Big Mo.

[popper]

In case some of us don't get there, interesting pics. This is of course after the nam era rebuild.

[GabbyM]

Popper, the link disappeared.

factoid. The New Jersey went to Nam. Pretty much in WWII configuration. All twenty five inch guns mounted. Regan's attack on the evil empire had the four Iowa class ships re built with helicopter decks and cruise missiles.

My brothers former XO on USS Talbot FFG was captain of USS Wisconsin during the first Gulf war.

[popper]

I think the Big Mo. got caught between a rock & hard place. Cheney got started refurb. work and then congress changed the goal and wanted it shut down.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57614152-1/tour-the-battleship-uss-missouri/
We'll try again.

[w5pv]

The mighty MO is a legend in her own time,I would like to see a program where she is brought to seaports in the US where more people could visit her.

[Menner]

The USS Iowa BB61 is in Los Angeles CA. USS New Jersey BB62 is in Camden NJ. USS Missouri BB63 is in Honolulu HI. USS Wisconsin BB64 is in Norfolk Va. They have actually taken them off the registry not just Mothballed them its a shame I served 3 yrs on USS Iowa from 85 to 88 Main Battery Fire Control they are Awesome Ships would not trade my time aboard for anything and the 16" 50's are Bad to the Bone

When They were updated they were equipped with 32 Tomahawks & 16 Harpoon Missiles and 4 C WIZ (CIWS) mounts at that point she had 12 5" 38's ( one of the mounts was manned by Marines for all of Uncle Sam's' Misguided Children out there ) And of course 9 16" 50's the 40mm mounts and tubs had been removed

[Geppetto]

92861

Hopefully the above attachment will work. Over Christmas this year my wife's grandfather gave me a picture he took of the Mo when he was touring on USS The Sullivans (DD-537). He shared a scrap book of his tour with my wife and I, which was a circumnavigation of the globe. He said there was a point that they were on the deck doing some drills when either the Mo or the WI was shelling the inland and there were 16" shells flying overhead. It was quite the story and I am looking forward to getting the picture framed up for my office.

EDIT: Forgot to mention this was during Korea

[Menner]

Great picture

[kens]

I toured BB63 when she was in Subic Bay enroute to first gulf war. That was a solemn moment knowing there were many troops not coming home.
That week in Subic Bay was impressive. 3 flattop carriers, plus all their escorts, plus the 2 marines carriers, plus the hospital ship, plus all the tenders, subs, and Battleship Big Mo. I was stationed at Cubi point, and saw all the squadrons of acft flown in the time.


http://www.glen-l.com/weblettr/webletters-11/webletter88.html#missouri

I just clicked that link, you have to scroll the pics on the left

[Love Life]

I've walked the decks and passageways of the USS Missouri. A truly magnificent ship. I also went to the Arizona memorial as well. It was a humbling experience looking at the Arizona's oil slick.

What really struck me were the WWII veterans from Japan who were visiting. If you ever visit Hawaii, I highly suggest you visit the Pearl Harbor memorial.

[GabbyM]

92861

Hopefully the above attachment will work. Over Christmas this year my wife's grandfather gave me a picture he took of the Mo when he was touring on USS The Sullivans (DD-537). He shared a scrap book of his tour with my wife and I, which was a circumnavigation of the globe. He said there was a point that they were on the deck doing some drills when either the Mo or the WI was shelling the inland and there were 16" shells flying overhead. It was quite the story and I am looking forward to getting the picture framed up for my office.

EDIT: Forgot to mention this was during Korea

Geppetto:
Does your wife's grandfather know they built another USS Sullivan’s a few years back? I’ll wager he does.
Arleigh Burke-class Destroyer. Built in Bath. DDG-68

[obssd1958]

I've walked the decks and passageways of the USS Missouri. A truly magnificent ship. I also went to the Arizona memorial as well. It was a humbling experience looking at the Arizona's oil slick.

What really struck me were the WWII veterans from Japan who were visiting. If you ever visit Hawaii, I highly suggest you visit the Pearl Harbor memorial.

LL,

There is no way to communicate to someone who has yet to visit - just how powerful and moving the Pearl Harbor Memorial, and especially the Arizona Memorial, is.
Truly enough to bring a man to tears - and his knees...

[Frank46]

I was at the Philadelphia naval shipyard back in '67 when they were getting the New Jersey refitted for service in Vietnam. Will never forget walking the teak decks and just staring at those 16" naval barrels. Had just flown in from Rota Spain and was waiting for my separation papers from active duty in inactive duty. Frank

[Powder Burn]

My dad served on USS Arkansas battleship escorting supply ships to Iceland in 39' (dodging U-boats) and was present during the Churchhill/Roosevelt Atlantic charter meeting in Aug 41. Of course this all took place before we entered the war.

