My Casting Project for the Snub Nose .38 Special

[fishboy]

Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum and I am here, well, because I am considering pouring some boolits for my .38 snubby.

A little background on me, I am a firearm enthusiast and love just about everything there is about the outdoors. I have been hand loading for about a year now on my Dillon RL550B (approximately 5000 rounds in 9mm and .40) and I love it. I am a Glock guy and I have tailored my reloads to shoot extremely well for me in them. I also have been pouring my own bass fishing jigs for about 4 years. So, I have most of the goodies needed to cast boolits. :grin:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/gkiester/A4ED1D0F-79BA-4395-B404-232B8C3E4965-6823-00000483113D3A00_zps35d9953f.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/gkiester/media/A4ED1D0F-79BA-4395-B404-232B8C3E4965-6823-00000483113D3A00_zps35d9953f.jpg.html)

A few weeks back, I bought a Ruger LCR .38 SPL +P snubby from a friend at a price I couldn't pass up. He bought it for his wife and she couldn't shoot it well and was frustrated with it after 50 rounds at the range. So, I bought it right there on the spot. On my way home from the range with them, I bought a couple different flavors of .38 special ammo. Hornady 110gr. FTX critical defense +P, PMC Bronze 132gr. FMJ RN, and Ultramax 158gr. Cowboy Action RNFP.

Like a few other handgun calibers I shoot, I am drawn towards reloading for my new LCR. Today, I got the crono out and took some measurements of the factory ammo I purchased. I have found it hard to find velocity data for snub nose revolvers. So, below is some of the data I have collected with my CED-M2.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/gkiester/5A6BDCFC-3D58-4B15-A12D-14630019C4E0_zpsfxnqeupw.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/gkiester/media/5A6BDCFC-3D58-4B15-A12D-14630019C4E0_zpsfxnqeupw.jpg.html)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/gkiester/38SPLCronofactoryloads_zpsc5fa88f8.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/gkiester/media/38SPLCronofactoryloads_zpsc5fa88f8.jpg.html)

After shooting through the crono, I shot a few targets at 7yds and I found the Ultramax Cowboy Action 158gr lead to be the most accurate and fun to shoot, except for the smoke and how dirty that ammo is). I also like the fact that these Ultramax use Starline brass. Here is the Ultramax bullet that I pulled out of a new, live round.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/gkiester/56F9A33B-CDD7-4079-A028-DA910B724655_zpsdfmvdpns.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/gkiester/media/56F9A33B-CDD7-4079-A028-DA910B724655_zpsdfmvdpns.jpg.html)

I'd like to start casting a good target load boolit. I am thinking about trying to closely mimic the Ultramax cartridge but with cleaner powder (unless the smoke from the cartridge was the bullet lube?). I currently have TiteGroup, Power Pistol, AutoComp and Unique in my powder arsenal. I was reading that these like target loads like powders like Clays and Bullseye. As for the mold, since velocities are far below the 1400fps mark, I am looking a few different Lyman plain base products.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/gkiester/LymanMold-358665_zps76e6c1a2.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/gkiester/media/LymanMold-358665_zps76e6c1a2.jpg.html)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/gkiester/LymanMold-358477_zps4a26232f.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/gkiester/media/LymanMold-358477_zps4a26232f.jpg.html)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/gkiester/LymanMold-358091_zps91b69065.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/gkiester/media/LymanMold-358091_zps91b69065.jpg.html)

Does anyone have any loading experience with any of these molds? Do you have other mold suggestions? I plan to the shoot he heck out of this little Ruger. It is a lot of fun.

I noticed the Ultramax 158gr. was the easiest bullet to pull out of the three. There doesn't seem to be much of a roll crimp holding the bullet in place. There is a cannelure in the bullet however, maybe this is because of the lower powder charge and less recoil it's not needed?

Anyways, I just wanted to say "Hi," share some of my data I collected today and let you guys know what I am working on for my first cast boolit project.

See you guys around,
Greg

[jmort]

For around $20.00 the Lee 158 RNFP is a good place to start. If you don't like it you can sell it immediately/fast and be out little to nothing. Chances are you will like it. I like Unique, around 5 grains.

