Velocities in the 300BLK

[nitrohuck]

Hey all,

So I am about to embark upon my 300BLK reloading endeavors and have a few unanswered questions that I would like to get straightened out before I begin throwing lead down range.

This rifle is using a 16" BBL 1/8 twist with carbine gas (specially drilled out to .111" for me, thanks again MAS Defense!) and I will be shooting supers pretty much exclusively at least to start.

With Jacketed rounds I have plenty of data, hoards in fact, even though the 300BLK is "still in the early stages" when compared to more established cartridges, but now I need to find out how I can translate that into cast boolit shooting to fit my hopes/needs.

I have no doubt that I will be able to get rounds working in the 1500-1800fps range, this seems do-able with RE-7, which I am going to be picking up tomorrow.

Here is my main question though: Who here has been able to achieve 1900-2200fps out of their 300BLK AR using lead??

For the most part I will be using cast boolits from 150-200gr in weight, ACWW, Xloxed and gas checked.

One powder that seems like it might be the ticket for this is 300MP (after reading about great jacketed performance on the 300BLK forums using boolits in the 150gr range), but I am curious to know if this sounds achievable using ACWW and Xlox (and a properly fitted boolit of course).

[fcvan]

Here is a link to a different site where the discussion is use of the Lee 312-155 2R, tumble lubed, and launched 2100 fps.

http://300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=82836

I'm waiting on my upper but have the mold, dies, brass, powder, and primers. When the upper comes in, its on!

[nitrohuck]

Well fcvan you and I are on opposite sides of the spectrum :p

I have my complete rifle, but no dies/brass/powder/primers, and I'm starting to get impatient with dry fire practice :)


Thanks for the link, unfortunately that thread's OP obtained the goal using the one powder I was planning on avoiding (Lil'Gun). I was looking at 4227, 300MP, AA1680 and perhaps 4198 as potential winners for 2k fps loads.


To begin with, I will have some fun with Reloader 7, it appears that 17gr over a 155gr boolit is a heck of a shooter load for more than a few people here (falls in the 1650fps range if I am correct?). For Boolits in the 185gr+ range I will probably drop that down to about 15gr starting loads and work up slowly. I do not have a chronograph (but will within the month) so right now my "standards" are going to be based off of pressure signs and accuracy. I have no intention of hitting anything other than paper with this rifle, and hope to do so with precision ;)

The only reason I even care about pushing +/- 2,000fps is because my range goes out to 550yrd with big ol steel plates at each 100yrd interval, and I would love to be able to reach out that far and touch those plates consistently, 1800fps has a heck of a lot of drop at 500yrds with a 185gr boolit!

[Jupiter7]

I'm a member at 300blktalk and haven't seen that thread but it is the exact same direction I went. I believe my current load is 15.7grs lil gun with lee 312-155 cast from range scrap, air cooled, sized .310 and lubed with Ben's red and alum. checked. I can put it on 1/2 sil's at 300yds but its a stretch with a 1-4x after that. In my 10" AR pistol its about 1.5" groups at 100yds. Don't be scared of lil gun, ive shot thousands of this same load through multiple guns without any appreciable wear or degradation in accuracy.

[fcvan]

Yup, waiting is the bummer, and nobody to blame but myself. I should have ordered the upper a while ago but I've got a month or two left to go. After I placed the order for the upper I bought the dies, a Harbor Freight Mini Chop Saw, the Lee trimmer, the mold, and a push through sizing die. I already make my own gas checks and have been powder coating boolits for a while. Making the brass was a snap and casting the boolits was a pure joy.

I've got 500 pieces of 300 blk made up and probably 1000 boolits cast coated checked and sized. I was able to score 8lbs of 4227 and am looking forward to actually making up some rounds. 4227 has been my powder of choice for 5.56/.223 with a Lyman 225-415 55 gr boolit. I've got most of my 5.56 loaded but am waiting on my 22 CheckMaker from PatMarlins so I can finish loading. Life is good but will be so much better when the 300 upper comes in.

Oh ya, check out this load data from Sierra for the 300

http://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/300-aac-blackout.pdf

[blikseme300]

I load 17.7gn of Reloder 7 under a 155gn GC boolit lubed using Tac#1 with excellent results in 3 rifles. I don't know the velocity but you can't get more powder in as it is already a compressed load. Uppers are 16" with carbine length gas system with 2 x Sota Arms HBAR SS and 1 x AR-Stoner light weight SS barrels. These rifles are quite accurate out to 200 yards and a number of feral hogs have been taken using this combination. Next up will be either a pistol or SBR. Did I mention I like this cartridge?

