Compare and contrast, please,

[armoredman]

Which is easier, more effective, cost/time efficient, (relatively, of course), and gives a better HP boolit. A converted mold by Buckshot, or a Forster Universal Hollow-Pointer?
Thank you for any replies.

[45 2.1]

Which is easier, more effective, cost/time efficient, (relatively, of course), and gives a better HP boolit. A converted mold by Buckshot, or a Forster Universal Hollow-Pointer?
Thank you for any replies.

IMHO, I have found that if you actually cast them in, they are more accurate. I've had drilled hollow points (Forster hollow pointer) go way off point of aim on a benchrest with them. Cast ones haven't did that so far.

[felix]

Yes, Bob, that would be correct. BA has talked about that, remember? The scratching of the boolit by the lands specifically aids in the destruction of the boolit via energy supplied by the rotational forces. The analysis would blur into the same thought for the roughed out hollow point. ... felix

[beagle]

Casting's much easier. You can sit down in a morning and run off 4-500. With the Forster HP jig, you'll mess up occasionally and then you're stuck with a "plinker". If you screw up a cast HP, it can go back into the pot.

The cast HPs as Felix pointed out seem to be more accurate.

I'd go and have gone with cast although I own two or three of the Forster jigs./beagle

[leftiye]

Barring mold cavities that aren't symetrical (reads not all around the same axis at all parts of the boolit) - which same cannot be barred (oh, well). Then if you had a straight boolit, and a collet closer with the right size collet, in a lathe that has the tailstock correctly centered (use the right cutter and this won't matter), then drilled hollow points should be nearly perfect if a stiff, short drill is used. So the weak link is the mass manufactured mold cavity.

Not sure a Forster trimmer qualifies- its chief deficit however is the lack of a collet that holds the boolit. Collet holding a case has no guarantee that the boolit centerline is on the lathe centerline, so you drill holes off center.

[armoredman]

And the goofy thing is I found a Forster Trimmer at the pawn shop for $5, so, I guess I can try the Hollow Pointer. Even if it doesn't work quite right, it will still be fun to experiment with while I save up for a good hollow point mold. Thank you all very much.

[megasupermagnum]

I own the Forester hollow pointer, and played with it a lot last year. I even used that data to have one of my molds converted by Erik Ohlen to a hollow point. Yes, you mess some bullets up, which is frustrating. I doubt that every hole is perfectly centered with the Forester tool, I'd bet none of them are. Still, imbalances in the nose make next to no difference unless they are extreme. This is a direct contrast, in that a small nick on the base will send a bullet way off target.

I only used it on handguns, and at 50 yards my best load shot 3" 6 shot group average with the Forester tool, and the same bullet shoots 3" cast as a hollow point. Both are phenomenal. A rifle could be a different story.

I really enjoyed being able to alter the depth of hollow point with the Forester tool. It is amazing how easy it is to control how much they expand.

[armoredman]

How deep did you go on 9mm, if you don't mind me asking? I am using the Lee 124gr TL boolit.

244018

[megasupermagnum]

Holey cow, I just realized you asked the original question 12 years ago!

I never tried 9mm. I spent most of my time on a 148 grain as a solid bullet for 327 federal. I quickly found a lead/tin alloy to be ideal, and stuck with 20-1. I found the best performance came with a .150" deep hollow point. That put the bullet at about 144 grains, and I was shooting them 1220 fps.

I have heard guys have good results with wheel weights if you dilute enough with lead, something like 50/50 COWW and lead. For hollow point depth, I would start right at .200" deep on that bullet.

[armoredman]

Holy cow, it HAS been a while. Well, it took me this long to fall in to a Forster Trimmer for dirt cheap.
On the other hand - ow. The amount of energy it took me to hollow point just ten rounds to .166" deep was ridiculous. I think this will be relegated to emergency use only. NOW to save up for the hollow point mold instead, probably another 12 year wait...wonder if I'll still be alive?

[megasupermagnum]

What was giving you troubles? It can be a bit of a pain, and you do get some rejects, but for the most part the forester hollow point tool should be able to drill a bullet in about 5-10 seconds. Is there any chance it was a counter clockwise bit?