[RickinTN]

I second the Lee RNFP. I have had good success with Clays in my 38 snubbies with several 158 gr bullets. Shoots well and burns clean.
Good Luck,
Rick

[vernb]

I bought my wife a model 85 Taurus snubbie and I cast Lee 148 wc over 2.5 grns. Of bullseye. I have no interest in trying anything else. This shoots at point of aim and is very accurate. I think It's my favorite gun, pink grips and all

[runfiverun]

that boolit you show is from a magma engineering mold it does shoot pretty well.
I'd about bet that they use a fast powder and you were getting smoke from the blow-bye.
you could duplicate what you were getting with 4 grs of win-231 and that same boolit.
but I'd recommend a few changes such as a better lube, sizing to 358, and using a softer alloy.
you really don't need too much of a crimp for that load and it should be super easy to handle in that revolver.

[Outpost75]

For a snubby I would look long and hard at a double-end wadcutter such as Saeco #348, in a full charge, standard pressure, but not +P loads, such as 3.5 grains of Bullseye, 4.2 grs. of W231 or 4.5 grs. of WST.

Go to Grant Cunningham's blog and read the Ed Harris article on the "full charge wadcutter" which is all that you need to know.

This ground has been plowed so many times before that you have become confused..

K.I.S.S. principle. This is not rocket science.l!

[fishboy]

Thanks guys! You guys respond very quick. It is greatly appreciated.

You are absolutely right Outpost... so much info on here and all over the internet about this stuff. I have been reading some conflicting articles/threads about the information I am in search of. I hate trying to choose which one is correct or that I think is correct. I haven't heard of Grant Cunningham's blog. I will check that article out.

Runfiverun, the smoke was black and there was quite a bit of it when shooting the Ultramax's. The cases were covered inside and out with soot as well as the revolver.

Thanks again,
Greg

[Rainier]

For what it's worth... I use a lot of the Lee TL 158 SWC and find their 6 cavity mould really throws out a lot of boolits in a short period of time once you get a cadence down. I do find you need to cool the mold with a damp towel (never tried a sponge) if you run a fast pace but the SWC works great in snubbies, single action Vaqueros, lever mod 92 Puma or the GP100. My go to boolit with either Bullseye or Win231. I've tried the RNFP and have no complaints, I just like the SWC.

[Dale53]

Fishboy;
I second that suggestion to see Ed Harris' article on the full charge wadcutter:

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/75f11fe4e235da7c69cabf94daa7dbd9-932.html

It is an absolute classic on snub gun ammunition.

FWIW
Dale53

[Westwindmike]

Fishboy,
Nothing to add about the boolits, but sure do like the looks of your jigs that you make. I bet the Largemouth around here would eat them up! Good work!

[TCFAN]

It is harder to try to find a load combination that does not work in the 38 special than one that does.For my use I use the Lee RNFP 158 gr boolit with 3.5 grs. of Bullseye.This is a good all around plinking and target /small game load that shoot very well in every 38/357 firearm that I have tried it in.That includes the Marlin 94C 357.I have never seen the so called carbon ring using this load in several different 357 over the last several years...........Terry

[Jazzcat]

The Lee .358 105 SWC is a great boolit for the LCR. 3 - 3.5 gr of Bullseye makes for a very comfortable shooting experience and casting the 105 is easy and economical (I size it to .357 and use it for 9mm and .380 also). I tumble lube and have used Alox alone or JPW alone, 50/50 Alox/JPW and 50/50 Alox/JPW thinned slightly with a few drops of mineral spirits. All worked well.

My wife uses the LCR for concealed carry and is loaded with Hornady Critical Defense. When she first got the gun I loaded 100 rounds of the 105 swc with a light load of BE. She was able to shoot all 100 rounds in one session without discomfort. I then loaded 5 rounds of the ammo she would carry. She shot those well but commented she would not like to shoot 100 of those. I pointed out if she ever had to shoot those it would only be 5 rounds. Her other gun is a Ruger Security Six in .357 magnum and she shoots that like a champ. Keeps me on the straight and narrow! LOL!

[zomby woof]

Don't pass up the LEE 358-150. The round nose makes speed loading real easy. I use mine with Red Dot.