He transferred to USS New Jersey when it was commissioned in Dec 43? Spent most of the war island hopping and giving Japan hell. He did tell me they lost some paint going through Panama Canal. He served for 21 years. In the eighties, he returned with some of his buddies to the New Jersey in California (some 40 years later), after the upgrade/refit. Until his passing in 2006, he had a large picture of the New Jersey hanging proudly above his fireplace.

About 10 years ago, my wife and I explored the Missouri in Hawaii on our 30th. Iowa class battleships are very impressive.

[AkMike]

Wasn't it the Missouri that was in Bremerton Wa. about 25+ years ago? I went to see it but it was closing for the day and never got back down there.

[Bad Water Bill]

My boot camp instructor was GM1 off of several BBs

Thee only story I still remember was his saying that when they fired all the guns at the same time the WHOLE ship was moved 16' SIDEWAYS.

900' and ? thousand tons pushed INSTANTLY was recoil I am glad my shoulder never had to suffer thru,

[Echo]

LL,

There is no way to communicate to someone who has yet to visit - just how powerful and moving the Pearl Harbor Memorial, and especially the Arizona Memorial, is.
Truly enough to bring a man to tears - and his knees...
Big Plus One...

[Echo]

My boot camp instructor was GM1 off of several BBs

Thee only story I still remember was his saying that when they fired all the guns at the same time the WHOLE ship was moved 16' SIDEWAYS.

900' and ? thousand tons pushed INSTANTLY was recoil I am glad my shoulder never had to suffer thru,
Sorry, Bill, but I have to call BS on the story. Sixty plus thousand tons is a lot of inertia. The main problem with those rifles was the muzzle blast, Shame on you if you were abreast of the 16/50's when they went off. I heard it likened to being run into by a truck, with a couple mattresses in front. On the other hand, they said the muzzle blast from the 5/38's was like getting hit with a plank!

[Bad Water Bill]

Sorry, Bill, but I have to call BS on the story. Sixty plus thousand tons is a lot of inertia. The main problem with those rifles was the muzzle blast, Shame on you if you were abreast of the 16/50's when they went off. I heard it likened to being run into by a truck, with a couple mattresses in front. On the other hand, they said the muzzle blast from the 5/38's was like getting hit with a plank!

Call it what ever you feel like as that is your right.

However I will take the word of someone that ACTUALLY was there and did that thru WW2 to something someone heard as scuttlebutt.

Altho I never was near a 16" my birthing compartment was directly below a battery of those 5" guns on the USS Randolph.

I worked from 1600 hours till all of the work was done on one of the first two A4D squadrons to put to sea. Most days that meant 0800.

I never woke up when they fired those guns NEVER.

[w5pv]

I have read that elsewhere I am with Bill believe what you want.

[quack1]

My dad's ship was in Tokyo bay when the surrender was signed. He said they watched with binoculars. Here is a picture, his ship is on the left, just above the guy's head.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/1quack1/016307c.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/1quack1/media/016307c.jpg.html)

[Garyshome]

I was on the NC not too long ago. That class BS is awsome.

[Geppetto]

Geppetto:
Does your wife's grandfather know they built another USS Sullivan’s a few years back? I’ll wager he does.
Arleigh Burke-class Destroyer. Built in Bath. DDG-68

I actually mentioned that when we were talking because I had come across it at one point. He does know about it, said he read about it when the new one was commissioned.

[Wayne Smith]

And yes, I too have read that when a full broadside is fired 90 degrees the ship does move sideways in the water. I don't think 16', more like 4' or 5'. I think this is in the display at the Wisconsin. Don't know when I'll be downtown next to go see.

[GabbyM]

And yes, I too have read that when a full broadside is fired 90 degrees the ship does move sideways in the water. I don't think 16', more like 4' or 5'. I think this is in the display at the Wisconsin. Don't know when I'll be downtown next to go see.

Navigators may see the track of the ship move sixteen foot before she settles back into a straight line track. I'm just guessing and have never read anything of the sort. Just thinking recoil sets the ship into motion that takes a moment to stabilize. It can't be a sudden jerk as you see film of sailors standing when the guns go off. Can't recall any of them swaying and for sure not falling down. BB's don't have huge keels on them like sailing ship.