[Forrest r]

I have a lot of hp molds, single pin and cramer style. I also have 2 forster trimmers. Both have the factory hp setups along with me using custom made hp bits and 60* center drills to make hps.

The forster tool makes for an excellent test bed for bullets anyone considers hp'ing. Simply test away with the forster tool and then have the mold hp'd or look for a similar design that the mold is already setup to cast hp's.

Awhile back I wanted to test lead hb hp swc's in a snub nosed 44spl. The old ww fbi 38spl load used such a bullet.
https://i.imgur.com/KNwvR1D.jpg
I have a mold that casts hbswc's for the 44cal's (429422). I ued a forster hp tool with a 60* center drill to make hp's in that cast hbswc.
https://i.imgur.com/FTFbMo6.jpg
Interestingly enough both ends of that bullet expanded, recovered from wetpack.
https://i.imgur.com/Swqedh0.jpg
That recovered bullet pictured above was from a 1000fps+ load.
https://i.imgur.com/fo57jjU.jpg

Myself I like to use hp molds but the forster hp tool can be extremely useful.

[luvtn]

I am not interested in the HP aspect, but I do have a Charter Bulldog with the 2.5 inch barrel. Generally, I shoot 240 gr LSWC with 14.5 grs 2400 for my best accuracy. How accurate are your 200gr boolits with the 16 hrs of 2400?
luvtn

[fredj338]

I think by far a mold designed to cast HP will give more uniform results. Any drilling op still has a user error built into it.

[megasupermagnum]

I think by far a mold designed to cast HP will give more uniform results. Any drilling op still has a user error built into it.

The only error in the Forester tool is that it indexes off of the case head. This causes the hole to start every so slightly off center. User error is taken out of the equation. In actual practice, accuracy is not effected at all.

[armoredman]

What was giving you troubles? It can be a bit of a pain, and you do get some rejects, but for the most part the forester hollow point tool should be able to drill a bullet in about 5-10 seconds. Is there any chance it was a counter clockwise bit?

The bit was correct, it's most likely the fact that the lead is 92/6/2 from Seafab, Lyman #2 style, IIRC, towel dropped. Also, they are powder coated, so I could see the initial bite being a wee bit tougher...but that bit just did not want to bite, and when it did, the excavated lead would jam up in the bit. I wish 5-10 seconds, was more like 5 minutes per, cranking hard. I have some other non PC bullets to try, specifically some MBC IDA #6 125 grainers, but they are BH18, might be more of the same. Not experienced enough as a caster to know exactly what to add to the metal to thin it enough for a good bite - ideas? I am also smart enough to think maybe I was doing something wrong. I followed all the directions I could find on line.

[15meter]

Never tried to drill hollow points, nor powder coated lead but every time I have drilled lead, the drill bit cut almost instantly, to the point of almost self feeding.

I'd look at trying a new/different drill bit. I've never used lube when drilling lead, but that might help if it's the powder coating that is sticky. Lead usually comes up following the drill bit grooves in long continuous chips.

May even just take that bit and try to drill an ingot and see how it works.

And I like archaeological dig threads:popcorn:

[RED BEAR]

I have had good luck drilling them on a drill press but for ease i would have to say casting them is easier.

[armoredman]

I sent to Forster;"I purchased the 1/8" Universal Hollow Pointer from MidwayUSA.com and find the drill bit is VERY hard to use, takes several minutes to drill into a cast 9mm bullet, metal is 92/6/2 from Seafab and powder coated. I was told that might be a bad drill bit and I was recommended to contact your company abut that. Can you assist or tell me what I might be doing wrong? The drill bit bites very poorly and has to be pushed with much strength to grind into the bullet. I hollow pointed just 10 rounds and am not looking forward to ever doing that again, unless there is a solution/something I am doing wrong that I can correct? "

Forster said, "Thanks for contacting us about this very unusual issue, what i believe would be best is is the bit was returned to us for our review, if possible with a couple samples of the bullets you are using. This can be sent to;" and the address.

