A lobbying effort for SAECO to produce bigger "44" caliber sizing dies (ie .432"+)

[catboat]

SAECO/Redding makes fine sizing dies for their equally fine lubrisizer ( I have one). There seems to be a gap, or end point, in their lubrisizing dies for the "44" caliber. They make a .430" and .431" as there two largest diameter sizing dies for "44 caliber."

I wish they would expand their regular product line to include at least a .432" offering, and even .433", and .434" options.

I'm casting/reloading for a 44 Special (Ruger flat top Bisley). It has .432" throats.

I would presume there are other 44 mag / 44 Special reloaders that would like larger diameter lubed and sized bullets for their 1894 Marlins , 444 Marlins, S&Ws, Ruger Blackhawks.

If you would like the option for a fatter sized "44 caliber" SAECO lubrisizing die, (ie 0.432" or greater), please feel free to chime in. I've already emailed them directly. It was like talking to a brick wall.

Yes, I know I could have my .431" sizing die opened up. I'm seeking a standard factory product from SAECO.

Would you like a larger diameter SAECO sizing die in "44" caliber? What diameter would be best for you?

Time to be heard. Maybe SAECO will respond.

[bhn22]

RCBS & Lyman don't offer .432 either. I'm thinking this will be an uphill battle.

[bones37]

Catboat, I understand where You are coming from but I also agree that this may be a up hill battle. FWIW, I had Buckshot make me one, and Erik from Hollowpointmold modify another, and to me they look and function as well as a factory sizer.

As per what bhn22 mentioned, neither do lyman or RCBS, which is what I have.(rcbs) However, one would think they could *offer* the option IF someone wanted one.

bones.

[MtGun44]

Not very hard to open up a die a few thousandths.

Bill

[high standard 40]

Try "buckshot" -----a user name here. I know he makes custom sizer dies for Lyman and RCBS. Not sure if he makes them for Saeco but you can try him.

[bhn22]

It's only about ten minutes of work to lap a die out a thou or so.

[cbrick]

In the time it took to email SAECO (Redding) & explain what you wanted you could have had your die honed exactly as you wanted it.

Also my experience trying to talk with Redding (brick wall), they'll sure give you the impression that they are the only ones that know anything and your an idiot. I got the worst customer service from Redding than any place else in my 65 years, not just the reloading or firearms industry . . . Anyplace! I used to sing their praises but not any more, I bought my last anything that comes from Redding a few years back just because of the customer service.

Rick

[youngda9]

You can get the same mold produced by a number of custom mold makers. Accurate mold will have the quickest turn-around time. Just send him the dimensions and he'll add it to the catalogue. I don't have a lubrisizer, but I know it's simple to open up a $20 lee push-through sizer to whatever you want.

[Bigslug]

No need for the lobbying effort - Buffalo Arms makes custom sizing dies for the Saeco: http://www.buffaloarms.com/Saeco_custom_sizing_dies_pr-3863.aspx

[bhn22]

Wow! $62.00 bucks a copy. Thats... sporting.

[MtGun44]

Contact buckshot or lathesmith. The make highest quality sizer dies for much less
than that price.

Bill

[fatnhappy]

In my experience factory sizing die diameters are "recommendations." I have a lyman .310 die that sizes to .311 and a lyman .311 die that sizes closer to .310, with my alloys. I feel you're far more likely to have a sizing die size exactly as desired if you buy a thou undersize and hone it upwards instead of buy off the shelf.

Having said that I understand where catboat is coming from. How many custom .44 moulds have we run here that spec .434"? How many guys here NEED a minimum of .432" for their rugers? I suspect the numbers are staggering. In the spirit of the silver stream I'll send SAECO an email. Good luck with your cause celeb.



BTW, I bought a saeco sizer from somebody here about 3 years ago and absolutely love it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Gosh why don't you try Buckshot, it's only been mentioned here 6 times in 12 posts.

I would also expand on cbricks comment about Redding. I have found that Redding is incapable of error, and thus has no need to respond to under-educated pissants like the people here. $65 for a push thru die for debulging .40 S&W cases that looked like a complete *** with bad knurling? please,,, and even worse plating, was my end off with them. They refused to acknowledge that the knurling was bad stating that it was impossible for their CNC machines to turn out bad parts. However since I had the die in hand, and my eyesight has not advanced to completely blind, they were arguing with a brick wall. I also know what good and bad knurling looks like since I too own a machine shop and do this operation frequently.

The only people I have ever ran into that were also incapable of error were the Swiss.

I wish I owned a machine shop that never made a bad part!

I refuse to deal with an outfit like this and whereas they do make some good stuff, nothing they make is worth the prices that they want for said tooling. They are consistently 2X the price of RCBS tooling, and there is not anything close to 2X the difference in fit or finish.

I have 2 sets of Redding dies in 6.5x55 Swede that I bought at a swap meet for $10 for both and they were hardly used and that's the only reason why I have anything from them at all. I wouldn't mind having a T7 Turret Press however they are way over priced so unless I find one used I won't be going down that road either.

