22 Hornet Cast bullets

[GrinnnPossum]

Been doing some reading on the site.Lots of good information on here from some very friendly people. I've just purchased a Savage Modl 25 rifle in 22 Hornet. Sounds like a lot of fun to shoot cast boolits. I've reloaded some jacketed bullets for the gun but no cast boolits. I'm thinking about getting the Lyman #225438 mold and would like to start casting. Lots of questions. Can I shoot the boolits as cast or do I need to size them? If I need to size them do I size to .224 or .225? Looking at the Lee lube size kit. Do I need to slug my barrel to find the measurement on lands and grooves? Is Alox better than pan lube or is it the other way around? Oh and gas checks. The way I understand it is if I keep the velocity down I don't need gas checks is this true? I'm sure I will think of more questions but they can wait.Thank you in advance for any answers. Sorry for the rambling. Walter

[AlaskanGuy]

Yes, yes, and yes.... That mold would be great, so would the 45 grain from Noe.... First step though is to slug your barrel... So you can find out what sizer if you will need. I would go ahead and order a inexpensive .225 sizer from lee on ebay.... It will come with some alox that you can use. Might better get you some aluminum or copper gas checks at the same time.... Then you will be ready to load whatever you create..... Pan lubing would be best.... But I shoot tons of them little things with alox..gas checks are necessary on a gas check design, and you will get the best results from using them.. I load them for my 22 jet and they are a blast.... Dont try to push them too hard.... Load them for veloicity.... Look for loads around 1700 fps. Like 9 grains of 2400 for my little boolits in the 223 works wonders....

Welcome and good luck... If you have other questions around here, just ask.. Lots of folks love to help out a new caster....

[kenyerian]

Slug your bore . I have the best results with .224 in the Contender 22 Hornet. The Savage might be different.
I really like the Noe 225107 37 grain mold for the Hornet http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=483&osCsid=e8tpnm177nl3cih745fp4q4l32

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Been doing some reading on the site.Lots of good information on here from some very friendly people. I've just purchased a Savage Modl 25 rifle in 22 Hornet. Sounds like a lot of fun to shoot cast boolits. I've reloaded some jacketed bullets for the gun but no cast boolits. I'm thinking about getting the Lyman #225438 mold and would like to start casting. Lots of questions. Can I shoot the boolits as cast or do I need to size them? If I need to size them do I size to .224 or .225? Looking at the Lee lube size kit. Do I need to slug my barrel to find the measurement on lands and grooves? Is Alox better than pan lube or is it the other way around? Oh and gas checks. The way I understand it is if I keep the velocity down I don't need gas checks is this true? I'm sure I will think of more questions but they can wait.Thank you in advance for any answers. Sorry for the rambling. Walter

It sounds like you are new to casting rifle boolits, I highly suggest getting and reading the Lyman cast bullet handbook #4

I will give you some short answers to your questions

>Yes you can shoot cast boolits without sizing them.
>But for better uniformity (read accuracy), they should be sized.
>sizing them to .001 to .002 over groove dia. is best.
>Yes, slug your bore...or ask 'Carnac the Magnificent'
>Lee's liquid Alox is fine for 22 hornet IMHO,
>But I believe a Beeswax based lube will do you better.
>Yes you can shoot 22 boolits without GC's
>But you will get patterns instead of groups when doing so.

Here's an answer to the question you should have asked.
>Yes, if you want accuracy better than 3" groups at 50 yards, you will need to inspect the boolits closely and cull out any that have the slightest visible imperfection, then weigh sort them into groups by 0.1 gr.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

If you have not shot 22 H before there are numerous things to think of.

Win cases have 1 grain less capacity then R-P and last longer in heavy loads. But Winchester cases often split necks after 1 or two firings. Prompt annealing af all brands is important. Case life is related closely to load pressures. Case mixing is a no-no for any sort of accuracy. Perceived effort in seating your cast boolits is something to anticipate in reloading. Differences mean inaccuracy.

A "m" die is a requirement as some dies reduce necks too much. Some firearms have oversize chambers and dies also work the brass case bases too much.

Often times standard pistol primers work best accuracy wise. Sometimes diluted alox, sparingly applied after GC seating or boolit sizing works very well. Cull castings closely. Try Hornady or Lyman GCs as small dimensional differences are troublesome in physically seating Gcs, sizing, and reloading good ammo.

You may find more considerations as you work through an accuracy search.

