9mm HP mold suggestion for a newbie

[jimmyUT]

Hi!

Just getting into casting and decided in addition to 12g, I want to cast some 9mm as well.

These will be used exclusively in a Glock

My Glocks seem to like 124g HPs the best, so i am looking for something close to that.

I know MP molds are top of the list, but I dont want to wait a year to start casting, so I am looking for something I can buy right now.

I was checking out NOE because they are local here in UT and they have a bunch in stock per their website.
The one that caught my eye was the .358 135 GR FN/ 128g HP

Does anyone have any experience with this mold and a Glock?

Or does anyone have any other recommendations for a HP mold for a 9mm Glock?

Thanks in advance
Jim

[MtGun44]

I suggest that a HP is an advanced casting issue and you will just be making
a lot more opportunity for problems.

Please start here for your easiest path.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

Bill

[jimmyUT]

Ok so I just read all 5 pages of that thread and its seems that most issues in 9mm involve bullet diameter compared to barrel diameter. Can you elaborate more on why an HP bullet will cause more problems compared to a flat or round nose?

[9-toes]

I think MtGun44 was suggesting that maybe mastering the 9mm should be your first concern if you are just getting into this. The 9mm has been the subject of many a thread here. Getting quality HPs that would perform is adding a whole different level of complexity.

[Bullwolf]

It's also a bit harder (and slower) to cast with a hollow point mould rather than a regular design mould.

It might be a bit more difficult to get the basics down. For example most new casters have a problem learning cadence and mould temperature. If the HP pin isn't quite hot enough it is very easy to get boolits stuck on it and this slows down your casting cadence, which in turn makes the mould run cooler and increases the problem.

Many folks master casting in volume with a regular design mould long before learning to cast with a HP design.

[captaint]

What Bullwolf said. It isn't the loading or shooting of the HP's - it's the casting process that's more difficult. I would heed MtGun's advice and learn to cast the standard boolits first, then move on to the HP's later on. They are more involved in casting. Also, there are numerous molds available immediately for solid 9mm boolits. Best of luck. Enjoy. Mike

[jimmyUT]

Ok sounds good. So I want to slug my barrel but cant find soft lead balls around .356 to .358. Will I have to find a md and cast myself?

Also should I only stick with TC molds? I would like to give NOE some business as they are local but he only has FN and RF

[MtGun44]

Strongly suggest that the TC is the shortest path to certain success. The RNs are frequently
more problematic fitting throats and getting to chamber properly in various guns.

I'd buy a 2 cav Lee 356 120 TC mold and setup to lube it and size to .357 and just try it. Slugging
is nice, but if you don't have the stuff to do it easily, just bypass the slugging and try .357 then
.358.

Do you have a micrometer? Caliper is not accurate enough to do this measurement properly.
And yes - my point was that 9mms can be a PITA in general so adding the extra cost and
slowness and difficulty of HPs brings nothing to the party except headaches in an already headachy
process. Learn to walk before running.

Bill

[jimmyUT]

Ok ill look for a TC but 120 is just too light for me. Any other heavier ones you would recommend?

I dont have a micrometer but I have access to borrow one, but ill start with .357 sizer die from lee and bypass the slugging.

[Houndog]

I agree with MtGun44 100% on his choice of mould! That is one of the most accurate 9mm boolets I've used AND it's it's an easy design to cast. My personal favorite load for it is the 356-120 TC CONVENTIONAL lube groove boolet cast of wheel weights and 2% added tin, sized to .356/.357 depending on the pistol, over 4.5 gr Unique in Winchester brass with the boolet seated to 1.050 OAL. This is a middle of the road load that has worked well in several 9mm pistols. ALL reloading precautions apply to the formentioned load!! You can substitute Bullseye, HP38/231,WSF and quite a few other powders WITH PROPER GRAIN ADJUSTMENT. The reason I use Unique is it's imposible to double charge a 9mm case with it, i use it in several other rounds, and I have a bunch of it.

One word of caution, Glock DOES NOT recomend lead boolets in their guns! If I were going to go that route I'd replace the factory barrell with one that has conventional rifleing!

Hope this helps.