I wanted to know if I was doing something wrong. It will cost almost as much to send it back than to just buy a new one. Might just send back the whole thing and say keep it, I'll save up for a mold from a different manufacturer. BTW, I had to push so hard to get the bit to bite that the crank and the knob were actually shaving aluminum off each other, had to over lube them.

[armoredman]

Never tried to drill hollow points, nor powder coated lead but every time I have drilled lead, the drill bit cut almost instantly, to the point of almost self feeding.

I'd look at trying a new/different drill bit. I've never used lube when drilling lead, but that might help if it's the powder coating that is sticky. Lead usually comes up following the drill bit grooves in long continuous chips.

May even just take that bit and try to drill an ingot and see how it works.

And I like archaeological dig threads:popcorn:

Hmm, that's a good idea, so here goes. Chunk is certified bullet metal from Seafab Metals Co, 92/6/2. Dimple shown is one full MINUTE of drilling, pushing hard. Bad picture of one of ten HP 9mm rounds, after 5 minutes of grinding.

[megasupermagnum]

For whatever reason, that drill bit is *****. I don't care how hard the lead is, it should drill like butter. 5-10 seconds is about what it should take. I don't think there was anything special about the drill bit, maybe just pick one up from the hardware store.

[15meter]

Hmm, that's a good idea, so here goes. Chunk is certified bullet metal from Seafab Metals Co, 92/6/2. Dimple shown is one full MINUTE of drilling, pushing hard. Bad picture of one of ten HP 9mm rounds, after 5 minutes of grinding.

Gotta ask a silly question, did you try reversing the rotation direction?

Do you have just a hand drill and standard small (1/8"ish) to try on the block of lead?

I'd just try to drill a block of lead to get the feel of it if you've never done it before.

[armoredman]

Well, what I DID do is notice I am a complete and utter idiot - I somehow missed that there is a FLAT SPOT on the drill bit shank, where the adjustment screw is supposed to sit, so what was most likely happening is the bit was actually spinning and cutting very little. Yeah, if I had the common sense God gave a door knob I might have figured that out a while ago...So, with the bit properly set things got better. Now STILL not fantastic like everyone said, but it was less than a minute to drill a deep hollow point. Now to TEST them...

[armoredman]

And now that I figured out a few ore tiny tweaks, all of a sudden things are working well. These 20 MBC IDP #6 boolits were done in about 20 minutes. The holes are only .125 inch deep, 1/8", and BH 18, so I doubt there will be much expansion, if I can set up some water jugs, depends on which range I get to use. The cavities in the Lees are .186 deep, somewhat near 3/16", and might work better, but also cast hard alloy. If I can't set up jugs, I can at least do some rested shooting with the hollow pointed ones and examples from the donor batches to see if there are serious accuracy changes, especially with the fact that the cavities are NOT centered on most of them...


245257

Yes, all that lovely excavated lead wire went right into the lead pot - recycling is awesome.

[gwpercle]

Holey cow, I just realized you asked the original question 12 years ago!

I never tried 9mm. I spent most of my time on a 148 grain as a solid bullet for 327 federal. I quickly found a lead/tin alloy to be ideal, and stuck with 20-1. I found the best performance came with a .150" deep hollow point. That put the bullet at about 144 grains, and I was shooting them 1220 fps.

I have heard guys have good results with wheel weights if you dilute enough with lead, something like 50/50 COWW and lead. For hollow point depth, I would start right at .200" deep on that bullet.
Not only that but the OP had 1087 post 12 years ago and today still shows 1087 post !!!!! That's Freaky....
I should be hearing the Twilight Zone music...are we in a Time Warp or what !
Gary

[armoredman]

I thought The Time Warp was a bad song from the late 70s...

[megasupermagnum]

You do have the centering jig, correct? I never got perfect results, but not bad. Some of those hollow points look to be fairly far off for having used the jig. I still doubt they will have a meaningful impact on accuracy in close ranges. I have no idea what might happen 100 yards and beyond.

