Deer and a 357

[161]

I been trying to shoot a deer with my 686 6 inch. Had a nice doe within 7 yards broadside. Sent a Lee 158 TL with a plain base gas check 13 grains of 2400. When the shot broke she spun and ran. I sat there and thought to myself "she won't go far". I waited a little bit and crawled out of the brush pile I was in. No deer. Found the blood and tracked her as far as I could that night not a lot of blood but enough to follow in the snow. Went back the next morning followed it until the blood disappeared. Went back that afternoon with my dogs. Found the track again followed it until the blood was gone again and the deer went into property I didn't have permission to be in. tracked her over two mile all together. Don't know what happened. I know a lot of people say the 357 isn't big enough. But a lot of "people" been shot with one and people are bigger that deer. I did shoot up towards the shoulder hoping to anchor her right there. Maybe I shot to for forward.

[Ben]

You may not have severed any major arteries.
Possible the bullet passed through muscle only and exited with minimal internal damage.

It happens on occasion.

Had your bullet hit lungs and / or heart, the tracking would have been brief.

A well placed 357 Mag. with your load WILL anchor a deer.

Ben

[357mags]

Sounds like a bad shot. My buddy hunted deer with a Rossi 92 lever action, 357mag for years. Got a deer every year with it using whatever was on the shelf at gun shop or Kmart. 357mag is plenty big enough!

[gtgeorge]

I have put many deer on the ground with a 4" Mod66 and several loads and weights from 158-180gr and as far as 100 yards. Most ran but never very far except 1 I never found. As Ben said...."A well placed shot" Sorry for your loss as I know how it can be.

[NSB]

Over the last forty years I've shot over 50 deer with the 357 and haven't lost even one. The only deer I ever lost with a handgun was lost with a 44mag and that was because I made a bad shot. A well placed shot out of a 357mag will kill every deer it ever hits. Sorry to say, you may have made a bad shot. I'll ad one caveat: you'd be better off using something that is known to give some decent expansion at the velocities you're shooting them at. The 357mag is my favorite caliber simply because I shoot it the best. My favorite load is a 158g HP driven with a full charge of WW296. Lighter bullets don't penetrate well and heavier don't expand as well beyond 35-50 yds. Just my experience.

[RP]

I have used the 357 rifle on a many of deer it drops them fast and leaves a nasty hole. I have also shot one with my pistol first shot was on target second hit her in the jaw third skinned her side just removing the hair. So the tracking started lots of blood so tracking was easy my buddy was hunting the way the deer was headed so I called him and asked him to keep his eyes peeled. The deer kept going and going until I hear the sound of a rifle. I got a call he shot my deer trying to keep it from crossing the river. But the deer still leaped into the river. As my luck goes I called my sons to bring me the canoe. Then my phone rang again it was a buddy that was on the sheriff dept asking if I knew where my canoes were. So I called my boys to find out the trailer came loose and was in the woods. A hour later for a 15 min drive they showed up and we retrieved the deer. The first shot should have killed the deer but as it goes should and what happens is not always what we think it should be. Better luck next time. I also have to say the rifle speeds the bullet up a lot which translates into more damage or shock.

[GabbyM]

Well My late Uncles family full of Nephews on his wife's side. Have shot Illinois deer with 357 mag revolvers since it was legal in this state decades ago. They go down. Plus they cast boolits for them. Couple hundred deer down at least. What I have heard on this site is the 158 grain bullets will often not penetrate all the way through. While the 170 or 180 grain will. You took the shoulder shot so maybe it just got the front shoulder then stopped before it took out the far side. Well obviously it did as the deer tracked for two miles. I'd call it lesson learned and go for heart lung next time. Been there done that years back with a .440" round ball muzzle loader.