[emorris]

Hi fcvan. I was wondering if you could post a picture or two of your powder coated blackout bullets. I have the same mold and I finally gathered all I need to start powder coat coating them, but its been to cold for me to give them a try and just getting over the flu isn't helping much either.

I cant add much to the topic of the thread, but I called Hornady about their 125sst bullets in the blackout. They said that an impact velocity of 1750 is plenty.

[RichardSATX]

My Wilson barrel came in today. So I'm reading all things 300.

[Boolseye]

I, too, caught the BLK bug. Assembled an upper from component parts to fit on my lower, using the same BCG and charging handle but with a dedicated bolt to prevent uneven wear on the lugs. I've launched maybe 150 rounds out of it so far, working out the kinks–I use a cheap mandrel with cut-off discs mounted in my drill press to make cases–I get 10-15 out of a disc, which cost I believe $3.59 for 50. Maybe one case out of 50 has too much thickness where the new neck is made, and must be tossed. If the brass there is over about .0135" or so, it won't chamber. you end up with a loaded round that has a neck about .335", and forget it. they have to be around .333" or lower at the neck when loaded. Don't hold me to my dimensions, I'm working from memory. I have the Lee 312-160-2R, which shoots great over 16 gr. of RL 7, cycling the action in my 16" carbine easily. this platform is incredibly versatile, and digests every .30 cal bullet I've thrown at it. It's a hoot.

[blikseme300]

I, too, caught the BLK bug. Assembled an upper from component parts to fit on my lower, using the same BCG and charging handle but with a dedicated bolt to prevent uneven wear on the lugs. I've launched maybe 150 rounds out of it so far, working out the kinks–I use a cheap mandrel with cut-off discs mounted in my drill press to make cases–I get 10-15 out of a disc, which cost I believe $3.59 for 50. Maybe one case out of 50 has too much thickness where the new neck is made, and must be tossed. If the brass there is over about .0135" or so, it won't chamber. you end up with a loaded round that has a neck about .335", and forget it. they have to be around .333" or lower at the neck when loaded. Don't hold me to my dimensions, I'm working from memory. I have the Lee 312-160-2R, which shoots great over 16 gr. of RL 7, cycling the action in my 16" carbine easily. this platform is incredibly versatile, and digests every .30 cal bullet I've thrown at it. It's a hoot.

I learned the hard way that not all 223 brass is suited for conversion to 300blk. I now only use LC brass and no more problems.

[KYShooter73]

My .300 blows primers out with Lee 155's and 16.5 gn of Lil'gun. Go easy on that data.

[nitrohuck]

My .300 blows primers out with Lee 155's and 16.5 gn of Lil'gun. Go easy on that data.

This is why I was looking to avoid it... too many people report vastly different results... Not knocking anyone who has gotten LG to work for them, good on ya, but it has the most sporadic track record out of any of the 300blk powders from what my research has shown

[fcvan]

+1 on using LC brass for conversion as it seems very consistent and of high quality.

Somebody asked for some boolit porn :)

92059

Sorry, I only have one handy for the 300 so here's another I like to shoot a lot

92060

[fcvan]

Mr. Morris, my apologies, I did have more pics and just found them on my iPad. Here you go buddy, and by the way, I made those checks too. The short boolit is the 312-155 2R with the gas check shank cut off with the mini chop saw. As chopped, they weigh 140 grains. I will make some and powder coat the bases just to see if they fly. If they do well I might buy a second mold and have the mold block milled down. I might even get a plain based gas check maker for 30 to see if they fly better. At any rate, I can make 30 regular checks already. Here's the pics.

92062

92063

92064

[emorris]

Thank you frank for taking the time to post pictures. Maybe I can do the same in a few days.

[Jupiter7]

My .300 blows primers out with Lee 155's and 16.5 gn of Lil'gun. Go easy on that data.

16.5 is pretty hot. I stay under 16, everything is gravy.

The 125gr SST is a great bullet, I run them around 2200fps with lil gun.

