dacron fiber 30/06 ?

[Desertbuck]

This is my first attempt at using Dacron as a filler. The load consists of 35 grains of IMR 4895 180 grain Lee Boolit ww alloy with gas check. My reason for using a filler is I have been experiencing hang fires ever since it's gotten colder. Now on to my question as you can see from the picture my scale says 2 grains that is what I have found to be the amount of Dacron that will keep the powder in place. With no Boolit seated, I test this buy throwing it across the room until no powder shifted. I read somewhere that most of you we're using only 3/4 of a grain. Is 2 grains going to cause me problems? I'm not packing it tight, but I am packing it just till I get a little resistance. However I did salvage this fiber from one of my wifes dog old toys.[smilie=1: And I am under the impression that all stuffed toys are stuffed with Dacron fiber. I intend on using this in my m1 Garand.

[Desertbuck]

Sorry having trouble uploading the pictures guys.

[ShooterAZ]

The filler does not to be tight, just enough to basically hold the powder in place. I do suggest 3/4 grains. And for the Garand, I would start around 28-30 grains and work up. You will probably get reliable function (and best accuracy) at around 32 grains...maybe a little more. Once you reach this point, don't try hot rodding it any further.

[JSnover]

Since the problem didn't crop up until the temperature fell, maybe a hotter primer would cure it. I used Dacron in my 06 and my 357 for a little while but it really wasn't necessary, I just felt like experimenting with light loads. The best solution IMO is to use a heavier charge or a powder that is less position-sensitive. You will hear a lot of warnings against using Dacron filler.

[Larry Gibson]

I would suggest dropping back that load to 30 gr and work back up when using the Dacron filler. The Dacron filler will cause ignition and burn to be much more efficient so the pressures will go up. Not a pressure problem as such but simply the 35 gr load of 4895 under the 180 gr cast bullet may be pushing it too hard and fast for accuracy. Best to drop the load a bit and work back up. And a 3/4 gr Dacron filler inserted into the case correctly will hold the powder in place just fine for use in your M1. You do not need to "pack" it in. Just push it in until it is all inside the neck, let the bullet push it the rest of the way in when seated.

The 2 gr will not pose a "problem" as such but accuracy may be poor and if the wind is in your face you may find Dacron there also......:(

Larry Gibson

[zomby woof]

Your not fluffing enough. Use less than one grain.

[Desertbuck]

Thanks for all the information guys. I did find that the wight problem was as simple as me not fluffing enough. However I now have a suspension that I may have had a number of cases in this batch of ammo that had a small amount of oil used for resizing still in them. I never had a problem with charges low as 30gr of IMR 4895 till now. So I loaded up some more today with out any filler! For some trigger time tomorrow with the wife and her brother so I shall see If I have the same problem. But I am now haveing second thoughts using a filler all together.
As I was at my desk today working on this then the memory bank of mine gave my a crash course as to why I never did use fillers in this fashion. Stories of the dangers of using fillers -------with smokeless anyway and my gut is telling me not to do it. So Im not.

[GabbyM]

While it's always prudent to burn the powder you have on hand.
I'll input. Forget fillers. Just bust out some extra cash to purchase some AA 5744. Or some SR-4759 but they are discontinuing that powder so you'll be starting over in a while. Alliant Reloader 7 works very well at 28+ grains under a 180 grain bullet also. I've never fluffed that up with pillow refuse. IMHO we do not need to over complicate our lives with fluff in our loads.

[ShooterAZ]

Using the filler is no big deal, and used properly is hardly dangerous. It is kind of a pita though, I will admit. My M1 funtions fine with 34 gr IMR4895 with no filler. Never once had a hang fire. I'm using the 311299 200 gr boolit though. I just worked up until I got reliable function. Accuracy is quite good.

[303Guy]

I use Dacron filler for two reasons - to hold the powder in position and to hold the powder in the case should the boolit pull out. I have not done comparative tests though. I like slower powders that fill the case more and that can leave little room for the Dacron but it only has to prevent spillage.

[frnkeore]

At best, Dacron fillers are a crutch to mask a load that isn't optimum. At worst, you need to read Lymans recomendation regarding the use of it. No matter what anyone says about it's use, on this forum, Lyman remains the same and will not recomend it because of the dangers involved.

Frank

[Larry Gibson]

Lyman for years recommended the use of a wad. They have discontinued that and it was probably a correct decision. As we have discussed to great length, even though some fail to understand the difference and argue semantics.

In the use of Dacron here and in the sticky on the correct use of fillers what is recommended is a filler, not a wad. The Dacron wad, as previously recommended by Lyman, leaves a considerable amount of air space between the wad and the base of the bullet. That can be a problem. The Dacron filler as recommended here and in the sticky leaves no air space between the powder and the base of the bullet, hence the name "filler".

Along with the proper use of a Dacron filler is the correct use with a proper powder and bullet weight. Some here have used a Dacron filler with and inappropriate powder and bullet weight and have "rung" a chamber. Like everything we do in reloading use the wrong stuff and bad things can happen. Use the right stuff and it's perfectly safe. Understand why the individual that rung his chamber argues against fillers but perhaps he should put the "blame" where it belongs....on his own inappropriate use of the filler, "man up" as they say. The filler wasn't the problem, his incorrect use of it was. Simple enough to understand.

As to the Dacron filler use with 4895 in the '06 chambered M1 using the 180 gr cast Lee bullet. The use of the filler will most often provide much more uniform and positive ignition. That will most often result in improved accuracy. As the action functions in the M1 if there is a low load density then powder positioning becomes a problem. That can lead to hang fires as evidenced by the OP and to wide variations in velocity shot to shot. The shot to shot variation often is not noticeable at 50 or even 100 yards. But if shooting at 200 yards as in a reduced NMC match the wide variation will kill your scores. The hang fires can get you disqualified and thrown off the line if persistent and at the least they are very discerning and also kill accuracy.

I always used 4895 with 160 - 180 gr cast bullets with a Dacron filler in M1s for best results. However, I always preferred the heavier 311299 and H4831. With both the best accuracy was just over 100% reliable function.

Larry Gibson

[zomby woof]

Hang fires suck
Dacron works
Hang fires suck

[StratsMan]

Eloquently put, ZW....

[popper]

small amount of oil - Uhh, why? Hang fire or FTF? Dog toys = cheap Dacron. I've used H4895 @ 30F, no problem but haven't opened the jug of IMR yet. Is there a temp sens. difference? I've used just a tad to a lot in 30/30 with 2400, a lot seems to work better.

[35 shooter]

I use dacron fillers with powders ranging from 4759 to h 4895 any time i don't have at least about 85% case fill in the 35 whelen. Acurracy improved in every load dramatically. I've personally never found claims of certain powders to be position insensitive to be true in my rifle. I wouldn't personally use a filler with faster burning pistol powders. The filler does add pressure, so start lower and work back up. Never found it neccessary to use more than 1 grain of dacron with any load so far in a 06 based case.

Larry Gibsons posts convinced me to give it a try, it works, haven't looked back since. Have at least a couple thousand rounds fired with no problems.:grin:...Stick close to MR. Larry's advice....You won't go far wrong.