My off the shelf 357 mag bullet is the Saeco 180 RNFP-GC. There are better bullets out there but that's what I have. Then I have a custom 170 grain RNFP-GC. I cast it soft so it will expand. Anyway my personal opinion would be a 357 mag is a heart lung shot sized gun not a bone breaker. Those shoulder shots are not anything I'd take with any hand gun anyway. Not even a rifle as you'd loose all that good meat. I've read a stack of those hunting stories in magazines and the net also. 95% of it is fluff to meet a deadline to publish pages. Another shot you want to avoid. Is one I read in a magazine back in the late 1960's. was the best possible deer shot. That's in a tree stand above deer facing you. Shoot down through shoulders then traveling through heart lung area. Well yes maybe if you have a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets. Or even a 30-30. But a 45 caliber round ball muzzle loader on a 245 pound Illinois prize buck. He just runs off and you never see him again. Am real sure he was pissed off and hurt. Just not enough gun to do all that. My uncle found out a 20 gage shotgun hollow slug won't do it either. So don't think you're the first person to loose a deer.

If I were you I'd get a 180 grain boolit and load to just under super sonic speed. If a 686 will chamber the Lyman 358429 I'd go with that. Since I own the mold and it places more lead out front of the case allowing for more powder. My NOE copy weighs 177 grains. but it doesn't fit into my Colt 357 Magnum. You're looking for a pass through shot. Exit wound will leave a blood trail and a heart lung shot will have them down inside forty yards usually. Sometimes DRT for some odd reason. What I know is a 357 mag will put deer down better than a 12 gage shotgun with old style foster hollow slugs. Which isn't saying much. Illinois used to be shotgun only. Then we got muzzle loaders. Now we also have hand gun. If I were to ever hunt deer with a shotgun again it would be round ball in 20 or 12 gage or a solid slug fit to a barrel. I started using the 45 caliber Maxi in my Muzzle loader when they came out. The old 220 grain 45 does just fine. I've a 240 Maxi and 265 grain hollow based Minnie ball for it now. That little .440" round ball only weighs around 110 grains IIRC.

[GabbyM]

Over the last forty years I've shot over 50 deer with the 357 and haven't lost even one. The only deer I ever lost with a handgun was lost with a 44mag and that was because I made a bad shot. A well placed shot out of a 357mag will kill every deer it ever hits. Sorry to say, you may have made a bad shot. I'll ad one caveat: you'd be better off using something that is known to give some decent expansion at the velocities you're shooting them at. The 357mag is my favorite caliber simply because I shoot it the best. My favorite load is a 158g HP driven with a full charge of WW296. Lighter bullets don't penetrate well and heavier don't expand as well beyond 35-50 yds. Just my experience.

Your heavier than 158 grain may not expand well when using commercial off the shelf jacketed fodder. But we use cast boolits here. WE use an alloy that suits the velocity we run at. Just saying. Cast bollits are different than jacketed. In a hand gun they are usually better. If done with skill.

BTW congratulations on your hunting record. Am curious as to how often you can recall pass through shots with the 158 grain HP jacketed rounds. From a hand gun not rifle. I know a 357 mag rifle plain messes up a deer. Also brand of bullet. I know a lot of hunters tried stuffing those 357 bullets in there 45 muzzle loaders inside sabots here in Illinois. Big rifles shot them way to fast and they failed miserably. Not me. I stayed with big cast boolits. At 100 yards a 240 grain Maxi is still hitting inside the front sight bead. What happened to the guys with inline abominations that qualify for MZ season with there 158 grain plastic sabot pistol bullets is the same results I had with 440 RB at over 2000 fps. They blow up. Fail to punch a hole out the back side in the best case scenario.

[NSB]

Your heavier than 158 grain may not expand well when using commercial off the shelf jacketed fodder. But we use cast boolits here. WE use an alloy that suits the velocity we run at. Just saying. Cast bollits are different than jacketed. In a hand gun they are usually better. If done with skill.

BTW congratulations on your hunting record. Am curious as to how often you can recall pass through shots with the 158 grain HP jacketed rounds. From a hand gun not rifle. I know a 357 mag rifle plain messes up a deer. Also brand of bullet. I know a lot of hunters tried stuffing those 357 bullets in there 45 muzzle loaders inside sabots here in Illinois. Big rifles shot them way to fast and they failed miserably. Not me. I stayed with big cast boolits. At 100 yards a 240 grain Maxi is still hitting inside the front sight bead. What happened to the guys with inline abominations that qualify for MZ season with there 158 grain plastic sabot pistol bullets is the same results I had with 440 RB at over 2000 fps. They blow up. Fail to punch a hole out the back side in the best case scenario.