[Green Frog]

Has anyone tried the flat nose bullets (like Lyman 311316) with gas check in the 300 B-O? I'd really like to be able to use that bullet if I could.

Froggie

[Jailer]

nitrohuck there is no way you are going to get a 185gr bullet to 2K FPS. Well you might but whether or not your gun survives it will be another story. I started popping primers with H110 and LilGun just shy of 2K FPS with the Lee 312-155 2R and that comes in at 160gr with a gas check.

I've had my best luck so far with H110. I've tried Lilgun, 2400, AA1680, RE7, IMR 4227 and just today loaded up some with H4198. I've also had good luck with the same Lee bullet tumble lubed with no gas check and 4.8gr of 231 for a nice accurate subsonic round. Unique at around 8gr has also shown some promise but more testing is in order.

Be advised those last couple of powders I listed are bolt gun only as they won't cycle an AR.

Best accuracy for me so far with all projectiles tested has been H110. Best velocity has been with LilGun.

Good luck.

[Jailer]

Has anyone tried the flat nose bullets (like Lyman 311316) with gas check in the 300 B-O? I'd really like to be able to use that bullet if I could.

Froggie

I seriously doubt you will get a bullet with that large of a flat nose to feed. I have the HM2 Harris mold and it has a .155 meplet and it doesn't feed well in my Savage. I gave a few test rounds to a buddy of mine to run through his AR and I'm waiting to hear back from him with a report.

[nitrohuck]

Jailer,

Thanks a ton for the info, you definitely answered some questions I had. 185grs @ 2000fps seemed like it would be quite a tough bill to fill. I was going to use the 185gr+ boolits for the 1400-1800fps work with RE7 I figured.

I have purchased a 314-129 5cav mold, however, and think this might be my best bet at reaching 2000fps.

[Jupiter7]

This is why I was looking to avoid it... too many people report vastly different results... Not knocking anyone who has gotten LG to work for them, good on ya, but it has the most sporadic track record out of any of the 300blk powders from what my research has shown
Actually my research is opposite, the reloaders of this newer cartridge are the issue. 300blk got pushed by AAC/remington pretty hard. Lots of AR guys want in but don't reload. They were faced with the facts: 300aac blackout ammo isn't commercially available on the regular. Also, suitable 30cal projectiles were not plentiful and expensive( especially 220gr SMK's ). So now we have guys who want high performing supers for cheap and cheap subs for their suppressors. Lots of new and inexperienced reloaders trying to load for a cartridge where data is sparse leads to experimentation and eventually disaster. We also just went through an unheard of shortage of ammo, powder, primers and projectiles. Complicating matters worse.

My experience has been that lil gun with heavy bullets(150+) offers more velocity at lower charges and less pressure. h110 works good for the lightweights at near max load density, in lower charges with heavies lots of deviation on the chrono. Aa1680 is good but to get top velocities you gotta crunch it, not my glass o' beer. I'm not saying lil gun is best, just that people are pushing this cartridge and we are reading the results, hopefully with a big grain of salt.

[Jailer]

Jailer,

Thanks a ton for the info, you definitely answered some questions I had. 185grs @ 2000fps seemed like it would be quite a tough bill to fill. I was going to use the 185gr+ boolits for the 1400-1800fps work with RE7 I figured.

I have purchased a 314-129 5cav mold, however, and think this might be my best bet at reaching 2000fps.

What mold did you get?

Getting decent accuracy with a lightweight cast boolit in a 8 twist barrel at 2K FPS+ is going to be tricky. Keep us posted on your results.

[ipijohn]

I'm getting 1950 +- 25 FPS with Lee 312-155 2R Powder Coated over 17.5 grn of 1680. I am shooting a 16" long 9 twist barrel on a carbine length AR. The load shoots at 2 MOA (by my 14 year old grand daughter and I ) which is good enough for our uses.

[blikseme300]

Going fast is fine but how is the accuracy? I only chrony loads after I have an accurate load and this approach has served me well over several hunts.

[nitrohuck]

What mold did you get?

Getting decent accuracy with a lightweight cast boolit in a 8 twist barrel at 2K FPS+ is going to be tricky. Keep us posted on your results.

I got the NOE 314-129 mold from a member here, have not used it yet at all, I haven't really had a need for lightweight .30cal boolits yet, it was originally for my buddy's AK but it looks like it will also be in need of some 300BLK testing