[megasupermagnum]

Just so we are on the same page, this is the jig I'm talking about... https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/hollow-pointer-kits/

You have the drill bit figured out, the jig has a coned end that self centers on the tip of the bullet. Hold the jig tight to bullet to keep it centered. The drill bit goes through the hole, and does a decent job of centering on the nose of the bullet.

If I didn't already mention it, it works just fine with a hand crank, but is a lot easier with an adapter and a hand drill.

[armoredman]

No joy, current loading, the Truncated Cone round was drilled shallow and zipped through 5 water jugs without slowing down. The 124 gr Lee homecase bullet showed that it WAS slowing by the time it left the fifth water jug, but it still zipped on to parts unknown.
I will try that bullet not powdercoated, and drilled slightly deeper. Shooting at paper targets showed no appreciable loss of accuracy, and the hollow pointed 124 Lees might actually be slightly MORE accurate.
All rounds fired through CZ P-10S at 10 yards, photo of jugs before setup, and prior to phone battery dying...oops. Yes, that's a full size P-10F magazine in it...long story....

245310

So, experimentation continues, but the off centeredness off the cavities might be somewhat of a problem. Yes, the reason I continue with this thing is that I cannot afford a hollow point mold and this basically fell in my lap...plus...why not?;)[smilie=w:

[armoredman]

Just so we are on the same page, this is the jig I'm talking about... https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/hollow-pointer-kits/

You have the drill bit figured out, the jig has a coned end that self centers on the tip of the bullet. Hold the jig tight to bullet to keep it centered. The drill bit goes through the hole, and does a decent job of centering on the nose of the bullet.

If I didn't already mention it, it works just fine with a hand crank, but is a lot easier with an adapter and a hand drill.

Yes I bought the whole kit from MidwayUSA, which apparently was sans instructions. I am using the centering jig, and it works OK, but fills up with lead shavings quickly, fouling the drill bit. So, I use the jig to center as best as I can, then remove and let the bit go to work in the existing cavity.

[megasupermagnum]

With as hard of alloy as you are using, I doubt you will be able to get expansion. Even at COWW levels, about 12 BHN, expansion usually means fragmenting. It could be a wicked combo if that's what you are after. Lead/tin alloy is the toughest, but I've seen a number on this site get good expansion with some antimony alloys. Usually its soft range scrap or COWW mixed 50/50 with lead.

[armoredman]

"COWW"? Common wheel weight lead? I have only one lead source, 92/6/2 local at Seafab. I DO have some oddball lead I was gifted, but no clue of the mix nor do I have a BH tester to check.
I will ask - what would you recommend adding to the melt to soften it up a bit? I still intend to PC the Lees, to cut down on leading, but there is an opportunity to, to practice PC everywhere BUT the boolit tip.

[megasupermagnum]

COWW is clip on wheel weight. The best thing to add to your hardball alloy is pure lead. Stick on wheel weights are very near to pure. You are going to want to mix that hardball alloy 3 to 1 with pure lead at least, 4 to 1 even better. You have to buy pure lead to get true pure lead, but it isn't needed. SOWW is the easiest source, and is very close to pure. Pipe lead is generally very soft. Roof flashing is almost pure lead. X ray dentist lead is soft.

[armoredman]

Ah, thank you for the clarification, much appreciated. So three parts pure lead with 1 part alloy.

[megasupermagnum]

Ah, thank you for the clarification, much appreciated. So three parts pure lead with 1 part alloy.

At least. 3:1 lead to hardball would put you approximately at a COWW alloy. It can expand, but usually not with desirable results. If driven fast enough with a deep hollow point, you can make frangible bullets, if you are into that. Look at Tar Heel's first picture.

I'm going to guess your bullet as a hollow point is going to run about 115 grains. Load data shows that middle of the road with that weight in that gun should be 1,100 fps. Best results are going to come with 30:1 or 20:1 alloy. To get your hardball alloy down to that hardness, you are looking at mixing 5:1 or 6:1 with lead. A better option would be to trade some alloy.

[David2011]

Only limited experience with drilling hollow points but I’ve used center drills. They’re short, stiff and intended for making a starting place for twist drills.