A few casting and size/lubing questions

[ky-moonshiner]

Hello all I spent the last couple nights casting some 247gn NOE. I have a 4 bullet mold that does 4 different bullets, two flat nose, and two hollow point with one each with gas check and one each without.

I'm developing a load so I weighed my bullets after having sizing an lubing with a lyman lubersizer and added gas checks. For this load I decided to only use the flat nose with gas check. What I found was four distinct groups of weights, 234-136 grain, 240-241.8 grain, 242-243 grain, and 244-246 grain. I loaded up my 240-241.8 grain the vast majority of which were 241.6-141.8.

Having realized that a .30 cal cleaning patch weighed 10 grains I see it's not a huge discrepancy at leafs for shooting 300 blackout in an AR15 SBR. I do have a bolt gun in the works though.

How far off can my weight be before I should think about remelting the bullet?

Also, when casting the bullets seem to fill out the mold completely but the lube bands are round not sharp like most, they become sharp looking after sized is this normal for the mold? I've been casting at 750deg, with the mold at 350.

After lubing it seems like the lube is everywhere on the bullet, initially just the bands, but also some on the base, and eventually the stickiness with also seem to be all over the shank of the projectile. Having seems one pictures of very clean looking lubed pistol bullets with sharp edges right out of the mold, and the only evidence of lube being in the band I thought maybe I'm doing something wrong.

The bullets take on a dark grey oxidized color after lubing is that normal or should they remain shiny?

How soon after casting should I be able to lube/size? is doing it all in one night too fast?

I've read on here about age hardening should I wait for this or will it happen naturally even after sizing/lubing. Keeping in mind I've already shot some of these with satisfactory plinking results, I am going to be working on making a cast load as accurate as possible for longer ranges than 100 yards.

What should I be looking for as far as bore leading? there hasn't been anything noticeable on the lands and groves, I'm shooting through a stainless barrel at subsonic speeds sized to .308 but I also have a .309 I may try.

My hollow points... this run didn't come out as good as my first runs, there is some extra lead around the tip of the hollow point like there was some extra space where the pin goes in the mold, the material gets pushed out of existence by the top punch but should it be cause for concern and how do I make it go away?

I cleaned the molds in hot soapy boiling water, and used the NOE sprue plate lube, and smoked a couple cavities that were sticking and they fall out fine now. I'm debating cleaning them again to see what happens.
The reason for that is I've had sprues giving me issues they are becoming harder to drop after cutting, especially if the sprue puddle isn't large, I have to hit the handles pretty hard to make them drop and in some cases even use a punch to push them out.

I'll take some pictures next time I encounter the issues I understand they would probably help a bit more. I'm thinking about even getting a bottom pour to see if my ladle use has something to do with it, I get a lot of wrinkles, those get remelted if it's too bad most of it seems to come int he beginning when i'm getting the temps up.

The alloy is 50/50 lead and Lyman #2. When I ran out of #2 I started running 1-2% Tin with lead and a teaspoon of lead shot to add trace amounts of arsenic. Is it possible for the Tin and lead to separate? Sometimes the surface gets a gold tint which I assume is the tin I stir it back up, if I run too hot the surface gets purplish which I read is lead oxidizing due to being too hot.

[Tatume]

In my opinion, you jumped right in with both feet! Learning to cast will be much simpler with a one or two cavity mold with only one bullet style.

Your rounded edges sounds to me like the mold is running cool. You can get the mold hotter through a combination of higher pot temperature and quicker opening of the mold. You should strive for a slightly frosted appearance. When you achieve it, I think your edges will be sharp.

It sounds like your lube is very soft, and is being redistributed. Don't worry about it.

Also, don't worry about the 10 grain weight variation. Shoot them. If they shoot well, who cares about the weights?

Take care, Tom

[kens]

The boolit weight difference kinda depends if you want plinkers, hunting, or target boolits.
I never remelt due to weight difference. I only segregate and load, boolits into weight classes, such as you have done.
For any given batch of reloads, consistency counts more than specific weight in grains. My vote is to weight your boolits, and load them in groups of similar weights. The best ones looking to be the most accurate, and rest can be plinkers.

