A quandry

[oneokie]

In a quandry here. Having read the posts on fluxing, have a few questions about the wood stick technique. [smilie=1:

Is this used while smelting, or just when casting? :confused:

What type of wood? Saw several references to the possibility that any thing with pitch in it could cause the tinsel fairy to visit. To my thinking, that would eliminate most of the soft woods. :confused:

Any particular hardwood? Have a supply of the following;

Oak, 5 subspecies
Elm, 3 subspecies
Hickory, 2 subspecies
Walnut, Black
Cherry, Black
Apple, 3 varieties
Peach, 4 varieties
Apricot
Plum, 2 varieties
Pear, 2 varieties
Locust, Black and Honey
Bois D'Arc, with thorns and thornless
Hackberry
Willow
Sycamore
Persimmon
Sasafrass
Pecan, Native and grafted
Cottonwood
Mulberry, fruited and fruitless

Does the profile of the stick matter? Split, sawn, turned dowel, or just a limb, with or without the bark, root wood? [smilie=1:

Does the phase of the moon or the alignment of the planets make any difference?

Stir CW or CCW?

:kidding: :kidding:

Oh, No suggestions to try each and report.

[montana_charlie]

I use a stick when smelting, but I think most anything is ok for that 'rough work'.
I use only the stick for casting...and mine are scraps from my table saw.
Most of that is plain old pine.

When introducing a new stick to hot lead, I lower it in a bit at a time...as it tends to 'sizzle' some.
If lead starts to get a little rambunctious, I just back it out a little.
Once that piece of wood has been used a couple of times, it no longer causes spitting.

I have the old ten-pound Lyman Mould Master pot, so there's not a lot of extra roon for dancing. Therefore, I like sticks about 3/4" square, and a foot long. That is long enough to use the same one for quite a while before it gets used up.
But I wouldn't turn my nose up at one that was an inch wide and a quarter thick.

Actually, shape, type of wood, and most of the other things you mentioned, don't really matter much...except for the moon phase question.

CM

[KYCaster]

When the moon is in the seventh house and Mercury aligns with Mars, at the stroke of midnight on the vernal equanox, with the blade of your froe oriented to true north...take a 10in. dia. X 16in. long piece of persimmon and split a 1/4in. thick slab out of the heart wood and use that to make your stirring sticks.

Either that or get some free paint paddles from Lowe's, they work fine.:mrgreen:


Jerry (the devil made me do it)

[DeanoBeanCounter]

Just don't use Quaken Aspen. It pops no matter how dry it is. If you've ever burned quaken aspen in a camp fire you'll know what I mean.
Maybe the alignment of the planets might help, I don't know.
Deano

[pumpguy]

I think I would use the persimmon, sassafrass, hickory or the fruit woods. I think they smell the best. I would stay away from the willow, cottonwood and hedge. The willow family stinks and the hedge NEVER seems to get dry. Pine probably works, but, if you have all those hardwoods to choose from, why bother? I am assuming this is lumber and not firewood? If not, cut or split a piece from it and make sure it is dry. I use a big piece when I smelt and a small piece when I cast. Phase of the moon doesn't seem to make much difference, but, presence of SWMBO does!!

[MtGun44]

I thought that was the Viral equinoxious. . . . . . :-D

Bill

[Bret4207]

Man, good thing I saw the "yanking your chain" symbol at the end of the first post. I thought this was serious for a second!:-D

[Johnch]

Never use Hedge Apple/Osage Orange as it pops real bad
And Sweet Gum , when it burns it releases toxic fumes

I have a colection of branchs from the maple tree in the front yard
I cut them 12" or so long and lay them on a shelf to dry till needed
But you must let them dry at least a month

I bet I am using stuff I colected 2 years ago right now

John

[Gohon]

If this thread is a joke then it is at best in bad taste and at worse flat dangerous. People like myself that are new to casting and working with hot molting lead read everything we can and try to learn from the experience of others. I never heard of using cat litter or saw dust for fluxing until I read it here. Those little icons don't mean anything in the real world. Then I see this thread about using a plain stick that will burn off forming ash for fluxing and I look at it as something new I didn't know about. Which is it, joke or truth?????

[montana_charlie]

If this thread is a joke then it is at best in bad taste and at worse flat dangerous.
Then I see this thread about using a plain stick that will burn off forming ash for fluxing and I look at it as something new I didn't know about. Which is it, joke or truth?????
It's true, Gohon. Here is a formal introduction for you...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=226809&postcount=14

CM

[oneokie]

johnch wrote:


Never use Hedge Apple/Osage Orange as it pops real bad
And Sweet Gum , when it burns it releases toxic fumes


Knew about the Bois D'Arc popping, Hickory will do the same. Did not know about the Sweet Gum releasing toxic fumes. Learned something today!

