marlin Junky]

36 to 37 grains of H414/760 is OK for a modern 30-30 in good condition but could be exceeding 40K CUP. I am happy with about 33 grains of H380 and RCBS 30-180-FN but I won't go softer than BHN 14 with this load. My molds cast boolits that weigh 199+ grains when checked while using straight clip-on WW metal, so I add a little type metal to get the hardness up to 14 which casts boolits in the 195 to 196 range. Under most conditions, a softer boolit will boost pressure.

Velocities from 24" lever action barrels exceed 2100 fps in the summer time, so work up cautiously.

MJ

[Maineboy]

36 to 37 grains of H414/760 is OK for a modern 30-30 in good condition but could be exceeding 40K CUP. I am happy with about 33 grains of H380 and RCBS 30-180-FN but I won't go softer than BHN 14 with this load. My molds cast boolits that weigh 199+ grains when checked while using straight clip-on WW metal, so I add a little type metal to get the hardness up to 14 which casts boolits in the 195 to 196 range. Under most conditions, a softer boolit will boost pressure.

Velocities from 24" lever action barrels exceed 2100 fps in the summer time, so work up cautiously.

MJ

I never thought about boolit hardness affecting chamber pressure. In my Marlin, there are obvious differences in primer flattening between the 30 and 31 grain loads of H380. I used just wheel weights casting them, and may have had a bit of pure lead mixed in as well. I'll have to try some with lino thrown in and water dropped to see if the pressure signs are still there with the 31 grain load.

[Marlin Junky]

I never thought about boolit hardness affecting chamber pressure. In my Marlin, there are obvious differences in primer flattening between the 30 and 31 grain loads of H380. I used just wheel weights casting them, and may have had a bit of pure lead mixed in as well. I'll have to try some with lino thrown in and water dropped to see if the pressure signs are still there with the 31 grain load.


Maineboy,

At 31 to 32 grains of H380 is where accuracy really started to get good during my trials using Fed 210 and WLR primers. If your 30-180-FN molds are like mine, shoot for an alloy that drops bare boolits in the 191 grain neighborhood using clip-on WW metal and something like type metal or lead-free solder as a hardening agent. Heat treating MAY help accuracy a little but only if your boolits start out inconsistently hard. Personally, I don't care for heat treating when loading large batches of ammo when I'm not sure how long it will be stored before firring... especially if it's match ammo.

When I resize cases I just barely touch the shoulder and brass lasts until the necks crack. I occasionally use a Lee Collet Die for neck-only sizing but need to reset the case body length slightly after about two reloads because chambering gets sticky. I don't think these loads are to hot for my old 336's but they don't get a steady diet. They are used for taking down the Rams on the 200m silhouette course and never fail even with hits low on the legs. Several times I've had rams fall forward by having their feet shot out from underneath them. My 336's are pre-55 models, so your mileage may vary.

What kind of accuracy were you getting with the softer boolits and H380? I found it pretty easy to get less than 2MOA at over 2100 fps from the 24" Ballard rifled 336's using 32 to 33 grains of H380.

MJ

[Maineboy]

I was getting 2 1/2 inch groups for 5 shots at 100 yards. I was trying for a 1900 fps deer hunting load to use in the thick stuff. This marlin is not as accurate as my old Winchester 1894 26' rifle, but I won't push anything through the Winchester except light loads so I can't compare the effects of barrel length.

[crowbeaner]

Thank you PaulB! I couldn't remember what the charge was; that's why I said to look it up! Is the 30-150-FP max. 34.0? I'm going to have to get another book. I just wish someone on gunbroker would have one reasonably priced. CB.

[Maineboy]

Here's one for $14.00 on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RCBS-CAST-BULLET-MANUAL-1-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ110203188979QQihZ001QQcategoryZ7 1118QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think I paid $3.00 about 5 years ago for my copy.


Thank you PaulB! I couldn't remember what the charge was; that's why I said to look it up! Is the 30-150-FP max. 34.0? I'm going to have to get another book. I just wish someone on gunbroker would have one reasonably priced. CB.

[crowbeaner]

That's why I said reasonable. 20+ years old and wants as much as a new book. I have a local used bookstore looking for me. CB.