[M-Tecs]

Do Battleships move sideways when they fire? Good info here.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080509065249/http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.htm

Never seen one fire but I was on the Big Mo in 2000. Very impressive boat and what a feeling of history!!!! Dad was on a troop transport starting in late 1944 but his brother was on the Arizona until Dec. 5th 1941 and his other brother was on the Utah when it got hit. Both survived and spent the next four years in the South Pacific. Dad didn't join until late 44.

[popper]

Missouri that was in Bremerton Wa. Yup. I started out as the skipper's TT on the bridge. When the 8" goes off, you get a shake and shudder. She'll roll & pitch but not move sideways. Note they always fire when underway, not standing still. Yes the 5/38's make a bang but it's not bad. I worked on the Harpoon development with 4 other guys at TI in 69. Fun project. Flew on an A26 against shrimpers in the gulf for targets. Probably scared the poop out of those guys, seeing a WWII attack bomber making strafing runs on them. First US ship to ship missile - the Excelot (french) sunk a Israeli destroyer and we had no equal. Now it is pretty much just on Jap & Korean frigates.

[AggieEE]

Seeing that picture of the Mo going into Tokyo Bay reminded me that one of my cousins was on a tanker and they drew more water than the Mo so they were the first ship in. Needless to say the pucker factor was high.

[DRNurse1]

Great Thread. Did the overnight on the USS New Jersey with my son.

I am pleased the Big Mo never lost a hand, but found it remarkable the that the New Jersey did: HM from USS NJ was one of the 241 'Marines' in the barracks bombing. I remember that because it lead to my first report: I was one of a few long arm qualified PO's to take Quarter Deck Watch after that event and I managed to miss GQ after I was relieved from that 2 week duty...slept right through the alarm. I can identify with BWB's sleep patterns.

[kens]

And yes, I too have read that when a full broadside is fired 90 degrees the ship does move sideways in the water. I don't think 16', more like 4' or 5'. I think this is in the display at the Wisconsin. Don't know when I'll be downtown next to go see.


I don't believe the ship reacts to the recoil at all. but, the big guns do have a recoil buffer, they appear to be about a 20 foot hydraulic sliding damper. Scroll up to my post there is a hotlink to an article I did many years ago. The muzzle blast does broil the water though.

[Powder Burn]

Found this on line a few years ago. For all Big MO fans. This looks like fun.92917

[GabbyM]

Friend I used to eat lunch with at work. Was gunners mate on a destroyer taking the USS New Jersey through an island slot for “target practice”. New Jersey was brand new fresh out of California just days into her first job. Suddenly from atop a cliff a camouflaged heretofore unknown Japanese eight inch shore battery took a shot at New Jersey. Hit the ship dead on top of number one turret. Blasting off the chief gunners optical sight. Ernie was manning one of the forward 5 x 38’s. They looked back at the bridge. Saw the Captain look up at the cliff then immediately order the ship to close in tight to the shore line. Before the Japs could reload they’d sailed close enough to the cliff there 8” gun could not depress far enough to get a shot. US destroyer loaded AP rounds and started cutting away at the cliff. Ernie told me how long it took but that was thirty some years ago. Something like five minutes of rapid fire. Eventually they’d blasted away enough underlying cliff that eight inch battery slid off into the water. New Jersey had retreated out of range of the shore battery. Yielding bragging rights to the destroyer crew. No American casualties on either ship. Those turrets are the heaviest armored place of the ship. Best place to take a shot but the big guns had only fire control for aiming after losing there optical sights.

[BLASTER62]

Sorry, Bill, but I have to call BS on the story. Sixty plus thousand tons is a lot of inertia. The main problem with those rifles was the muzzle blast, Shame on you if you were abreast of the 16/50's when they went off. I heard it likened to being run into by a truck, with a couple mattresses in front. On the other hand, they said the muzzle blast from the 5/38's was like getting hit with a plank!

Rodger that on the 5" 38's walking forward on the hangar deck ( door open ) 5" went off picked cordite out of my teeth ear's rang 3 hours.

[Menner]

OK here we go I Served on the USS IOWA BB61 as a Fire Controlman for the Main Battery 16" Guns and Have pulled the trigger for a Broad side and I can tell you that when 9, 16" guns and 6, 5" guns go off the ship does react mostly through breaking stuff on board we had an electrical panel fall off a bulkhead and we have had lights fall out of the overhead and water pipes break during Broadsides HT's and Electrician's hated them as far as the ship moving sideways it does not happen she is 65,000 tons 876 feet long with a 38 ft draft it would be like trying to push a wall of water 38'x900' the water on the Action side is being pulled away from the ship as a result of 6000lbs (yes that is pounds) of powder going off and creating turbulence beside the ship while I was onboard we did stress tests of different firing angles for each of the turrets max to min elevations and Trained as far down the sides of the ship as we could safely fire to try and see were the stress of firing the guns had the most effect.
Just a note when you fire all three guns in a 16" turret they don't go off all at once they are staggered left right center
I have been in the gun room during shoots and out on the deck (well away from the guns) during shoots but most of the time I was in the plotting room operating the MK8 gun order computer which is either on the 3rd deck(3 decks below the main deck) or the 5th deck depending which plotting room you were in and we could absolutely feel the guns go off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOnwwWJk7U0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armament_of_the_Iowa-class_battleship