GabbyM, I know this is a cast bullet site but I still like to read the posts here and learn something. I use some cast with my 45-70 rifles and on occasion shoot some out of my 44mag. Over the years I've tried a lot of different bullets on deer out of my 357mag revolvers and have found the best balance is the 158g Hornady XTP HP. I rarely get pass throughs beyond 50 yds. Sometimes I don't get them at closer distances depending on the size of the deer. I've tried soft points and they usually exit up to 50-60 yds. For a couple of years (recently) I tried using a Marlin 1894 357mag. With that gun I'd get pass throughs even with the hollow points if I kept the shot in the ribs - heart/lung. I actually have a number of recovered bullets and it's interesting to compare the same bullet shot at 35yds to one fired beyond 75yds. There is a huge difference in expansion. When shooting deer with 180g bullets (I did that for several years) they penetrated well and shot well but didn't expand much beyond 45-50 yards. The ultra light bullets, 125g HP, just don't penetrate much at all but will kill deer if the shot is in the heart lung area. Any angling shots and the bullet just doesn't penetrate enough to get a good clean killing shot. I'm not sure what all this "acquired knowledge" will do anyone but it's always interested me to try different things to improve the outcome. FWIW, my 40+ years of passion with the handgun is starting to close. I discovered other interests a few years ago.....45-70 rifles. High Walls, Sharps, Win 1886. That's probably going to be my new, and last, go at learning something new with guns. I'm getting old.

[Teddy (punchie)]

I'm sure it was a lucky shot for the deer.You did all you could to find it, that is all anyone can ask.

I hit a smaller racked buck once with the 300 Ackley and it was down and darn scope only goes down to 6 power, thought I shot it in the neck as first shot in brush at 30 yds went too high and thought I broke its back. Two minute later it was up running right to area two guys were walking 100-125 yds away, So I could not shoot again. I followed him for .5 miles was getting dark. He was laying down twice, he got back up. Next day followed him old tracks and blood for one more mile laying down only once. Just was not his time.

Work cutting deer we found an arrow 7" long with tip. .5" away from spine completely heeled. That bow hunter I bit looked for hours , just not its time.

[2shot]

92079

357 in a M-66 4" barrel used to take this 9 point deer.
Lyman 358429 cast out of air cooled range scrap weigh in at 175 lubed and ready to go with hardness ~ 8-9
Enough Herco to get the velocity to 1150 out of my 4" barrel loaded in Starline brass with Rem SP primer.
Shot distance 42 yards laser measured
Lung shot complete pass through and deer ran 50 yards and folded up.


Yes the 357 is enough for deer

2shot

[mac60]

I suppose there are hunters out there who have never had a wounded deer they didn't eventually recover. Myself, I've had several that were shot with a lot more gun than a .357 mag. that I didn't recover. Two with a bow. If you hunt long enough, there's a strong chance it's gonna happen. At one time cartridges such as .32-20 were considered fine for deer hunting. 2shot's post is all the proof I need that the .357 mag. is enough gun. As mentioned, I think the boolit didn't hit the right spot.

[Wolfer]

A few years back while hunting with a muzzle loader a 8 point buck came by chasing a doe. I barked him to a stop and shot a little quick. The 50 cal power belt hit right behind the shoulder about a third down from the top of his back. He went about 100 yds and piled up.
On field dressing each lung had a half moon cut out of the top of it. A half inch higher and this deer would have healed up. A couple broken ribs would have been the extent of the damage.

A couple years later while hunting with my 45 colt I had a basket racked six pointer come by. 20 yds broad side but he was walking slow and I didn't have a very big window. I hurried the shot and knew when the trigger broke I had shot higher than I liked. He staggered at the shot but made two jumps forward behind some brush and stopped. As it was almost dark I sat still thinking I would hear him fall any moment but after dark I heard him walk away. Had some blood but not as much as I would have liked.

