WFN boolets how fast is too fast for hunting?

[gutpile]

I have a 45 cal Lee WFN 300 grain mold......use it in some heavy 45 LC loads.... it works good on deer.......all of a sudden it hit me......I have a Savage smokeless ML it pushes a 300 grain barnes MZ @ 2120 FPS will a ACWW alloy or water drop kill whitetails at this kind of velocity or is it too fast? and yes i can slow down some like 1800-1900
but will the boolit kill quick at those speeds with minimal meat loss? sure would be nice to get away from the EXPENSIVE barnes and use something I make.....:grin:


Gutpile

[milkman]

I have been told, and my experience tends to confirms it, that lube grooves tend to cause the sabot petals to separate unevenly causing loss of accuracy. I could never find a lube groove boolit that was consistently accurate in my ML 2. If using Black Powder where you don't need as much compression on the sabot sides to insure ignition, then it might do well if you could find a looser fit.

[lostsixgunner]

I have been shooting a .44 cal LBT LFN PB cast from ACWW for a couple of years now out of my Encore ml rifle, and my 15" Encore pistol barrel with very good accuracy (2-3") at 100yds, pushed by 100gr. of Pyrodex.

This year I shot a buck at around 50yds. Quartering towards me. Clipped the rear of the right shoulder blade, and exited three ribs forward of the diaphram on the other, half way up his chest. He bolted at the shot, but only made it 50 yds. before piling up dead... It worked as well as most of my centerfire rifles do.

[btroj]

Go for it. I used a Lyman 457122 HP cast from pure lead in a sabot in my knight for years. It was like a can opener on deer. They shot great.

I wouldn't worry about the "too fast" thing

[winelover]

Don't expect "handgun performance" on deer, with the same boolet, in a rifle, carbine or muzzle-loader length barrel. You must account for the increase in velocity. Too fast, they tend to just poke caliber size holes, leading to long recoveries. I've had much better success, decreasing the velocity, in my 1984 carbine, than increasing it. Dead is dead, how much is too much?

Winelover

[44man]

It depends on hardness. There really is a point where too fast with a hard boolit will have a pressure wave from the nose that moves tissue out of the way. All you need do is change the alloy or make a soft nose, hard base. Go too far and you might as well put a grenade in a deer.
I can take one boolit, poke a hole, make it deadly or blow the deer to mush.
Treat your boolit and velocity just like jacketed is designed for. One bullet for deer another for moose.
With a sabot in a muzzle loader I would go soft, pure is always the best if it can be shot with accuracy.
Yeah, I like harder in revolvers but I love pure lead and the pure RB in a ML is the best ever.

[Bigslug]

With that boolit loaded to that speed, you've basically duplicated a .45-70 load for the modern lever guns. Flat nose slugs out of that cartridge are about as proven a hunting combination as you could ask for.

According to the FBI's wound ballistics geeks, hydrostatic effects don't really become apparent until the projectile is striking at at least 2000 fps. Loading at 2100 will get you extra range and penetration, but I don't think you'll see much difference in the wound channel from what you're producing with the handgun.

Sounds like a GREAT idea to me if the accuracy is there.

[MtGun44]

Anything above 6,000 fps is too fast.

Bill

[Loudenboomer]

Bill you forgot to mention @ 6000 fps gas checks constructed of pure unobtainum will be needed.

Kevin

[MtGun44]

Yes, and those GCs are hard on barrels, too.

Bill

[btroj]

Rail gun

[10 ga]

I've shot cast in my MLIIs for years and no problem. They are smooth sided. I use the 1-1 Plus some tin in soft-coww plus some tin and it shoots great and I'm shooting 2400fps. It is a nice FN but the BRP is out of business now and that mold not available. Basically it's a 300 gr. 452 cal. smooth side with a FN and flat base. Looks just like the Harvester "hard cast" sabot bullets. Performance is great. With a 45 boolit who needs expansion, it's already 45. Terminal performance has been great, I've done Texas heart shots and broken shoulders on the exit. In fact I've never found one in any animal I've shot, all exits. best, 10 ga

[GabbyM]

what's the bore diameter on this Muzzle loader?
Usually a paper patched hand gun bullet will work. It all needs to fit.
I'd jump some hoops to get away from plastic if that's what you're using. Soft alloy like 1:30 and some real black powder would help things.