[Sgtonory]

My G17 Will eat any 9mm cast boolit i use. Have tryed the Lee 105 SWC, Lee 125 TL but cast to small and do not use. The one i use now is http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?197744-MiHec-9mm-125-gr-four-cavity-HP-or-four-cavity-solid-6th-rerun

[jimmyUT]

Ok I might have to give the 120 a whirl. I have shot commercial lead bullets out of my glocks without an issue. Probably at least 1000. I just have a sequence that has worked for me. 3 mags of lead followed by a mag of jacketed. There has never been any significant additional lead fouling that I have noticed. I know a guy who has put over 25k rounds of lead through his gen 1 glock and its still going strong with no issues. I think all that talk has come from people using inferior or poorly made lead boolits. Glock also says I cant shot reloads, but thats not stopping me :)

[Hounddog]

Not sure what part of utah you are in but if you're ever in the pleasant grove area you can swing by and I can give you some lee 9mm boolits to try out. I have 120-TC, 124 round nose tumble lube, 124 TC tumble lube, and 102 gr round nose all cast up and ready to go. Would even share my Workup load data if you like. I just finished putting it all in spreadsheet form on my iPad so I can easily email it to you if you like. All these bullets run fine in my wife's G26 but I do use a Lone Wolf barrel. Never bothered to run any through the stock barrel.

Hounddog

[jimmyUT]

My G17 Will eat any 9mm cast boolit i use. Have tryed the Lee 105 SWC, Lee 125 TL but cast to small and do not use. The one i use now is http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?197744-MiHec-9mm-125-gr-four-cavity-HP-or-four-cavity-solid-6th-rerun

That mold is the one I am hoping to eventually work up to. I haven't been able to find any current open group buys on it though. I emailed Mihec to see if there are any but haven't heard back. I would like to buy one soon this way I have a good year of casting under my belt by the time I get it :)

[jimmyUT]

Not sure what part of utah you are in but if you're ever in the pleasant grove area you can swing by and I can give you some lee 9mm boolits to try out. I have 120-TC, 124 round nose tumble lube, 124 TC tumble lube, and 102 gr round nose all cast up and ready to go. Would even share my Workup load data if you like. I just finished putting it all in spreadsheet form on my iPad so I can easily email it to you if you like. All these bullets run fine in my wife's G26 but I do use a Lone Wolf barrel. Never bothered to run any through the stock barrel.

Hounddog

Im up in Sandy so not far at all. I will definitely take you up on that. It will be nice to try some before I get a mold. I really appreciate the offer and help.

[Hounddog]

Just send me a PM with your email address and we can hook up. You really can't go wrong with a NOE mold from Al. I've bought 4 from him and have picked them all up in person and he is an awesome guy to deal with. I love just shooting the bull with him and drooling over all his toys.

[smokesahoy]

That is silly saying not to start with a HP mold. You gotta break it in anyway, start with the one you want and remelt what needs it. I started with a HP mold, it's not rocket surgery.

[dragon813gt]

That is silly saying not to start with a HP mold. You gotta break it in anyway, start with the one you want and remelt what needs it. I started with a HP mold, it's not rocket surgery.

I agree. It's the same as people saying not to start on a progressive. Everyone is different so while you didn't start w/ a hollow point mold it doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't. It takes very little time to figure it out.

[Boolseye]

I was checking out NOE because they are local here in UT and they have a bunch in stock per their website.
The one that caught my eye was the .358 135 GR FN/ 128g HP

I won't tell you whether or not to start with an HP mold–I will say that I own that mold and like it a lot. You can also cast FP bullets with it–it comes with extra solid point pins. The bullets shoot very well in my p226–I've only ever casted HPs with it. There is something to getting used to casting with a Lee mold or two, however. It's not rocket science, but it ain't mowin' the lawn either.

[MBuechle]

I've got the Mihec 9mm mold, it was my first mold from him. I e-mailed him, heard nothing for 2.5 months and then got a Paypal request for payment out of the blue from him, a week later I had the mold. He shows this mold on his web sight so he must make it frequently or stock it. His molds need to be pre-heated on a hot plate but HP fill out is a non issue. I had more problems with lube groove / base fill out until I started pressure casting. 50/50 WW / PB with about 1/2% tin works well and expands beautifully. I now have 4 of his molds and joined a GB for a 5th.

Some pix

92676

92677

[MBuechle]

I'll add, the biggest issue I had loading cast for the 9 was bullet swage down by the brass. I had to make a custom powder funnel/expander for my 550B to get the case mouth diameter that I wanted, .357". My stock one left the case @ .353 ish and the bore on my PT92 is .3565 so I sized to .358 and the cases swaged them to .355. Actually, I can skip sizing as the Mihec mold drops about .359 with my alloy. If you use a swage die, you may be able to swap in a .357 mag expander spud and achieve the same thing.