Since I was close to the house and I have a dog that will trail on a leash I went and got her. She trailed far enough that I decided she was on the wrong track and give up for the night. I've since learned this dog is always right no matter what I think. There's only about 10 acres in this brush patch so next day I covered every foot of it but no deer.
A week later my neighbor seen him out in a field chasing a doe.
There's a definite hollow between the lungs and the spine. I suspect it varies in size depending on wether his breath is in or out. Hit this spot with a big rifle and it will still damage something. Slow moving boolits maybe not.
I like to think if it was able to go 2 miles it wasn't mortally wounded so you might get another try later.
Just some random thoughts. Woody

[Jupiter7]

I've taken 2 shots at deer with a 357mag Rossi 92 using hornady 140gr leverlution prior to my casting days, this equaled 2 dead deer. One clipped the heart and one double lung both pass throughs. I kept it under 100yds. I'd have no qualms popping one with a 6" pistol and proper cast bullet(read as nice flat nose).

[45 2.1]

There is a world of difference between a rifle and pistol in 357 Mag in terms of power. The rifle can handle solids better than the handgun. The lesser the power with a handgun, the better you have to place your shots or use boolits advantageous to you. So far this year I have three kills with the 357 Mag out of an N frame S&W. The first was at 85 yards at a six pointer quartering away, it ran about 60 yards and had bled out will full penetration (about 24" of deer there). The second was at about 45 yards at a full grown doe broadside thru the lungs, it ran about 30 yards and keeled over. The third was an antlerless buck at 35 yards and was headshot.... it only traveled straight down. All of these were shot with a 140 gr. cast hollow point with a full load that gave excellent killing power inside the rib cage.

[161]

Thanks for the replies. I'm sure the 357 is enough, I had no idea that it might not punch through the shoulder at 7-10 yards. That's where I aimed and I never had the blood I would expect if the boolit made it to the lungs. If I would have hit lung I'm sure I would have found her in the close area. I hate wounding game.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Don't feel bad I have seen a lot of lost deer shot with a 12 ga slug , just this year we had one walk through the side yard of the house at lunch 3 of us went out after it , well it went down the road across the street and a 16 year old kid shot it with a 12 ga slug we hunt a shotgun only area , he shot it high and far back and basically got the tenderloins he had a little blood and hair were he shot it , then nothing it came back to us 150 yards and my cousin anchored it with a good chest shot now normally this would make it our deer but , it was the kids first buck so we gave it to him he offered us half the meat and we went with that , then we had to teach him how to field dress a deer and lone him a knife cause his was to dull but we got half the meat when he brought it over after dinner and helped him cut it up

when we were going to field dress it we could see a healed over hole not far from where the kid had shot it , this wasn't the first time this buck had been shot and walked away but the 3rd time did him in.

I am becoming a real fan of the double lung shot , I shot my buck this way opening morning with a 12 ga , but i like the complete lack of meat damage I think you could shoot deer with almost any cartridge and if you can get holes in both lungs they can only go so far without breathing

the neck is a favorite place to shoot deer in my family , and it works and it anchors them fast , but the double lung tap is a good tool also

[9.3X62AL]

These things happen--sometimes when the harvester does everything correctly, too. That is hunting. I know you feel badly; I would in your place. No one with a fair-chase orientation wants to see this occur, but it is one of the possibilities pending when we fire for venison. Don't spend a lot of time beating yourself up over this. Return to the range, continue your target work, and stay sharp.

[Jal5]

Amen 9.3 nailed it. These things happen and none of us like it, but it is part of it. Go back out there again.

[161]

I've killed a ton of deer with the shotgun and savage muzzle loader but this handgun thing is tough. Haven't gotten close to a deer since.

[white eagle]

not to worry these things happen
alot of very good stories here I needn't add any of mine

[161]

Well I got my deer tonight a little 6 pointer. I watched 3 of them walk into the corn food plot but they stayed behind some trees. Just before shooting time was up I put the sneak on them. Shot this one quartering away from me with the Savage muzzle loader. Seasons over Friday and I'm not going to be able to go out again. Maybe I'll try the late doe season in the southern part of the state. Still want to shoot one with the 357. But maybe next year.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm sure that seeing that buck drop to the shot made you feel a lot better. Glad to read that you went back out in the field!