BvT

[cummins05]

older hornets have a smaller bore so slugging it is a must i really like 2400 powder and small pistol primers with the lyman 225415 lubes with some felix yields me under 1 moa at 100 yrds every time i have a cheap bushnell scope on it my hornet is a 23d savage i belive

[altheating]

May I suggest the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die (Makes precious 22 Hornet die last much longer), a NOE Bullet Mould 226 45Gr. GC (BRP) and a pound of 4227 or LilGun and SP primers. Cast up some good boolits and start having a ball with that little cartridge. The hornet can be a bit addicting. I only shot mine 5000 times last year.

[cummins05]

i forgot to include that a neck sizing die is a really good idea hornet brass is expensive and sometimes hard to come by i have reloaded hornet brass like 8 times before i have seen any splits from resizing when using a neck die

[pearcetopher]

did you read the stickies

[GrinnnPossum]

Thanks so much for all the replies.Looks like I will try and slug the barrel.I already have a Lee Collet die. I also have some H110,2400 and Lil'Gun powders. I have tried to read as many of the stickies that I could. I have reloaded some jacketed bullets for it and used small pistol primers w/H110 powder with pretty good results. Casting just sounds like fun. Don't really know how much I will cast so not really wanting to spend a lot on start up.

[quilbilly]

This is so sad. Once you cast a few and shoot them, you will realize just what you have been missing then become obsessive like the rest of us. Stop now before you become addicted. My hornet Contender carbine loves 2400 with cast and 4198 with jacketed.

[kenyerian]

Right now it is cheaper to shoot the hornet then it is a 22. ( If you reload with cast)

[gnoahhh]

All good advice. I would only add that in addition to slugging the bore to determine groove diameter, you should also determine the dimensions of the throat. The throat on my rifle starts at .225 and tapers to .222 groove diameter (pre-war German stalking rifle). Once I started sizing my bullets to .225 (pretty much as-cast diameter in my molds) instead of .223 (to give me .001 over groove diameter), my accuracy improved (and it wasn't bad to begin with). Throat fitting trumps bore fitting, IMO.

(Now all I need to do is figure out how to create a bullet with a .225 base tapered to .222 at the first driving band...)

There's a good discussion on making a model of the throat on another forum on this website. I found that doing a simple cerrosafe cast gave me the dimensions I needed to accomplish the above.

I also got lucky and found that a .225 bullet fits my fired cases snugly enough to preclude any sizing, the result of a tightly cut chamber. All I do is de-re cap and charge the case, then seat the bullet. Not a good system for rugged field use maybe, but plenty good for shooting off the bench. I'm also gearing up to try breech seating, but that's another story.

[P.J.Plinkerton]

Mine likes the 225415 sized at 225 with a gc through a lee sizer and some 4227 to help it on its way. Only your rifle can tell you what's best for you. There are literally entire websites dedicated to the 22 hornet. It's a passion unto itself.

P.J.

[303Guy]

I've tried 'glueing' bullets into the case mouth. A wad gets seated to the required depth and the bullet gets warmed up in a pan of molten lube then place into the upright case mouth. My theory is if the clearance is small the bullet should centre. Shot pretty good and the hold was enough for magazine feeding. Why not the same with boolits? The lube I used was one part candle wax, one part Alox and one part STP which sets quite solid which may be too hard for cast. It's real easy to once you have the card punch and therein lies the problem. For me no problem as I simply made one of the right size for a tight fit in the neck. Also, I was using a case filling powder so the bullet could not get bumped into the case.

Oh, I used Federal small rifle primers - they are supposed to be low power and high sensitivity.

[dtknowles]

.............I also got lucky and found that a .225 bullet fits my fired cases snugly enough to preclude any sizing, the result of a tightly cut chamber. All I do is de-re cap and charge the case, then seat the bullet. Not a good system for rugged field use maybe, but plenty good for shooting off the bench..........

I like and use this method, thought I invented it 8-) I actually pan lube (50/50 alox and beeswax, not homemande) and don't size the bullets (45 grain NOE without gas check) drops from the mold .226 to .227 they are a nice fit in some of my fired brass. A small charge of Green Dot and they leave the barrel just over 1500 fps. No leading. I just throw the charges not weighing. Bullets carefully visually inspected but not weight sorted. See another thread (how consistent are you) I did way what I have left over after loading the latest batch, pretty consistent. I was resisting the need to size brass because of the wear and tear and need to anneal. I do occasionaly anneal my brass but I shoot some with jacketed bullets and those loads I partially resize with a full length die. I am shooting these in a Ruger #3 so the chamber is nominal and the bore is .224. I bought some used brass and it was oversized for my chamber so plus one for whoever said that some chambers are oversized. I use IMR 4227 and Lil Gun for jacketed bullet loads but for cast I have been using Green Dot, Unique and Red Dot. I would use small pistol primers but I need to save them for pistols until the shortage changes and my small rifle primer stash get smaller. I have a Lyman 55 grain LRN w/GC mold that I have tried in the more traditional manner but it does not group as nice as the little NOE bullet and the gas check adds a couple cent per round. I am thinking about trying to push the 55 grainer a little harder and see how it does but it is not a priority since I am having good luck with the NOE bullet. When I first shot the NOE bullet it was doing right at an inch for five rounds at 50 yards this last trip to the range I move out to 100 yards and to my surprise the groups stayed right at an in for five except that I was getting occasional an shot that was wide left. I did not have any wind flags so I think there was some changes in wind direction. Mostly the wind was in my face but....... I can't think of any reloading issue that would cause a repeatable miss to the left, could be the shooter or the wind. I was expecting some vertical stringing because I was not weighing charges but could not see that on the target. I did have one shot that chrono'd about 100 fps low but it still hit the clay pigion target. I can only shoot groups for so long before I start looking for some other entertainment, I know that a clay at 100 yards in not much of a challange but if is better than the 8 inch gong that the AR guys find so entertaining.