[Menner]

well I am probably going to catch some heat here but I have a 40 S&W 401-175-Tc mold that was modified by Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com for hollow point it is one slick operating mold and is one heck of a lot faster casting than messing with pins. I already had a Lee 40 cal mold and bought this one from Erik and have casted nothing but HP's since I got it. and I was a brand new caster 1 yr ago although I do have a buddy of mine that has been casting for a long time to show me the way this thing started dropping good bullets after about 50 castings. I would check this site out I had the mold in about a week

[jimmyUT]

I've got the Mihec 9mm mold, it was my first mold from him. I e-mailed him, heard nothing for 2.5 months and then got a Paypal request for payment out of the blue from him, a week later I had the mold. He shows this mold on his web sight so he must make it frequently or stock it. His molds need to be pre-heated on a hot plate but HP fill out is a non issue. I had more problems with lube groove / base fill out until I started pressure casting. 50/50 WW / PB with about 1/2% tin works well and expands beautifully. I now have 4 of his molds and joined a GB for a 5th.

Some pix

92676

92677

Ok. That is absolutely beautiful and those rounds look devastating for non jacketed. On the 15:1, is that 15 pure lead and 1 ww?

[dragon813gt]

15:1 is Lead to Tin ratio.

I have a few of Miha's 9mm molds. Some hollow points and some dedicated solids. I cast w/ the solids more often. Even the hollow points have plug pins in them. I guess I don't see the need for the hollow points.

[jimmyUT]

HPs make for great zombie ammo stash :)

With jacketed, I find I get better accuracy with hollow points than round nose. Im very interested to see if thats the case with lead as well. I emailed Miha about the mold you have and I am hoping I can eventually get my hands on one... unless yours is for sale :)

[paul edward]

Ok sounds good. So I want to slug my barrel but cant find soft lead balls around .356 to .358.

You will only need one or two pieces to slug your barrel. Use pure lead, as the slug needs to be soft. Ask your muzzle loading friends if they have a few .375" round balls to spare. As a last resort, you can use any soft cast 38 caliber bullet to slug your barrel. You can increase it's diameter by gently squeezing it in a vice.

If you do not yet have a micrometer, get one! You will use it for the rest of your life. For a reloader, the micrometer is the first precision measuring tool you will need.

[Boolseye]

Couple shots of the NOE 358135 w/ expanded and unloaded slugs.9288392884

[jimmyUT]

Ok. I am just getting jealous now. :)

[Forrest r]

That is silly saying not to start with a HP mold. You gotta break it in anyway, start with the one you want and remelt what needs it. I started with a HP mold, it's not rocket surgery.

Absolutely!!!
There's a learning curve to casting with a hp mold but it will allow you to learn about casting/alloys/loads at an accelerated rate.

It's always nice to have more than 1 mold for any caliber and if you can cross use it for another caliber, that's even better. Don't be afraid to buy a rn mold if that's what you want. If you can't get a rn bullet to work in a semi-auto you might want to take up another hobby. I'm glad to see that you want to start out with high quality molds from an excellent mold maker, they can help you with a oal/crimp for the bullet/mold your buying. And there's always people on this website to help you with whatever your doing.

Pick out a good mold, turn your lead into boolits & enjoy yourself.

forrest r

[jimmyUT]

Couple shots of the NOE 358135 w/ expanded and unloaded slugs.9288392884

I just pulled the trigger on this mold :)
Talked with Al on the phone and he answered all my questions and concerns.

Very excited to start my 9mm endeavor

[dragon813gt]

I've been wondering for awhile how those pins worked. Now I know and like the looks of it :)

[MT Gianni]

I will be the foil if you don't mind. What will you be using for a lubesizer? What is your lube? How much alloy do you have stockpiled? What is your alloy? What kind of melting pot so you have? Is it thermostatically controlled?
9mm is difficult to get expansion with a hard alloy and hard to get to group with a soft alloy. This sounds like your first mold. I would buy a lee two cavity first and run it until you know how to cast. It will show you when the time to cut the sprue is, why you need to lube molds, how to get good base fill out and how to eliminate wrinkles. You can order one for around $25 and when you have learned the basics sell it here for $15. You will never buy a cheaper textbook. If you don't want to shoot the solids remelt them all you have lost is your learning curve project. I see many new casters that mess up a mold, I believe at least 30% of us do and it might be over 50%. Why do this to an expensive mold?
I also believe that most of your shooting at a range should be done with flat point bullets rather than HP. You can work on groups, handling and speed issues just as well and they are much quicker to cast even with an NOE RG mold. Find out the grouping difference. Save the hp for when you think they will be needed, but I would wager that is less than 10% of your total shooting time.