[Frank46]

5"54's on our carrier would really slam you when they went off. Used to stand out on the fantail when they were towing the target barges and you'd hear this whoosh whoosh sound and see the projectile hit the target. Frank

[Ajax]

One of only 2 times i cried in uniform was at the arizona memorial. The amazing loss of life that happened there that day is staggering. There was a funeral i drove the small boat for, he was actually on the ship when it was hit and he survived and fought thru the end of the war. For the life of me i cannot remember his name but his face from the picture of the after math will haunt me till i die. There was just so much saddness and disbelief in his face. I have nothing but reverance for the men who faught that war, truly the greatest generation.
It made me proud to be a Navy man. I am gonna end this here as my allergies seem to be acting up and my eyes are watering.

Andy

[popper]

Amen Ajax. Powder Burn - can you send me that pic? Years ago (like early 50's) I visited some museum in Jeff City, they had a model of the Big Mo. Slightly remember somebody did a working RC model using 22LR for the main guns. That museum also had racks of springfields & other civil & WWI stuff. Suppose it was scraped years ago.

[Powder Burn]

Popper - I'll see what I can do. Sort of reminded me of my dad when he traveled to various reunions around the country. Seems they had working models of battleships. Dad went to a reunion down at (your not going to believe this) Bill and Hillarys estate while he was still Gov. I have photos of USS Arkansas reunion around here somewhere. Bill always enjoyed a party.

[Powder Burn]

Here's an interesting photo of what's left of a Kamikaze that hit Big MO.93084

[GabbyM]

oh dude that is way messed up.
I have to wonder if that's real.

[GabbyM]

The USS Wisconsin shot down over fifty Jap planes in a single day.
Can't recall the exact number but it's a fact you can look up.
Radar guided 5" 38's with PF fuses. Twenty of them at that then the 40m Bofors after they got closer. With the 5x38's radar you are looking at miles out intercept. If the Germans would of had that over Berlin we'd of just parked the eight air force on the ground. We didn't win that war by accident or by having larger balls.

New Zealand and Australia were spared invasion by a very small group of men flying torpedo planes. Battle of Midway. They had the will to sacrifice themselves just to pull down the Jap fighter CAP over the Jap fleet. Allowing the Douglas dive bombers to fly over target. After you get your dive bombers over there target there isn't any stopping them back then. Movies that have been produced don't show this sacrifice. They make it look like an accident. It was no accident and no torpedo bomber crew had any expectation at all of returning from that mission alive. We were outgunned and out machined so bad there was no way on paper we could of won that battle. We went in any way and came out a victor.

Now in modified American history. Where hero worship is feared. Due to the way the Japanese and Germans revered hero worship.
I'll have to concede that path lead to destruction. But we still do have our heroes. So let us worship God and learn from the teachings of Jesus to live a life of peace. Lest not forget those who gave all in the name of justice. We don't' have to give them an idol in our sanctuary or lust to die like they did. They for sure didn't grow up thinking like that. Just good old boys who knew right from wrong. They understood this war had to be won. If they couldn't do it then who would.

[DW475]

Great pictures, thanks for sharing.

[Bad Water Bill]

In the late 40s I was given a book by a sailor that flew tail gunner off of one of those carriers and I have never forgotten the courage pilots and crews had.

If you can find any information on "TORPEDO SQUADRON 8" you should have an interesting read.

[**oneshot**]

My Stepsons went this past summer to a scout camp out on the USS New Jersey. I had to miss it due to my wife's busted ankle. They were amazed at how big the ship was in person. Great bunch of people running the tours for the kids and having to answer all the questions that kids do. Heck even our leaders admitted that they felt like kids on the ship with their questions he he!
For us east coasters, the USS New Jersey is in Camden, NJ and is open for tours, you have to book way in advance for the overnighters though.

[abunaitoo]

I've been on it a few times.
It looks big, but as I was walking around, it felt really small.
Also been on/in the "Bowfin", WWII sub. That was really small.