Have a look at BruceB's Softpoint Casting Method, and read Bruce's posts through from beginning to end. If/when I hit the deer woods again with my 357 revolvers and castings, I will use a 180 grain round flat-nose gas check design I bought here on a group buy a few years ago; it will be cast as a BBSP; and I will likely run it in excess of 1400 FPS from my Ruger Bisley Blackhawk (7-1/2"). The Bishawk is a BEAST, and such Douglas Wesson-esque loadings won't trouble it a bit. I won't mention the speeds it can safely run Lyman #358156......if it was a film, the rating would be "R" with gratuitous recoil and accuracy.

[TXGunNut]

Good job with the frontstuffer, 161! Pressure's off, give the 686 one more try if you get a chance. Good luck and good hunting!

[roverboy]

Glad you got you a deer 161. Don't give up on the .357 though. I've killed 2 with mine. I shot both of mine through both lungs.

[merlin101]

I killed three deer with a 8"Dan Wesson in .357 before I found out it 'wasnt enough gun' HA!:grin: Like most have said shot placement is key. If at all possible I go for a head shot that way 95% of the time when you hit there down for good, no wasted meat either.
Since I was told that I've lost count of the deer that Dan's gotten for me, some chest shots and head.All we're before I started casting so I used XTP's on most but took 1or 2 with cast lead (Matt's).

[161]

I'm going to shoot the 686 this year, spend a little more time working up a load.Something in the 180 gr range. And more time scouting deer this spring, summer, fall. I like the gun it's found a home for life.
Thanks

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Not a CB, but this is what happens to a liver hit with a 125JHP. She didn't go far.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/ex500/SSS/Liver_2_zps08acc57a.jpg

[GooseGestapo]

Don't feel bad. I've had the same thing happen with .30/30 (shot three deer in 15seconds. Couldn't find two, third one had through and through perforation of lungs..170gr Sierra FP @ 2,200fps; ranges ~90yds), .257Roberts (100 and 117gr bullets), .257WbyMag (shards of meat hanging from surronding brush!), .35Rem (200gr Hornady RN, Lots of blood, deer was knocked down, laid for 20seconds, then got up and staggered off.. 200+lb deer with chest hit), and had an elk do the same with a .338/06 (200gr Hornady PtSpt), and my brother shot simultaneously another elk with his .308 w/150gr Partition, and he lost it too! (Wind blowing up canyon at ~15mph that we couldn't feel. Moved bullets ~8-10" to right of where we were aiming- 250yd shot per laser range finder. We both were shooting from rested prone position.

It "happens".... If you shoot enough deer, you'll loose one occasionally. You probably hit just behind the heart. Often the deer will move just as you shoot and you'll miss by 2-3" and it makes a huge difference if you don't hit bone.

[nanuk]

I shot a forkhorn with my 270Win, 150gr winchester factory JSP, at a paced off 32 paces.

I had over 2 minutes to line this feller up.

I had a perfectly steady rest (hay bale blind)

I had a perfect shot at the heart. (at that distance, by POA would be only about 1/2" below my POI, if not less....)

deer had stopped to my grunt, and wasn't taking any more steps until it noticed something.

EVERYTHING was perfect.

took the shot, deer ran off and we couldn't find it.... 45min later, it got too dark to find blood, so I came back in the morning.
Coyotes had cleaned it up that night, and I found the remains.... about 100 yds from the shot.

sometimes things happen.

[smkummer]

The first deer I shot with a 44 magnum handgun was not hit just right. The deer was close (under 25 yards from a tree stand) and I was trying to aim at the lower chest cavity/heart area; it sure seemed like I had a lot of area to aim at. The shot hit low and almost severed the front leg. Deer can still run far on 3 legs! I quickly grabbed the Marlin 94-44 to drop him running away. I definitely find it useful to practice on a deer silhouette type target just before hunting season!

[rondog]

I killed my first deer this January with my .44 Trapper carbine. While the hit was absolutely fatal (she was down and dead before I could even spot her in the herd), I feel my shot was still just a tad high. It cleanly took out both lungs, but was too close to the spine and tenderloins for my liking. Just an inch lower would be better IMO.

Like I said, this is my only deer, but as quickly as this one expired I see no reason to aim anywhere else on a deer, just a skosh lower next time.