[jimmyUT]

Wow, a lot of questions, but here goes:


What will you be using for a lubesizer? RCBS Lube O matic 2 , .356, .357 size dies

What is your lube? Have some basic RCBS stuff to test, but was gonna get some carnuba red

How much alloy do you have stockpiled? 333 pounds right now and access to unlimited almost pure lead for $1 per pound (ingots)

What is your alloy? 200 lbs COWW, 33 LB SOWW, 80 LB pure lead, 20 LB Linotype

What kind of melting pot so you have? Lee 4-20 Bottom Pour

Is it thermostatically controlled? Manual Tel Tru Thermometer

9mm is difficult to get expansion with a hard alloy and hard to get to group with a soft alloy. This sounds like your first mold. I would buy a lee two cavity first and run it until you know how to cast. It will show you when the time to cut the sprue is, why you need to lube molds, how to get good base fill out and how to eliminate wrinkles. You can order one for around $25 and when you have learned the basics sell it here for $15. You will never buy a cheaper textbook. If you don't want to shoot the solids remelt them all you have lost is your learning curve project. I see many new casters that mess up a mold, I believe at least 30% of us do and it might be over 50%. Why do this to an expensive mold?
I read and follow directions well, hoping I don't mess it up :) Also, I plan on starting with the 12g buck and slug molds to learn the casting basics


I also believe that most of your shooting at a range should be done with flat point bullets rather than HP. You can work on groups, handling and speed issues just as well and they are much quicker to cast even with an NOE RG mold. Find out the grouping difference. Save the hp for when you think they will be needed, but I would wager that is less than 10% of your total shooting time.

I have shot 1000s upon thousands of jacketed round nose, flat point and HP. my best groups, accuracy, and consistency have been with HP reloads, using MG 124gr and Win 231. All I shoot at the range now is this load
I would like to see if this is the same with lead. I am not a professional shooter/loader etc, but I am thinking if my gun favors HP jacketed loads, maybe it will lead as well. If not, the NOE mold pins are reversible so I can cast flat points as well. I do plan on casting a mix of both to test.

[Boolseye]

That boolit's a tackdriver over 3.5 grains of BE. I think you're smart to start with a known shooter for 9mm, since some lesser molds can be problematic. I started with the Lee TL 124gr TC, which was good for my casting studies but not for early success.

[Bzcraig]

Ok sounds good. So I want to slug my barrel but cant find soft lead balls around .356 to .358. Will I have to find a md and cast myself?

Also should I only stick with TC molds? I would like to give NOE some business as they are local but he only has FN and RF

Contact a member here, fishman, he will send you pure lead to slug with real reasonable.

[jimmyUT]

That boolit's a tackdriver over 3.5 grains of BE. I think you're smart to start with a known shooter for 9mm, since some lesser molds can be problematic. I started with the Lee TL 124gr TC, which was good for my casting studies but not for early success.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am excited about casting with this mold and Al was very helpful when I spoke to him today. Ordered today and already got a shipping notice. Stellar guy.

Care to share any load data you have had success with for this bullet in FP and HP? I am interested in OAL and powders. All of my brass in 9mm is WIN head stamp and I use cci or win spp primers

[jimmyUT]

Contact a member here, fishman, he will send you pure lead to slug with real reasonable.

Thanks for the info. I will send him a pm. Much appreciated!

[Boolseye]

Care to share any load data you have had success with for this bullet in FP and HP? I am interested in OAL and powders. All of my brass in 9mm is WIN head stamp and I use cci or win spp primers
Sure. I've only cast HPs with it so far, so I can't speak for the 135 grain SPs.
for HPs, my OAL is 1.100. I pan lube and size to .358" w/ Lee push-through sizer. I use a regular 9mm expander plug in my Lyman powder-through expander die (basically an M-die). Loads include the aforementioned 3.5 gr. BE, also 6.1 gr. Blue Dot–1000 fps, 3.7 gr. 231–950 fps and 4.1 gr. 231–1050 fps. I have also loaded 3.7 grains of BE, which is at or near max in my manuals. I also use the Lee FCD, which eliminates FTFs and does not affect my accuracy negatively.

THis is what I mean about starting with a good bullet design–if you had bought the Lee TL 124TC, for example, you would have had a whole other set of problems to contend with–case swaging being the biggy. This boolit is more forgiving, and shoots straight with every load I've put behind it.
-BE

[Russel Nash]

My G17 Will eat any 9mm cast boolit i use. Have tryed the Lee 105 SWC, Lee 125 TL but cast to small and do not use. The one i use now is http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?197744-MiHec-9mm-125-gr-four-cavity-HP-or-four-cavity-solid-6th-rerun

It is a shame that group buy is already closed. :(

[jimmyUT]

Couple shots of the NOE 358135 w/ expanded and unloaded slugs.9288392884

What Alloy mixture are you using to get that expansion?