[ky-moonshiner]

Thanks fellas, how hot is too hot? I thought 750 was running a bit hot. The mold temp was pretty up there and the pins were hot enough for me to notice, then again I'm casting with no gloves. I'll try and run the temp up to 800 and the mold to 400. I may be letting it cool too long.

[mold maker]

Keeping a preheated mold hot requires a fast pace. No time to inspect the boolits while casting. Brass and aluminum molds demand even faster pace as they give up heat faster.

[kens]

Ky moonshiner?
What part of ky.?
I in Louisville right now, balmy weather!!!!

[ky-moonshiner]

Fort Campbell currently

[sljacob]

Keep your mold hot.
as mold maker stated use a fast steady cadence and adjust mold temp by casting speed, IMO your alloy is too hot, I run mine in the 675 to 700 degrees. The hotter the melt is the more oxidation you will get on top of your alloy.
When casting hollow points keeping the pins hot is vital, try to get the mold closed as quickly as possible after dropping the boolits out will help.
Leaving a large enough sprue puddle too keep the sprue plate hot will help with cutting and dropping the sprue.
A cheap hot plate helps a lot and worth the dollars, I use one to preheat my mold and if I need to set the mold down I put it on the hot plate to keep it close to operating temp.

hope this helps

[ky-moonshiner]

Are you sure because everyone else seemed to indicate the melt wasn't hot enough nor was the mold. The reason for the 750 is to keep the temp up, when I cast at a decent pace taking the ladle in and out of the melt has me ending up with slushy solid chunks and a horrible time getting the melt out of the laddle clean. I figure if its 750 before I start casting with a thermometer in, when I start taking the ladle in and out of the melt and through sprues back in the melt drops to around 700 or so and still requires some stirring with the paddle to keep the top of the melt molten.

I'll try and find a way to keep the thermometer int he melt; I'm using a hot plate, and also have a digital thermometer inside the mold body and keep it at 350-400.

[Tatume]

As I said,

Your rounded edges sounds to me like the mold is running cool. You can get the mold hotter through a combination of higher pot temperature and quicker opening of the mold. You should strive for a slightly frosted appearance. When you achieve it, I think your edges will be sharp.

[ky-moonshiner]

I did another run, melt at 650, mold at 450-460. Put the HP plugs in the melt to get them hot before casting, I couldn't cats fast enough keep up with the mold temp (unless I run it nearer 500). I had to put the mold back on my hotplate after two casts because the temp would drop to 430-440 by then. The boolits turned out a bit cleaner, some still had wrinkles, the rounded edges are the design of the bands in the mold, I'm still having issues with the HP making extra metal, this is due to improper set screw torque, which was also difficult to keep up with due to heating/cooling of the mold and parts, it seemed like every time I closed the mold i'd have to readjust the set screws to allow me to hold the pins in place. Pictures:Last pic is of my previous cast (Melt was 700, Mold was 350) lubed with lyman lube/sizer press at .308, lyman lube used and heated slightly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4111_zpsbb1d6106.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4111_zpsbb1d6106.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4114_zpsd9cacbbd.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4114_zpsd9cacbbd.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4115_zps86de63e9.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4115_zps86de63e9.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4119_zpsaeabda93.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4119_zpsaeabda93.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4120_zpsf80acb0a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4120_zpsf80acb0a.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4117_zps1c17dddd.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4117_zps1c17dddd.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4125_zps96868e36.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4125_zps96868e36.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4128_zpsf7922f2a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4128_zpsf7922f2a.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4123_zpsc81beea9.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Slayer-LongShot/media/IMG_4123_zpsc81beea9.jpg.html)


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[ky-moonshiner]

Weighed a couple at 240 grain +/- .2

[44man]

You need more heat in the pot for those long boolits. I cast everything at 750* except pure where I go to 800.
I use a little oven on the hot plate and pre heat to 500*, first boolits are perfect. It is not a good idea to put the mold right on the coils. Put a steel plate on the coils to put the mold on.
Your sprue plate is not going to get hot enough so a little enclosed oven is best with a small BBQ thermometer in the top. Put the mold in the oven when you turn the pot on and let it heat. If the plate is still too cold, play a propane torch around on it. If too hot you just wait a little longer before cutting but it will even out.
It also looks like you have a burr on the edge of the plate. Take it off and round the outer edges and polish them.