This ammo shoots as well as anything I have in .22 LR and costs less but is a lot more work.

Tim

[wistlepig1]

Stop right now, pay not attention to all the above post, don't cast any bullits. The addiction is more than anyone can stand. Don't do it, advice from someone that knows.:-D

I got my Savage 25 about 3 years ago and love the monster! Prairie dog don;t think its funny at all! good shoot'n

[JSH]

Is a PB mold worth fooling with? Just looking for something for 50 yards and less minute of tree rat.
Jeff

[wistlepig1]

Is a PB mold worth fooling with? Just looking for something for 50 yards and less minute of tree rat.
Jeff
Yes, I have had good luck with Lyman 438 and Lilgun (somewhere 7.5+ or-.3) @ 50 yds but not at 100 yds.

[HotGuns]

I couldn't find a mold that I wanted so I made one. I wanted some smooth bullets so that I could powder coat them. I'm waiting on a sizing die to get here so that I can size them.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/22Hornetbulletsandmold.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/HotGuns/media/22Hornetbulletsandmold.jpg.html)

[Larry Gibson]

Your M25 should have a 14" twist same as my M40. The 225438 is and excellent choice but if you come across a 225462 don't hesitate to pick it up. Nice long bearing surface fits very well in the Hornet's long neck. No problem with stabilization either. Mine shoots a tudge better than the 225438 in the M40 with H110, 4227, 2400, 4759 and 5744.

Target photo shows 10 shots at 100 yards with the 225462 at 2450 fps with H110. That is a 1" paster.

Larry Gibson

9300793008

[DLCTEX]

I use the 225438 in my ruger rifle and Tarus Raging Hornet pistol, usually with H110 powder. Great combo.
Fortuantly the chambers of both guns match closely so that I use neck sized ammo in either gun. Nice surprise.

[Iowa Fox]

Thats a nice group Larry

[Larry Gibson]

Thats a nice group Larry

Sure does "thump" little ground squirrels!

Larry Gibson

[.22-10-45]

I never could get the Lyman 225438 to shoot in my Shillen barreled Hornet..but you may have better luck. The early style (1970) 49 gr. Lyman 225415 & later heaver (1980) shot alot more accurate. I had been casting for nearly 20 years before I started casting for the .22..first few sessions I ended up with a pile of rejects..and a few good ones. I now use a clock with large second sweep hand..watch sprue puddle "turn"..and start counting..usually 4-5sec. This has dramatically cut down on reject bullets and allowed holding weights to .5gr.
One of greatest improvements in accuracy came when I turned up a tapered sizer to match front band to rifles leade angle and dia. It fits my Lyman 45 & using adj. screw on sizer, dia. can be controlled. I am sizing all bullets both P.B. & G.C. .226 dia.

[3006mv]

I couldn't find a mold that I wanted so I made one. I wanted some smooth bullets so that I could powder coat them. I'm waiting on a sizing die to get here so that I can size them.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/22Hornetbulletsandmold.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/HotGuns/media/22Hornetbulletsandmold.jpg.html)

hey so how did your powder coat turn out with these?
how did you make your own mold? from a blank Lee? what is the process, I was wondering if anyone has done this yet, basically a smooth boolit like a j-word but powder coated.

[HotGuns]

The powder coated bullets shoot great. After shooting about 150 of them, there was no sign of leading, in fact the barrel looked great.
I made the mold from scratch using some 1" thick 6061 T6 aluminum plate. Bullets were tumble lubed and shot subsonic, through a suppressor.

[GabbyM]

Did you try some just lubed ? Seams at 22 rim fire velocity you could skip the PC. Not like that would be a new trick.