['74 sharps]

I use the Lyman 4 cavity #358665 cast very soft and tumble lubed in my 38's & 357's with Trail Boss powder and have had fine results.

[winelover]

Stick with boolets that are at or near 158 grains. Snubbies sights are regulated, for point of aim, with this bullet weight. I personally use a 158 SWC or a 160 RN for mine. Have no use for WC's and wouldn't own one. These are not the target guns that WC's are designed for. If you have a 357, the 158 SWC would be more versatile, IMO. If a lever action is in the mix, a RNFP would be a consideration.

Unique is my powder of choice and I load to brisk levels. My wife and I practice with loadings that nearly duplicate defensive ammo. Recoil is over rated and mostly in your mind. Mrs. Winelover has no problems with a S&W Airweight and +P loads. BTW, I can encircle her wrist, with my thumb and forefinger!

Winelover

[dondiego]

Fishboy - You mentioned a cannelure on the Ultramax bullet. That is not a cannelure, that is a crimp groove.

[fa38]

One of the club members was shooting his Smith snubbie with 125 grainers and they were low and either left or right of point of aim. He called Smith and they said what winelover said. They are regulated for 158 grain bullets. He purchased a box and they went to point of aim at 10 yards.

[mdi]

FWIW, my "house gun" is a 2" .38. I load it with 150 gr. (with my alloy and mold) DEWC over a stiff load of W231. Good accuracy out to 20 yds., easy shooting (recoil/blast), and with a large flat front/nose good tissue disruption with little over penetration. I believe the mold is a Lyman, but I have 2 WC molds that I use a lot. Haven't compared POI with 158 grainers, but a 6 o'clock hold will put 'em all in 2 1/2" in the black at 10-12 yds...

[gray wolf]

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/75f11fe4e235da7c69cabf94daa7dbd9-932.html

Thank you for the link, I was able to add to my ever growing list of things I didn't know, but now have better insight.
I like some of his many articles.

Sam

[fishboy]

Fishboy - You mentioned a cannelure on the Ultramax bullet. That is not a cannelure, that is a crimp groove.

Ah, I gotcha. Thanks

I don't have much issues with the recoil of this little revolver. With that being said, and the talk of using a full charged wadcutter, I bet TiteGroup would be a good powder for this 158gr boolit. The Lyman Handloading Manual actually says 3.1gr of TiteGroup behind their #358091 150gr WC is their most accurate powder tested. That is being shot out of a 4" barrel revolver with a 1-18 3/4" twist, however.

Greg

[Echo]

One can hardly go wrong with the Lyman -477 boolit. One of the best 38 SWC's ever. But the Lee 105 makes a lot of sense too - who cares if it shoots low? And only uses 2/3 as much Pb. At SD ranges, mox nix. Cast, tumble loob, load, shoot, repeat...
But, after reading the Ed Harris article (Dang, I'm Smart! Been recommending full-charge WC's for decades...), FCWC's make a ton of sense. H&G 50, Lyman -495, or -091, or ANY of the like would be great, and fairly well shoot to POA.

[jmort]

This is the best article I have seen on wadcutters

Wicked Wadcutters: Sep 24, 2010 - This is an article from Handguns magazine about the wadcutter as a defensive load.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/ammunition_hg_wickedwadcutters_200901/

[fishboy]

I tumble lube and have used Alox alone or JPW alone, 50/50 Alox/JPW and 50/50 Alox/JPW thinned slightly with a few drops of mineral spirits. All worked well.

It seems the more I read about lubing these cast boolits, more people are tumble lubing rather than waxing in a pan. Tumble lubing seems too simple to not go that route.

Greg

[rintinglen]

Pan lubing is the most time consuming method, Tumble lubing the least. But there is a draw back in that Tumble Lubing is more likely to lead up the barrel, if done wrong. You should be able to clearly see the lube on the boolits. Many of the pictures I have seen are too thinly coated to suit my taste and I would expect them to lead. But tumble lubing done right will easily handle your velocities. For high volume shooting, it is the quickest way to get good results. In the Ed Harris article, IIRC, he shows a pile of wadcutters done right. You can clearly see the lube in the picture I am thinking of.