[kens]

a oil film on the mold will cause wrinkles also.
you are not running too hot until you get frosted boolits. when that happens you just back off the heat a little
and a little bit of tin in the alloy helps a great deal towards good looking boolits

[Certaindeaf]

It seems you are striking the plate too late.. and don't strike it.. use your/a gloved hand..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4119_zpsaeabda93.jpg

Also, what's up with those nose noodles? wow

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Slayer-LongShot/IMG_4120_zpsf80acb0a.jpg

[Wayne Smith]

You also have a lot of oxide on your melt. This is an occupational hazard when using a ladle because of all the exposure to oxygen involved. Melt a couple drops of wax on your melt and this will return the oxides back to the melt. Most of this is tin oxide because it is the quickest to react to oxygen. This reduces the tin in your mold and may account for some of the failure to fill the mold completely.

[ky-moonshiner]

Will any wax do? I have some candles

[dondiego]

Candle wax will work. Throw a match in with the wax (small amount) and stir in well. Skim. I stir with a pine wood stick and scrape the sides of the pot with it too.

[MtGun44]

Don't measure boolits with a caliper, not accurate enough no matter how many
digits are on the display. You need a .0001" reading micrometer.

Bill

[blikseme300]

Looks like you are cutting the sprue too late and this has the secondary effect that the mold gets too cold. I use a glove to twist open the sprue almost immediately after the sprue loses it's shiny appearance and after a count of 3 opening the mold and dropping the boolits.

You are very close to perfect boolits so hang in there.

[ky-moonshiner]

Again I appreciate the input, I realize my mistakes with heat, the mold was a bit too cool, and the melt maybe a bit too hot and my rytheme non-existant which affected the tmeperature of both possibly oxidizeing my tin out of the equation. It's been a while since I've visited but not many boolits are made during deployments; I'm getting ready to go home and get back in gear.

You mentioned oil or other contaminants, I highly doubt the initial degreasing boil, and 3-4 runs I did have seasoned the mold much at all. Does the downtime between casting sessions affect the mold?, and is it possible to clean the mold too much or too often? I felt it would be safe to go ahead and boil/degrease my molds when I get back may do the same with my pot to get rid of any residual dross build up off the pot walls. I read that time should have had some significant impact on the hardness of the bullets previously cast I may remelt them for fun so I have uniform bullets when I start reloading in mass; or would you think that unnecessary?

[pjames32]

Welcome back! Thanks for your service.
I just noticed this thread and will add my $0.02. I agree with the comments about the mold being too cool. As long as your bullets are, you will need to get the mold temp a lot higher to fill out without wrinkles. I've never been able to run fast enough with a 4 gang mold and a dipper. I can do a 1 or 2, but not a 4. You might consider a bottom pour pot.
I live in a dry climate so I don't Oil my mold cavities. I do spray my molds with brakleen before each casting session.
Keep casting! It will get easier :)

[Pilgrim]

I've used a leather mallet to open my moulds for forever (30 + years since I got back into casting). I don't wear gloves but do wear glasses and pants, short sleeve shirts are OK, but NEVER shorts! I cast near to an open door in my shop for ventilation. I do not use a 4 cavity mould as they can be heavy (if steel) and touchy to use ( for me anyway) to get excellent boolits. However, I use two cavity moulds simultaneously. I fill one & set it down under the pot so it doesn't cool off too much, then cut the sprue on the other and drop the boolits, and repeat. IMO using a 4 cavity mould with 4 different boolits is going to be difficult, especially for a beginner. All of the moulds I regularly use are steel. Nothing wrong with aluminum or brass, I just prefer steel. I would recommend you get a LEE mould that casts a boolit near what you want and get experience as well as boolits you can shoot. Then you can go back to your 4 cavity. Just don't expect serious quantities of boolits from a 4 cavity mould with 4 different boolits. IMO....Pilgrim