[Marlin Junky]

I was getting 2 1/2 inch groups for 5 shots at 100 yards. I was trying for a 1900 fps deer hunting load to use in the thick stuff. This marlin is not as accurate as my old Winchester 1894 26' rifle, but I won't push anything through the Winchester except light loads so I can't compare the effects of barrel length.

Maineboy,

Normally, 336's need a little more boolit diameter to achieve their accuracy potential. My old 336A's need .310" to .311" boolits in order to shoot 1.5MOA five round groups. I've never owned a MircoGroove 336 but have heard the same holds true for them.

MJ

[Maineboy]

Maineboy,

Normally, 336's need a little more boolit diameter to achieve their accuracy potential. My old 336A's need .310" to .311" boolits in order to shoot 1.5MOA five round groups. I've never owned a MircoGroove 336 but have heard the same holds true for them.

MJ

If I remember right, my 30-180-FN drops WW boolits at a bit over .310, so without Beagling, I'm out of luck diameter wise. Normally I size all my 30 caliber boolits .311. My Marlin is a pre MicroGroove version and I confess that I haven't sized the bore in it. My Winchester has a .309 bore and will shoot nearly everything I've put through it very well. The Marlin is a pretty good shooter too, just not as accurate as my old Winchester.

[Marlin Junky]

If I remember right, my 30-180-FN drops WW boolits at a bit over .310, so without Beagling, I'm out of luck diameter wise. Normally I size all my 30 caliber boolits .311. My Marlin is a pre MicroGroove version and I confess that I haven't sized the bore in it. My Winchester has a .309 bore and will shoot nearly everything I've put through it very well. The Marlin is a pretty good shooter too, just not as accurate as my old Winchester.

You might be surprised if you shim at the GC shanks parallel to the vent lines, size/check at .311" and seat to touch, or about 2.57". If your pre-55 336 is chambered like mine, the crimp groove on 30-180-FN is placed a bit high on the boolit shank for a correct fit. Also, BHN 14 metal may just plain work better in the 10" twist of the Marlin opposed to straight clip-on WW metal. I have had good results with boolits all the way down to BHN 13.5 or so but have never seriously shot anything softer for accuracy testing.

MJ

[lotech]

I don't shoot .30 caliber cast bullets very often anymore, but I did use this bullet extensively, beginning around '86 or '87. Based on a lot of shooting in a number of rifles chambered in .30-30, .30-40, .300 Savage, .308, .30-06, and even 7.62x39the RCBS 30-180 FN was the best choice for the caster / loader that wanted one mould producing a bullet that would shoot with reasonable, if not exceptional, accuracy in almost any .30 caliber rifle. Were I to experiment in this area today with what is currently available, my opinion might change considerably.

For use in .30-30 chambering ('94 Winchester), I cast this bullet from linoytpe alloy (185 grains, lubed and gas checked) and sized to .309". 20 grains of IMR-4198 powder provided a muzzle velocity of 1,650 fps. My notes indicate this was an accurate load that I'm going to guess grouped around 2" benchrested at 100 yards using an aperture sight. Primers were CCI large rifle, brass was Federal, lube was LBT Blue or Thompson Blue Angel Cold (can't tell any performance difference between the two). Overall cartridge length was a bit long at 2.56", but this length works fine in my 1980's model '94. Some time after my initial work, I tried wheelweight alloy. The as-cast bullet measured right at .309" or slightly less and I ran it through a .310" die. The bullet weighed 195 grains fully dressed. 20 grains of Reloder 7 provided a muzzle velocity of 1,460, again with good 100 yard accuracy. This load could probably be increased for additional velocity and still shoot well.

My '94 Winchester has a chamber a bit on the tight side for use with cast bullets; my brass must be neck-turned.

With its wide and blunt nose, the RCBS 30-180 FN may be about as good a cast 30 caliber hunting bullet as there is, but that may not be saying a lot. I'm not an expert with a vast amount of hunting experience. I've only taken a couple of whitetail deer with using this bullet in a .30-40 Krag (and at higher velocity than my .30-30 loads). I was unimpressed with terminal perfromance.