Going back to your original choices, my preference is the 358-477. You can't go wrong with that boolit. I have shot very many of them over Bullseye, HP38, WW-231, red dot, AA no. 2, and Unique. Just about any of the faster shotgun/pistol powders will do right by you: your preference for Titegroup will likely be just fine, though I have only used that powder in 45 acp loads (where it is outstanding, by the by). It feeds in to the cylinder easier with speed-loaders than do the Wadcutter boolits, makes a nice clean hole in the target, and I have used it for many years. That said, one of the RNFP(round nose, flat point) designs like the 358-665 is also fine, and if you think a 38/357 carbine might be in your future, it might be the better choice. Some carbines are a little finicky about feeding SWC's.
I will say one thing, my preference for a beginner is an RCBS iron mold. They make the best mass-produced molds and their warranty service is second to none. They are in the mid-range price-wise, and nobody makes a mold that casts any better than theirs do. If they made 4 cavity (or higher) molds, Lyman and SAECO would be crying in their beer. I do not recommend Lee molds for beginners--they are harder to cast well with and the aluminum they are made from is easily damaged by the kind of rough handling a new guy may inadvertently give them.

For the more experienced guy, they are boon, especially their 6 cavity molds. You heat them up, and then cast as fast as you can until the pots empty and in 10-15 minutes you have 400-500 boolits. Now chances are some will be less than perfect, my reject rate is higher with aluminum molds in general and Lee's in particular, but if I toss 30-40 back in the pot, so what? With a 2 cavity or (heaven forfend) a single cavity, I'd have cast barely the number of boolits that I am throwing back, much less the pile of keepers.

[cummins05]

i have a mold that looks just like the one you posted a pic of (358091) but mine doesnt have a taper on the bottom but i will tell you its a great shooter i dont have my data infront of me but unique powder somewhere around 5.5 gns i believe but be sure to check your load book mine shoots great

[MtGun44]

All three are superb choices. Here is another option. Penetration in
ballistic gelatin would be about 10 inches.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52430&d=1307446037

477 and Lee 158 RF are both very accurate for me in any .38 Spl,
and the wadcutters in general usually shoot very well, too. Speed
loading with wadcutters is an exercise in futility, tho.

Bill

[fishboy]

Pan lubing is the most time consuming method, Tumble lubing the least. But there is a draw back in that Tumble Lubing is more likely to lead up the barrel, if done wrong. You should be able to clearly see the lube on the boolits. Many of the pictures I have seen are too thinly coated to suit my taste and I would expect them to lead. But tumble lubing done right will easily handle your velocities. For high volume shooting, it is the quickest way to get good results. In the Ed Harris article, IIRC, he shows a pile of wadcutters done right. You can clearly see the lube in the picture I am thinking of.

rintinglen,

This is the pic I believe you are referring too. This is just tumble lubed with what looks like ALOX?
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/gkiester/saeco0023348_146dewc_zpseb8d1925.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/gkiester/media/saeco0023348_146dewc_zpseb8d1925.jpg.html)

Thanks,
Greg

[Outpost75]

Yup! Mine look just like that. Even same bullet, Saeco #348. Great minds think in the same track 8-)

[mdi]

Tumble lubing is fast, easy, and just as messy as you are. 90% of new users use too much and get smoky loads that take forever to dry and gum up seating dies. I like to thin the alox a bit to speed drying and ease of application but I have come to prefer 45-45-10 as a tumble lube (actually I rarely tumble lube, I dip lube. I put a bit of lube in a small cup and grasp each bullet by the nose and dip the base, up to the crimp groove in the lube, and sit on a sheet of wax paper to dry). I'm a low volume caster/luber and only lube 100-150 bullets at a time. I like to cast a bunch of my favorite bullet and size/lube for the gun they will be used in; some get 45-45-10, some are pan lubed in my Speed Green, or Carnauba Red.

[Good Cheer]

Just a little more info. This is the old Lyman HBWC.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/snubbytests_zpsfebac538.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/snubbytests_zpsfebac538.jpg.html)

[flintsghost]

One of the things I liked in my model 60 when I used it as a backup on the road, was a 148 Hollow Base wadcutter loaded backwards. Up close it hits hard but most hollow based wadcutters are not cast but rather swaged, so if you want to try them, you might buy a box.