Gohon, my OP on this thread was tongue-in-cheek humor. When I first came to this forum, I was skeptical about some of the things stated about fluxing.
Use the search function and read! You will find that there are many things that can be used for flux. If there is any danger to some of the fluxes, it will be mentioned. Use common sense.

Thick skin and hip waders are also useful.

[imashooter2]

When the moon is in the seventh house and Mercury aligns with Mars, at the stroke of midnight on the vernal equanox, with the blade of your froe oriented to true north...take a 10in. dia. X 16in. long piece of persimmon and split a 1/4in. thick slab out of the heart wood and use that to make your stirring sticks.

Either that or get some free paint paddles from Lowe's, they work fine.:mrgreen:


Jerry (the devil made me do it)

Dude! That's flat out dangerous... Everyone knows that it's Jupiter that needs to be aligned with Mars! [smilie=1:

I like the large paint stirrers that they keep behind the counter. I ask for a couple every time I'm in the store.

[Rick N Bama]

Next thing ya know someone will be talking about using wood ashes & old motor oil as a smelting flux!

I use paint stiring sticks and pieces of a limb from my Pecan tree to stir the pot. I think the paint sticks work best as I can scrape the bottom & sides a bit better with them. YMMV

Rick

[Scrounger]

Yeah. CarpetMan introduced us to using cats for fluxing. I strongly recommend you put leather booties on their paws before trying to stir your pot with a cat...

[Blammer]

dead cats work better....

[Lead melter]

Yippee!
Now I've got a use for all the dead cats fertilizing my yard!
Thanks guys.

[waksupi]

Stay away from poison oak!

I still have pinion pine sticks that Grumble sent me. Best smelling stirring sticks around!

By the way, it IS a bad idea to stir the pot with a live cat. Always use a dead one.

[Ricochet]

Stay away from poison oak!

Good advice anytime!

Especially when looking for leaves as a TP substitute.

[bigborefan]

[QUOTE]If this thread is a joke then it is at best in bad taste and at worse flat dangerous. People like myself that are new to casting and working with hot molting lead read everything we can and try to learn from the experience of others. I never heard of using cat litter or saw dust for fluxing until I read it here. Those little icons don't mean anything in the real world. Then I see this thread about using a plain stick that will burn off forming ash for fluxing and I look at it as something new I didn't know about. Which is it, joke or truth?????
Gohon, The joking part that they are talking about was when Oneokie asked if it mattered whether to stir CW or CCW. The part about using a stick to flux is a great way to flux. I use one all the time.

[Gohon]

OK, maybe I jumped the gun a little and took Bret4207's post the wrong way and thought what I reading as serious was actually a joke. I do have thick skin and can take the best shots, I think. Ya gotta remember us new comers don't know all the inside jokes. Thanks for clearing things up for me.

[floodgate]

Gohon:

The kitty litter recommendation is a serious one; a layer of the plain, new, clay pellet stuff prevents oxidation when using a bottom-pout pot - doesn't work so well for dipper casting, though. The joke part is the reminder to use NEW and not USED litty kitter.

Basically, anything (otherwise suitable and non-toxic) that either prevents air from reaching the melt surface, OR that takes up oxygen (i.e.; burns or oxidizes) preferentially vs. lead/tin/antimony, will do the job.

floodgate

[leftiye]

Gohon, I was using dog food for flux last night. No kidding, no lie. If it will burn, and has carbon in it (including oil, grease, fat, wood, rosin, wax, boolit lube) it will reduce oxides, some things better than others though.

[Johnch]

Next thing ya know someone will be talking about using wood ashes & old motor oil as a smelting flux!

Rick

I use sawdust soaked with motor oil ( floor sweeps ) all the time for OUTDOOR smelts
Mix a handfull in and let it smoke
If you don't like the smoke , light the smoke off

NEVER use it inside , I know this from trying it 1 time [smilie=1:[smilie=1:

As for the Posion Oak
That is just scary to think just Where you could break out

John

[hydraulic]

Gohon: One other thing should be mentioned. We don't use kitty litter for fluxing, it is used to avoid the need for skimming the dross off the melt. Kitty litter keeps the melted lead from oxidizing.

[hydraulic]

I didn't see page 2. Subject already covered.