Thanks

[alamogunr]

I know you already have your mold and are contemplating sizing. When I started casting for 9mm, I bought 2 Lee molds: .356-120TC and .358-125RF in 2 cavity molds. After trying them as cast and lubed w/45-45-10 in a couple of Ruger P95's, I bought the .358-125RF and a .358-105SWC in 6 cav. The .356 was OK, but I just liked the looks of the .358-125RF.

These work very well in both the Rugers and a S&W .38Spec. Others may have a different opinion since my handgun ability leaves much to be desired(I'm working on it). I have yet to try it in my other 9mm's.

[jimmyUT]

I know you already have your mold and are contemplating sizing. When I started casting for 9mm, I bought 2 Lee molds: .356-120TC and .358-125RF in 2 cavity molds. After trying them as cast and lubed w/45-45-10 in a couple of Ruger P95's, I bought the .358-125RF and a .358-105SWC in 6 cav. The .356 was OK, but I just liked the looks of the .358-125RF.




These work very well in both the Rugers and a S&W .38Spec. Others may have a different opinion since my handgun ability leaves much to be desired(I'm working on it). I have yet to try it in my other 9mm's.

So no sizing down from .358?

[alamogunr]

I tried it w/o sizing because I didn't have a .356 sizer. It worked well with no leading, so I just used them as cast. I didn't slug the barrels either.

[MT Gianni]

Jimmy, I was away for a funeral. It looks like you have the rest of the set up done correctly, my next caution is to not try to duplicate your JHP loads with cast as you may need another powder. Copper-clad bullets don't mind being spanked out of the bbl. cast might need to be started with a gentler push. Good luck in your quest.

[jimmyUT]

Sorry to hear that.
I have some 231, power pistol, and hs6 to experiment with. Id love to try some unique or bullseye, but I think uranium would be easier to find than those 2 right now. I will start low and work up as always. Normally my glock likes mid range power, or I guess at least my hands are more accurate with that type of load.

[jimmyUT]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/11/9abu9ehe.jpgAs a token of my appreciation to all that have helped so far I would like to give away a free holster. Nothing special, a blackhawk nylon hip holster size 10 for a long barrel revolver. Basically new condition. Bought it for a 500sw but was too snug. Anyone wants it its all yours. Not sure if its the right place to post but as a new member I cant post in the swap and sell section.
Thanks
Jim

EDIT : Given away and shipped : Thanks!!

[Boolseye]

What Alloy mixture are you using to get that expansion?


I use approx. 50/50 range lead and pure. The range lead is around 10-12 BHN, so the final alloy is probably around
7-8 BHN. I'm not real finicky with my alloys, I always just eyeball it.

[jimmyUT]

Have you ever tried just pure lead with this mold? If so what kind of results?

[Boolseye]

Have you ever tried just pure lead with this mold? If so what kind of results?
Nope, never shot pure lead from this mold. I think they'd be OK if you kept them under 800 fps and had them sized and lubed right.

[jimmyUT]

What if I water cooled the lead? Only asking as I have a friend who asked me to make some for him, but he only has pure lead as he gets it free and doesnt want to spend money on ww to mix

[Boolseye]

I don't know the answer to that. Perhaps a more experienced member has that info. Anyone?

[alamogunr]

Maybe your friend would be willing to trade pure for WW. Lots here have trouble finding pure. Packed well in flat rate boxes would make the exchange easy.

BTW I'm not offering anything except the suggestion.

[Psypher]

Hi!

Just getting into casting and decided in addition to 12g, I want to cast some 9mm as well.

These will be used exclusively in a Glock

My Glocks seem to like 124g HPs the best, so i am looking for something close to that.

I know MP molds are top of the list, but I dont want to wait a year to start casting, so I am looking for something I can buy right now.

I was checking out NOE because they are local here in UT and they have a bunch in stock per their website.
The one that caught my eye was the .358 135 GR FN/ 128g HP

Does anyone have any experience with this mold and a Glock?

Or does anyone have any other recommendations for a HP mold for a 9mm Glock?

Thanks in advance
Jim

I picked up a Lee new style with hollow point conversion from Eric at www.hollowpointmold.com I'm quite happy with it, but you have to be gentle with it.