[Rustyleee]

Greg, those are nice looking jigs you make. Is there any reason to use brass instead of lead?

[Petrol & Powder]

I can't speak to the casting issue nearly as much as others on this forum but I will say that most fixed sighted 38 Special revolvers have sights regulated for 158gr projectiles. I use the RCBS SWC mold but the Lyman 358477 is very close.
A SWC profile is easier to use with speedloaders and they shoot well in a lot of guns (you might end up with more than one 38 Special revolver :wink: ).
That being said, a solid 148 WC would be my second choice.

[fishboy]

Greg, those are nice looking jigs you make. Is there any reason to use brass instead of lead?

Rusty,

Thanks! They are lead though. Maybe you read bass as brass?

Greg

[Forrest r]

The 358477 is an excellent bullet for the snub nosed 38spl along with all the other 150/158gr boolits people have recommended. It's truly hard to go wrong with any of those choices.

But I would highly recommend that you test any hd ammo in your pistol. Even if you've used/bought that type or brand of ammo before. Everyone can put out a bad batch of ammo or the ammo that simply might not work in your revolver. I saw the video & just shook my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMCi_b5cmAQ

He had to make the gelatin wrong, the 24+" of penetration & 2 milk jugs full of water might of been a clue???

Same guy, same ammo but in a 4"bbl, didn't penetrate as much as the snub nosed revolver???

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVOD X8qMO-Mo&ei=7OPLUtiUA67LsATHmoGQDg&usg=AFQjCNE5Rle8u4n9MW46EW55PsPH-qDbBQ&bvm=bv.58187178,d.cWc

A little more video of the 38spl snub nose, this guy makes some good video's.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Handguns_files/38SpecialSlowMotion.htm


forrest r

[fishboy]

A SWC profile is easier to use with speedloaders and they shoot well in a lot of guns (you might end up with more than one 38 Special revolver :wink: ).

That right there is a problem of mine. Lol. I could see that happening for sure.

Greg

[fishboy]

The 358477 is an excellent bullet for the snub nosed 38spl

Would you still roll crimp this bullet? Since there is no crimp groove in the bullet, I would think you could seat it past the top grease grove and just put a slight taper crimp on it.

I am going to slug my revolver barrel soon. I really like the looks of the RCBS lube sizer 2. I know it doesn't hurt any to have ALOX on the exposed boolit, but I am finicky about aesthetics and I want my hand loads to look good once completed. Especially, if there is a lot more boolit exposed.

There are so any options when it comes to boolit casting and reloading. I just trying not to spend a ton of money on things that I don't need in the end. It's part of the game though, I understand.

Greg

[Forrest r]

Yes, you would still roll crimp that bullet in the upper groove. The upper groove can be used for grease or for roll crimping.

I've used this boolit before in the 38spl's, 357's, 9mm's & 38supers. It's just a well designed bullet that can be used in allot of different calibers.

The other thing I liked about this boolit was that I used the same load (powder/primer) with the lyman 358495 (no bb like the wc you posted). I'd only grease the bottom 2 grooves of the 358495 wc & crimp that bullet in the top lube groove just below the actual crimp groove. Both boolits had the same velocity, same poa, same excellent accuracy. The wc just had a bigger meplat then the swc.

It might not hurt to ask & see if someone would be willing to send you some samples of the different boolits your interested in. If I had any of those molds I'd send you some, everything I have for a 38spl is either a custom mold or a couple of old lyman sc hp molds.

I hate to think of all the different molds I've had/tried over the years for the 38spl, along with swaging equipment for a .357 bullet. I thinned them out 2 years ago & have slowly been replacing them.

Good luck on whatever you try, there's always allot of help on this website with very knowledgeable people more than willing answer questions & talk about their experiences.

forrest r

[HATCH]

The boolit you are buying is a 125 or 158 FPRN from a magma mold
It is lubed with magma lube.

I can't tell if its a bevel base or not but I would place bets that it is.

I own both molds (the 125 and the 158).
I use the 125 a lot because it saves lead and my dad does shoot some j-frames.
I use unique for those. 4.7 grains is a nice load.