Entrance.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/hunting/DSC_0019.jpg

Exit.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/hunting/DSC_0020.jpg

Inside. Just a little too high IMO, but certainly effective.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/hunting/DSC_0031.jpg

Used a 210gr. Winchester Silvertip handload.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/ammo%20and%20reloading/DSC_0008.jpg

Gratuitous poser pic.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/hunting/DSC_0013.jpg

I took this doe on a friend's property, in the pasture behind his house. This is his son with a buck he took last fall in the same pasture, right in the backyard. Just drop 'em and haul 'em into the barn. Awesome rack IMO. I "think" he used a bow, maybe not.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/hunting/DSC_0035.jpg

[Changeling]

Rondog you're right a little lower would have been ideal, however like everything in life, ideal is hard to come by lots of times! Nice shot, any way one looks at it though.

Really nice skinning job also, you kept everything nice and clean, it's a heck of a lot better than 80% of the ones usually seen, even by so called pro's.

One thing I might add is this: If you cut off the neck section, and use it in a BIG pot with water, carrots, onions, Cellery, potatoes, small can of corn, whole canned tomatoes (squished by hand), frozen okra cut into 1" pieces, // 2 or 3 bay leaves, pepper, garlic (preferably diced/minced), and some beef suit/fat from a chuck roast or whatever you will have one of the finest soups you will ever in your life consume.
I have said the above because most people throw the neck away, you've kept it so clean, it would be a shame to waste since it is so good.

For a first kill, you handled it in a perfect fasion, Congratulations.:bigsmyl2:

[M-Tecs]

Rondog

Great photo’s. I am going to steal them. I work with some guys that think that shot would be in the center of the lungs and not the top.

[rondog]

Rondog you're right a little lower would have been ideal, however like everything in life, ideal is hard to come by lots of times! Nice shot, any way one looks at it though.

Really nice skinning job also, you kept everything nice and clean, it's a heck of a lot better than 80% of the ones usually seen, even by so called pro's.

One thing I might add is this: If you cut off the neck section, and use it in a BIG pot with water, carrots, onions, Cellery, potatoes, small can of corn, whole canned tomatoes (squished by hand), frozen okra cut into 1" pieces, // 2 or 3 bay leaves, pepper, garlic (preferably diced/minced), and some beef suit/fat from a chuck roast or whatever you will have one of the finest soups you will ever in your life consume.
I have said the above because most people throw the neck away, you've kept it so clean, it would be a shame to waste since it is so good.

For a first kill, you handled it in a perfect fasion, Congratulations.:bigsmyl2:

Thanks! I didn't skin it, since I've never done this before I just helped and learned. My friend has a deer dressing area in his barn with two hoists, water hose, drainage slab, quite the setup. They get depradation permits for his property and run through lots of deer.

I don't remember what happened to the neck, we essentially quartered it and I brought those home and cut it up from there. My back STILL hurts. Next one is going to a pro.

[dkf]

I killed my first deer this January with my .44 Trapper carbine. While the hit was absolutely fatal (she was down and dead before I could even spot her in the herd), I feel my shot was still just a tad high. It cleanly took out both lungs, but was too close to the spine and tenderloins for my liking. Just an inch lower would be better IMO.

I have to get me one of those Trappers in .44, have wanted one for years. Had a 30-30 Trapper years ago which I sold because I wanted to go with a different caliber. Just a nice handy carbine. Nice pics.

[freebullet]

Sucks when ya loose one, I tracked a bow shot deer for 6 miles once and never found it. Congrats on the smoke pole harvest.

I used 125 gr jhp several times and it always passes through both sides. Sadly I haven't shot one with cast from 357 yet. I go for broadside only with 357.

[enoch59]

Sucks when ya loose one, I tracked a bow shot deer for 6 miles once and never found it. Congrats on the smoke pole harvest.

I used 125 gr jhp several times and it always passes through both sides. Sadly I haven't shot one with cast from 357 yet. I go for broadside only with 357.

Funny, I only go for the head. One shot, one dead deer. Works every time. I hate wasted meat.

[freebullet]

Funny, I only go for the head. One shot, one dead deer. Works every time. I hate wasted meat.

I am in awe of your accuracy and perfection. We can't all be you. I don't want to watch a deer run off with a mangled head so I wouldn't try that outside of 10yards or so. If 4 square inches of rib meat is going to short me I will shoot additional deer.