6.5 Grendel vs 300 Blackout???

[TheGrimReaper]

I want a new rifle. I can't decide between a 300 Blackout or a 6.5 Grendel. I want to shoot cast and be easy on powder. It will be a boltaction rifle. Which would you do???

[john hayslip]

The blackout is a 223 case necked up to 30 whereas the Grendel is a 7.62x39 case necked down to 6.5 and has more case capacity. The Blackout id basically when shot supersonic the equivalent of the 7.62x39 - you can get 22-2300 fps with the 125 grain bullet. I'd expect better from the Grendel. If I were using suppressed I'd use the Blackout but if supersonic the Grendel.
I have a Blackout and my subsonic load is 9.3 grains of IMR4227 behind the 208 grain Hornady V-Max. I have access to a friends suppressor. That is a chronographed load. It will not function my AR w/o a suppressor and I have not yet tried it with one.

There are some really good 6.5 bullets out there.

[bruce drake]

Considering brass (6.5 Grendel is reformed 7.62x39 while 300BLK is cutdown 5.56) and mold availability and since you are considering you are planning to shoot this in a bolt rifle which opens up a lot more powder selections, I will tell you that you should consider the 300BLK. I own a 300BLK in an AR upper and I'm saving up for a 6.5 Grendel upper as well. I know I can safely shoot 12 different 30 cal molds in the 300 BLK but I only have 2 different molds for my 6.5 chambered rifles.

I've fired my 300BLK out to 300 yards with 110gr Supersonic loads with confidence and have done 150gr shots at 100 yards with equal accuracy.

But in the long run, you choose whatever you decide is best for your planned applications.

Bruce

[Jupiter7]

I think for the velocity range of cast boolit performance, the 300blk wins. 6.5grendel is a great cartridge but it only beats 300blk at the higher supersonic ranges(2300fps+). 300blk is also really efficient, max powder charges around 20grs. Also, 6.5 Grendel requires special magazines and a 7.62x39 bolt head. If I was looking at a 6.5 cartridge for jacketed boolits in a standard AR, 6.5 Grendel gets my vote. 300blk is perfect for cast boolits.

[303Guy]

Are the two available over the counter in bolt guns? Have you considered the 7.62x39? Not saying you should but the thought crossed my mind because they are available. The CZ 527 in 7.62 is said to be a fine gun.

[jonp]

Since i have a couple of ar's already id go 300blk

[Whiterabbit]

gotta go with 7tcu, Alex.

but since you have two very specific choices, I pick the 30 cal.

The 6.5 Grendel is designed for jacketed bullets, jacketed velocity. It would make, by far, IMO, the superior bolt action rifle as you can load to 60ksi and run 140 grain VLD's and shoot very long range without lots of recoil or powder used. Can't do that in an AR, and would make for a unique and fun little rifle.

but you didn't want a jacketed rifle, you wanted a cast rifle. That's the 300, with powder limitations that guarantee you you are in cast speed range.

It's gonna be as much fun as shooting a 357 rifle. That gets real old for me real quick, but I'm sure some folks cant get enough. But it meets your requirements far better than the Grendel and even keeps brass as a consumable a low price.

[TheGrimReaper]

Are the two available over the counter in bolt guns? Have you considered the 7.62x39? Not saying you should but the thought crossed my mind because they are available. The CZ 527 in 7.62 is said to be a fine gun.

Remington 700 is available in 300 AAC
and the 6.5 grendel I'll have to build on a Savage action.

[dverna]

303guy makes a good point. The 7.62x39 in a CZ would be a nice little gun and outperform a .300BLK. I can see the .300BLK in an AR but see little advantage in having it in a bolt action.

Don Verna

[TheGrimReaper]

I've got a Mini-Mauser in 7.62x39 and LOVE it. I might end up going with a CZ 527. They are supposed to be the cat's meow.

[Doc_Stihl]

Mold Selection made the decision easy for me. Brass availability made it a really easy decision for me. 300 Blackout.