[fishboy]

The boolit you are buying is a 125 or 158 FPRN from a magma mold
It is lubed with magma lube.

I can't tell if its a bevel base or not but I would place bets that it is.

I own both molds (the 125 and the 158).
I use the 125 a lot because it saves lead and my dad does shoot some j-frames.
I use unique for those. 4.7 grains is a nice load.

Thank you for that info. It is a 158gr boolit. I was getting a decent amount of black smoke when shooting that round. I'm not sure if it was the powder or the lube. I would think lube smoke would be more of a white color. I only shot 50 rounds of that ammunition, no leading occurred. It was very accurate. Much more than the other purchased jacketed ammo.

Greg

[HATCH]

Its the lube not the powder.
Mine are smokey but they are better then factory loads too.

[fishboy]

Found this boolit mold while researching the 358477 a little more. This one will definitely require sizing though. It says it drops boolits at .360.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=194

The option run run FP or HP is cool. Not that an HP would be any benefit at the snubby velocities.

Greg

[Char-Gar]

I started shooting full charge wadcutters in the 38 Special after reading an article on the subject by Terry Murbach in the 11/87 issues of Peterson's Handguns. In a conversation with Terry just a couple of years ago, he told me that 3.5/Bulleye proved the best every time he tested it.

Ed Harris has really done good work in advancing this load and anybody who is interested in handloading defense ammo in the 38 Special will do well to give heed to his counsel.

The wadcutter can also be pushed out of a 357 Magnum case at quite snappy speeds. This weekend I put 100 rounds with this bullet loaded over 10/2400 out of my Smith and Wessons. Accuracy up to 50 yards is better than I can hold. Beyond that, I really don't care.

[Four-Sixty]

While the snubbies' sights are regulated to 158 grain loads, I have had good luck with the Lee 125 grain RF .358 boolit over 3.5 grains of Hogdon Clays. Shoots to the point of aim and burns pretty clean.

[fishboy]

So, I was looking through some of my reloading manuals and it looks like 3.5gr of bullseye is just above the max standard .38 special loads, but not quite to +P levels for 158gr cast boolits. Sounds like a fun load to shoot. I think I will start out with 3.0gr of Titegroup and work up from there if need be. Should I get some +P brass for these loads or should the standard brass suffice?

Now I just need to decide on a mold. Too many of them! At least everyone seems to like the ones they have so, it sounds like I can't go wrong with any of them really.

Thanks again to all of you for all of the info and links to article. I greatly appreciate it.

Greg

[Certaindeaf]

As has been said, the Lee 105 grain SWC is a great little number. I just have the double cavity and have been happy cranking them out two at a time for quite a while.
It also works very well in 9mm and .380.. cuts perfect holes in paper.
The Lee 140 grain SWC works very well also.. I've never used that in .380 though.. lol
I have a Lyman double cavity 133 grain SWC that's about the best of all worlds weight wise.
I did take a file (carefully.. it came out perfectly) to the front sight of my main snubby (Smith.. that front sight is just pinned anyway so easily replaceable) as I usually carry hollow point jacketed 110 grain +P's socially.
Good luck

[Bzcraig]

So, I was looking through some of my reloading manuals and it looks like 3.5gr of bullseye is just above the max standard .38 special loads, but not quite to +P levels for 158gr cast boolits. Sounds like a fun load to shoot. I think I will start out with 3.0gr of Titegroup and work up from there if need be. Should I get some +P brass for these loads or should the standard brass suffice?

Now I just need to decide on a mold. Too many of them! At least everyone seems to like the ones they have so, it sounds like I can't go wrong with any of them really.

Thanks again to all of you for all of the info and links to article. I greatly appreciate it.

Greg

On the Starline brass website they state the only difference in standard and +p brass is the head stamp so +p loads don't end up in guns not chambered for them, so just be sure to separate and label your loads if you make +p in standard brass. Just bought me a snubby, so have been following this thread with interest. I load and shoot the Lee 105 swc over 3gr of Trailboss for a plinking round, a perfect load for that in a GP100 and really economical. BTW, NOE makes awesome molds.

[Westwindmike]

I mark all my "hotter" loads on the primer with a red sharpie pen. Keeps them out of the wrong gun.