[looseprojectile]

No no no, you guys are doing it all wrong.
I have found the best and only way to stir the pot.
I was having trouble with the molten lead splashing when using a stick with flat sides. Now I will only use rounded sticks and get very little to no splashing. Also I shouldn't tell you about this but I have found that if I use a mahogany stick I get much better fill out and practically no rejects since using a round mahogany stick.
Now I will tell you all the rest of the story. I have been thinking of starting a new business selling round mahogany sticks.
Problem is I don't have time to work, so one of you will have to step up and provide these sticks for the rest of us. I also have some mahogany planer shavings which could be a valuable side line to the sticks.
How about a mahogany stick packed with mahogany planer shavings for the low introductory price of just $9.99 and if you order now I will double your order, just think flux and a stick both for the incredibly low price of just $9.99 guaranteed to make better boolits or double your shavings back.
Where do you want me to send the raw materials?

All kidding aside I have had some trouble with flat sided sticks splashing and have had to wear a glove when stirring with a flat stick.:-D

[KYCaster]

Dude! That's flat out dangerous... Everyone knows that it's Jupiter that needs to be aligned with Mars! [smilie=1:

I like the large paint stirrers that they keep behind the counter. I ask for a couple every time I'm in the store.


Jupiter? Who's he?

Oh...he's the guy that made me do it. Guess I failed the hippie test, huh? Do I have to turn in my love beads? Maybe I can use 'em for flux...hmmm...

Jerry (can't get away with anything around here)

[flinchnjerk]

Blammer
I must disagree; live cats are a great energy saver. You simply stuff them in the pot; they'll do the stirring. You can also reuse each one eight times.

[cohutt]

I use tumbling media that has been retired from tumbling as a substitute for sawdust.

Lizard Litter walnut seems to work well, plus a nice smell to it as well when compared to some organics i've tried. I suppose there is some wax in it, leftover from Nu Finish car polish that has been added.

Popsicle sticks are all i've tried as far as stir sticks. THey get eated up bu the melt pretty fast but seem to work. I plan on trying a retired broom handle- no paint is on it and it has been drying in out kitchen pantry for 21 years with very little use.

[Gohon]

Gohon: One other thing should be mentioned. We don't use kitty litter for fluxing, it is used to avoid the need for skimming the dross off the melt. Kitty litter keeps the melted lead from oxidizing.

Let me pose a question to you then. Apparently this method would not work on casting when using a open pot and ladle. I've only cast bullets twice so far and I thought everything worked pretty good and was satisfied with the job. I use a Lyman scoop for casting and a lee scoop for occasionally removing the dross that formed in the pot. The dross I simply dumped into a metal pan and discarded when finished. My question is how much actual antimony and tin or other metals am I possible removing with this method or is it so minute it really is of no concern. I would stir the pot and skim the dross about every ten casts. At the end of the session I had a dross pile a little larger than a golf ball. It took me about a hour and a half or two hours to cast about 400 30 caliber bullets at the rate I was going with the same open pot.

[montana_charlie]

My question is how much actual antimony and tin or other metals am I possible removing with this method or is it so minute it really is of no concern.
Say Gohon,
Did you read the post at the link I left for you?
It tells you how to keep from removing ANY metal from your pot.

If you click on the link in the top right of that post, you get to read the whole thread. That thread "Thars Gold In That There Dross" actually answers your question about 'how much - and should I worry'.

CM

[Gohon]

Yes, I did read it but it didn't answer the particular question I had. My main interest is if there was really significant amount of metal loss or was it just kind of like running 25 pounds of air in your tires when the specs calls for 26 pounds. Can't think of anything else as an example of what I'm after. Didn't see the link at the top so I printed that thread and I'm off to read that now.

[montana_charlie]

Well, the author of that thread turned six ingots of alloy into nine ingots by recovering the dross he had been saving. That seems to be a substantial amount, to me.

Back when I was using pure lead to make round ball, I removed dross religiously after (about) every 20 pours. Maybe that was a quarter teaspoon per skim, but that was enough to cast one more bullet...if it had been usable. I don't know how much I threw away back then, but it was several pounds per year...and lead was hard to find where I was living at the time. Throwing away 1/20th of my lead was wasteful, but I didn't know how to prevent it.

Now I know the stuff us not only 'useable'...I know how to make it return to a useable state.
Even better, I know how to keep from removing it to begin with.

It is that information I am trying to pass on to you, Gohon.
CM

[Gohon]

Thanks, I read the entire thread and that cleared things up for me. A long time ago as a Navy instructor I learned that even the brightest of the students drifted around if they didn't have all the pieces of the puzzle. As informative as it was the single post didn't bring it all together but the entire thread you directed me to gave me all the pieces of the puzzle. Actually it even answered some questions I had on a couple other matters. Thanks again..............

[leftiye]

Gohon, If you are ladle casting you can still use covering flux (I like crushed charcoal). If you have a dipper with a hole thru the side spout, just make a small hole on the charcoal and set the ladle down with the spout at the bottom and fill it through the spout hole. Should keep your ladle warm too.