[milsurpcollector1970]

300blk if you are gonna use suppressed or in an AR.

If you are shooting in a bolt action only unsupressed there are much better choices that are just as cheap.

[jonp]

303guy makes a good point. The 7.62x39 in a CZ would be a nice little gun and outperform a .300BLK. I can see the .300BLK in an AR but see little advantage in having it in a bolt action.

Don Verna
^^ I can think of tons of calibers I would rather get in a bolt other than the two mentioned

[GabbyM]

Agree. Blackout case length is cut down simply to fit into the AR-15 magazines. You loose so much powder capacity. One big factor in going bolt action is to leave behind the multitude of limitations and aggravations a gas gun places on a shooter. For a necked up 5.56x45mm case there are almost standard rounds in 6mm, 25, 7mm. A 25x223 with a 1-14" twist shooting the RCBS 100gr FN would be sweet. As mention above there are the whole line of TCU rounds. pretty much necked up and improved Ackley style with case walls straightened out. But some of those shorten the neck. They are for hand guns. There is always the 250 savage. Savage still chambers it but only in the top end rifle and then in a 1-10" twist barrel. Which makes if severely castrated as a boolit shooter in place of the proper twist in 1_14". If you don't need a ton of impact energy a 222 Rem makes a fine boolit shooter. If you can find one. CZ still makes them new. Just run a 5.56mm case in the FL die then trim a tad. You'll get 2,400 fps at least with accuracy and only use 55 to 60 grains of lead and a cheaper gas check. About as efficient as you'll get and I'd call it cheaper than a 22 Hornet because of the brass price. Even if you buy new 222 brass. At 2400 fps you can actually shoot in a ten MPH cross wind and hit something on first shot at 100 to 200 yards. My 223 bolt gun with 1-12 twist is shooting cast at 2140 fps sub MOA at 100 yards. I'm using 14.5 grains of 4198 but am going to try some 2400. I know 2400 will work and have an 8lb jug. 11.5 gr of 2400 gives you around 2200 fps.

Before I stretched things like availability and performance envelope to go 7.62 x 39mm. Any good 308 Win with a 1-12” twist barrel will shoot cast 2200 fps. Plenty of cheep brass like pulled never fired NATO stuff. The 150 to 165 grain bullets don’t kick hardly at all. Shoot 200’s at 2200 fps and they’ll set you back some. I’ve a 150 grain Saeco I shoot at 2200 out of a 30-30 Win 94 and it doesn’t kick. 308’s take some powder though. About 35 grains of Reloader 7. But not if all you want is 7.62x39mm velocity and bullet weights. The CZ 527's are nice six pound guns though. You get to chose between 7.62 x 39 , 222 Rem and 223. Plus some others. Now if we just had that kind of choices in women and jobs.

[oldpapps]

TheGrimReaper,

With the listed desires, I can see only one answer, the 300 BlackOut.
Why:
"I want to shoot cast and be easy on powder." - I have no dough that cast can and will function in a 6 point 5 G but cast is a natural in the BlackOut.
The great advantage of the 6 point 5 G over the BlackOut is it's great long range capabilities, thus long jacketed bullets being pushed at high/er velocities. With cast lead this is diminished, greatly. The BlackOut functions within the normal, traditional, velocity range of cast bullets. So any reduction of velocity would be of very minor importance or amount. The 'candy coated' bullets could make any velocity limits null for cast bullets and if this does come to pass, many standards would change.

As you have stated this is to fired in a 'bolt action' weapon, the power curve/pressure dwell requirements for the functioning of an AR/M4 are out the door. This will only extend the potential of the BlackOut and also the 6 point 5 G. But, I was thinking more in the realm of very fast burning pistol powders in small/er amounts to push the lead... Again leaning toward the BlackOut.

If your requirements were to change, my response could also change.

Enjoy and take great care,

OSOK

[Boolit_Head]

You haven't mentioned the distances you want to shoot. The Blackout tends to run out of legs around 200 yards where the Grendel shines out much further than that.

Oops just saw This was a very old post.