Not a big fan of this outfit.

Why don't you try Buckshot for a oversized sizing die? He is prompt and his work is excellent. He'll make you anything you need so long as it is not readily available from a major supplier. He doesn't like to reinvent the wheel.

Randy

[catboat]

...Having said that I understand where catboat is coming from. How many custom .44 moulds have we run here that spec .434"? How many guys here NEED a minimum of .432" for their rugers? I suspect the numbers are staggering. In the spirit of the silver stream I'll send SAECO an email. Good luck with your cause celeb.

Thank you for your comments fatnhappy. That is exactly my point. Marlin shooters using 44 mag and 444 Marlin rifles have found "bigger is better" for bullet diameter. Custom mold makers on castboolits make "full size" or "fat" diameter "44 caliber" cast bullets to .432" and .434" specs.

Another reply said (sic) "RCBS and Lyman don't offer a .432"+ sizer." That's why I'm requesting it. THERE IS A NEED FOR A LARGER DIAMETER SIZER DIE FOR "44 caliber" bullet casters.

I even stated I knew I could open up a die (whether it be by home honing or sending it to a board member/buckshot etc), and yet I get multiple responses suggesting that very option. That wasn't the point. I may just send a SAECO sizing die to a board member for diameter increase. Yes that's an option. I know.

If you believe that it would benefit you to have a .432" or .433" or .434" sizing from SAECO (or RCBS or Lyman), please send a message to that company. If the see the need, hopefully they will fill that need. That's why you see "30 caliber" sizers run .308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, etc).

I'd like to see a factory SAECO (or Lyman or RCBS) sizing die offering in .432" and .434" (maybe .433"). I believe others would too. Would you?

[cbrick]

I wouldn't mind having a T7 Turret Press however they are way over priced so unless I find one used I won't be going down that road either. Randy

The T-7 I bought is what started the dust up between Redding & me. It would be a great press but for one little thing, the ram doesn't line up with the dies. Raise the ram slowly & the case has to tip slightly to enter the die. Redding said that was impossible with a Redding product, they said no, do not send it back we don't need to see it. Then they told me that if I didn't like that then I should buy RCBS products. All that was on the phone with Robin Sharpless of Redding. When someone from here emailed Redding that I was posting my experiences here Redding then sent out emails to people that had nothing to do with any of this that slandered me. I should have and almost did sue them.

There was more to all this including a bad mold but that's pretty much the jist of it. I did take Redding's advice though, RCBS is a great company to deal with and they have great products.

I have no illusions of putting Redding out of business but I can assure you have I cost them many, many sales and will continue to.

Rick

[W.R.Buchanan]

Rick: did I read about this exact situation on the LASC cast boolit site?

I was appalled that Redding would take such a stance. The relationship between the holes for the dies and the detent holes in the turret is what was off.

They were saying that it was impossible for these to be out of kilter because they were done in the same set up,,, which is normally true,,, except in the case where the part moves in the fixture.

Another case would be if the XY zero for the part moved. IN the case of a part like a turret the XY zero is going to be the center of the part. If the zero shifted during the run of parts, and loose fixture hold downs or even a power failure could account for these simple mistakes, which would result in the 7/8 holes being positioned around one center and the detent holes around a second center.

You could check the positioning by simply taking measurements from the center pivot hole to each one of the detent holes. They should all be the same. If they aren't then the part is bad. Also performing the same action on the die holes. if any of them are different then that is where the problem is.

IF the turret is right then the base casting's turret pivot and ram hole locations are not in the same plane and that is going to be much more difficult to prove as you almost need a CMM machine to detect the errors in positioning due to their odd placements with relation to each other. IE you can't just take a set of calibers and measure between two holes as above.

My gripe was based around incomplete knurls on a $65 die body. When you see knurls that have twice as many lines in one direction as the other, what you have is an incomplete knurl. This is nearly always caused by the knurling tool not being adjusted tight enough to generate a fully formed pyramid. They can and do change thruout a production run and anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

The fact that my die made it thru inspection simply means their inspection procedures are not 100% either at the machine or overall. This is not a good position to put your company that is purported to make the best reloading tools in the industry.

Obviously this is not the case.

Not being willing to accept that "Ship Happens" and at least attempting to circumvent it, is the mark of a very inexperienced or arrogant individual.

There is no way to improve if you are already perfect. There is also no way to go but down.

Whereas I will buy their stuff used for pennies on the dollar, I will not buy their stuff new simply because of their attitude, prices and the fact that their products aren't any better than most other tooling makers including LEE!

Ask me how I really feel?

Randy

[ShooterAZ]

This is starting to sound all to familiar. I had the same crappy customer service from Lyman of all companies. Thanks for the heads up on Redding/Saeco. On the flip side of all of this I have had nothing but exceptional customer service from RCBS, and also Dillon Precision and the CMP. These are the companies that will get my hard earned $$$. They have a true understanding of what customer service is all about.

PS: Order the 432 die from Buckshot.