Interesting contrast.

[Bodydoc447]

I got two whitetail deer this season, three weeks apart. The first was a nice little buck shot high in the neck with my trusty .45-70 guide gun (405 grain cast FN over 40 grains of H4895). Dropped in his tracks at 90 yards and never twitched. The second was a whitetail doe standing about 2 feet from where the first one was shot three weeks before. In this case, the same high neck shot, this time with a .35 Whelen using Hornady Superformance factory 200 SP (sorry, guys). She also dropped in her tracks, kicked twice and was still. The interesting, at least to me, comparison is that while both entrance wounds were nearly identical the exits were dramatically different. The .45-70 exit was only slightly larger than the entrance while the entire offside of the neck from the .35 Whelen was torn up. Both wound paths included vertebral bones. I think I probably lost a pound or more of meat off of the doe's neck as a consequence. The jacketed round must have truly "blown up" the bone to cause such a disruptive exit. My only excuse for using factory ammo is that it is what I had sighted in with and did not yet have any cast bullet loads worked up. That will change this Spring. No reason at all not to use cast in either rifle. Both dropped dead right there and less meat was wasted with the .45-70. Was a nice deer season and we have a freezer full of sausage, cube steaks and chops.

Doc

[John Allen]

doc, good for you. There is nothing like a large flat bullet on deer.

[Larry Gibson]

I doubt the 200 gr jacketed bullet "blew up".. There is a lot of difference between probably 1400 - 1500 fps impact, even with a larger FP, and a 200 gr SP at probably 2800 fps. One has no hydrostatic shock, the other has a lot of it. "Contrast" for sure. Result was 2 dead deer and good thing both were neck shots, especially the second, eh?

Larry Gibson

[Bodydoc447]

I don't think the 200 grain SP blew up either. I think it badly fragmented the cervical bone and that those fragments acting as secondary projectiles in addition to the hydrostatic shock caused the large exit wound.

Doc

[Larry Gibson]

That's it Doc, you're probably right. Whelen's a great cartridge though, especially with cast and slowed down to 2100-2200 fps for deer.
If you want to send it to me for a few years I could thoroughly test it out for ya[smilie=l:

Larry Gibson

[Bodydoc447]

Larry,
I got one of Al Nelson's RCBS inspired moulds and I want to try it out along with MiHec's hunting boolit. I will send it to you just as soon as I get tired of it. How's that sound?

Doc

[TXGunNut]

Interesting indeed. Good luck on your adventures with the Whelen and CB's. J-words are for folks who don't know how to cast.

[white eagle]

I thought the very same about the velocity
funny how that works the velocity that is
the whelen did the most damage and the 45-70 had the most weight

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,
I got one of Al Nelson's RCBS inspired moulds and I want to try it out along with MiHec's hunting boolit. I will send it to you just as soon as I get tired of it. How's that sound?

DocSounds like a plan......are you tired yet! Okay, I get the picture......next week maybe..........:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[35 shooter]

Shot a small buck last year with my whelen and a 200 gr. sp hornady handload at about 60 yds. facing me. Bullet went through the neck missing the bone about 1/2 inch to the side and blew a 2" hole out the back plus made a split in the neck muscle about 3" above and below exit hole. Needless to say he dropped where he was after flipping over backwards. There wasn't much bloodshot damage as much as just a bunch of meat missing from that side of the neck. Anyway that was one of the main reasons i switched to cast boolits over the summer.

[bart55]

Years ago (1969) I shot a large doe with a 444 marlin ,the long barreled one with the straight stock .It was about fifty yards away factory rem 240 gr jsp it went in behind the shoulder but came out the other side with a hole I could put my gloved hand into and not touch anything . That was one of the last jacketed bullets I ever used on deer .at the time I just wanted to see what all the hype was on the 444. I use it now but its with cast . and no huge exits

[ammohead]

Deer season before last my girlfriend hunted with a Browning blr in 257 Roberts. I had loaded her a 117 gr sierra gameking at a leisurely 2500 fps or so. She hit a mule deer doe at about 80 yards high in the shoulder. The doe gave little sign of a hit and we assumed she missed. The doe turned around and I hit her through the ribcage with a 284 win and 140 gr tsx. Skinning and quartering showed a 1.5" hole in the scapula and a bunch of jellified meat behind it but no hole through the rib cage and no damage to the offside and a minimum of damage to the entrance side backstrap. No exit hole at all. It was if the bullet penetrated the scapula and then dissappeared. I have her loaded with partitions now as she is not a boolithead yet.

[taco650]

That's it Doc, you're probably right. Whelen's a great cartridge though, especially with cast and slowed down to 2100-2200 fps for deer.
If you want to send it to me for a few years I could thoroughly test it out for ya[smilie=l:

Larry Gibson

Don't you already have 35 Whelen????

[Digital Dan]

Ah, the imponderables of terminal ballistics....:grin:

Rather think the bullet didn't blow up either, but in the absence of fact will withhold adjudication.

Been dabbling with hog shooting with .22 RF guns for too long and have come to some rather curious conclusions that I'd not try to sell to anyone. To avoid the necessity of climbing trees they are shot at close range, CNS aim points only. The best I've found are CB Shorts. The bullets do not significantly deform and thus penetrate better than LR subs or short HVHP. I recover the latter from broadside neck shots, but the CBs are pass thrus, never recovered. The LR subs are usually found under the offside hide. Frontal shots thru the brain give the same results: CBs are found deep in the neck muscle behind the skull, the rest sometimes stopping in the skull or in the neck immediately behind that structure....mangled lead. Low velocity isn't always a bad thing, but it raises the bar for precision placement. I suppose elephant hunters already figured that out a long, long time ago.