[fishboy]

Craig,

I was aware of Starline's brass. When I have to buy brass (which is rare) I always buy Starline. Most of my brass is not Starline, however.

Mike,

I probably over do it when it comes to labeling and tracking my hand loads. I also use a sharpie on all of them. I have 10 different color sharpies for identifying my hand loads. You can never be too careful.

Greg

[bhn22]

Don't sweat the "+P" headstamp, I've never known of a difference between the two. Many guys, myself included, have loaded 38 Spl brass to what are now considered crazy pressures without any related incidents.

[rockshooter]

I have the NOE 358477 in brass- it does cast them at .360. I have another NOE .360 mold in aluminum- I prefer it to the brass- it's much lighter and easier to use. Both are outstanding molds!
Loren

[Rainier]

Hi Fishboy - sure hope the weather back in my old home state isn't too miserable these days. If you'd like to try a few tumbled lubed Lee 158 SWC drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you a few...
Rainier

[evan price]

Lee 158-gr RNFP, 3.5 grains Titegroup, roll crimp in cannelure, will be a nice accurate load without a lot of kick.

[Moonman]

Defensive loading a 38 snubby I like a loaded cylinder of 148 grain DEWC's,

if you use a speed loader for backup, you can load it with 158 grain SWC ,

as they are easier and quicker to reload the cylinder with.

Defensive Shooting by CITIZENS is usually UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL,

Too much distance for a NON LAW ENFORCEMENT shooting may cause added legal issues.(JMHO)

WADCUTTERS make great wound channels within the BAD GUYS/OR GALS.

Shot Placement between the shirt pockets is good,

Between the eyes or in the eye is better, ONLY IF YOU'RE A GREAT SHOT UNDER DURESS!(JMHO)

PRACTICE-PRACTICE-PRACTICE, is the key element for shot placement, YOUR GUN, YOUR LOAD.

[gray wolf]

A threat to your life as in a ballistic confrontation can come at any distance. The legality of the shoot is strictly up to the shooter as to his life being threatened to the point that death or severe bodily injury may be eminent. Remember the courts may have years to decide if it's a good shoot or not, you on the other hand have seconds. Fight or flight can and often is left up to interpretation. Be sure it translates in your favor.
The object is to neutralize the threat as soon as possible with the least amount of collateral damage and NOT to shoot after the threat is over. ( don't shoot the bad guy again if it's not needed ) then it's Murder.
Control and efficiency of the weapon you have plays an important part.
Ever been in a fire fight ? ever had to defend your life ?
did you feel an overabundance of control ??
Not saying that I don't agree with many of the post in this thread, cause I do, just thought I would add a little extra to the mix without going over board and changing the focus of the discussion.

[Moonman]

grey wolf,

The LEGALITY is up to WHAT the PROSECUTOR THINKS, possibly the Grand Jury's thoughts,

and WHAT A CRIMINAL JURY IS CONVINCED OF OR BELIEVES.

Too much distance and a jury just may not BELIEVE YOUR IMMINENT THREAT is a valid one.

State Laws may vary.

[fishboy]

Guys,

While I greatly appreciate everyone's input on the subject matter of this thread, I would like to encourage everyone to please stay on topic. I'm not trying to "bite the hand that's feeding me" here but I get frustrated myself when I search forums looking for input on a subject and I have to sift through posts to find something that is meaningful to what I have searched.

Thanks,
Greg

[gray wolf]

The LEGALITY is up to WHAT the PROSECUTOR THINKS, possibly the Grand Jury's thoughts,

and WHAT A CRIMINAL JURY IS CONVINCED OF OR BELIEVES.

Too much distance and a jury just may not BELIEVE YOUR IMMINENT THREAT is a valid one.

State Laws may vary.

Your correct, your so right, or whatever you say sir. didn't mean to step on your toes, read my post again
don't skip any parts. And once again, sorry for the post shift.

[Westwindmike]

I probably over do it when it comes to labeling and tracking my hand loads. I also use a sharpie on all of them. I have 10 different color sharpies for identifying my hand loads. You can never be too careful.

Greg

I like that idea. I need to go get a few more colors of Sharpies.