Need help for Rossi 92 44mag

[RMK*]

Hello all,
I picked up this new rossi 92 in 44mag 24 inch octagon barrel recently. The main use will be offhand shooting at paper, not hunting. Picked up some 240 grain SWC bullets and loaded with unique. Results were terrible, much leading and no accuracy at all. I did try loading up and down with powder and different primers, but no change. Got some other lead bullets from reputable source in 215gr and same results. Then tried all this again with H 110 and got pretty much the same. My shooting friend had a few 240gr jacketed hollowpoints, so I tried 9 of them with H 110 and put 8 shots into a 1.75 High by 2.75 wide group at 100 yds. on the first try. So I am pleased to see the gun will shoot and I need to figure out what kind of lead bullet I need as I plan on casting my own. I cast a lot of bullets for my other guns so no problem there. The cast bullets I did try were .429 and when things didn't work out I decided to slug the bore and came up with .4315 . I don't have a 44mag pistol and have never loaded this calibler before , so instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. I thought I would ask if anybody has suggestions for good bullet style, dia mold, sizer size to recommend? Also can anyone tell me what kind of accuracy to expect with one of these shooting lead if all things are working right.

thanks
Rudy

[C. Latch]

The cast bullets I did try were .429 and when things didn't work out I decided to slug the bore and came up with .4315

Shooting bullet that are .0025 undersized is almost guaranteed to produce the (bad) results you experienced. You'll have to find some bullets cast to .433 or maybe .432 (or cast larger and sized down) to even begin to expect decent results.

[singleshot]

Rudy, your results are typical of too small a boolit. Many 44 rifles measure between .430 and .432. Get any Lee mold with no gas checks you like. Since you'll only be punching paper, there's no need to waste money on gas checks or accuracy without. It's extremely easy to open them up a bit if it's casting too small. I put bore lapping compound on a cast boolit that dropped from that mold, put a screw into the center of the nose, put the boolits back in the mold and close, turn the boolits in the mold 10 rotations each. Clean the mold and drop new boolits and measure. I've had great success with the Lee 240 tumble lube, SWC without any mods for my 44 mag rifles. Once you get a boolit that fits the bore, it's hard to find a load it won't like. Unique should fill the bill nicely for punching paper, save your H110 for other uses.

Good luck!

[singleshot]

Oh, I forgot to add, you'll want a boolit at least .001 over, so based on your measurements .4325 to .433 should work well.

[labradigger1]

I have a 92 44 in 16", i never slugged it but it shoots the same boolits as my SRH, 429244 and 44-245kt sized @ .429, zero leading in either gun. The key is fit, if you are leading you are either undersized or too soft an alloy. Find a mold that casts bigger than your slug.
As for accuracy i can hit a 4" steel gong offhanded @ 40 yards all day long. I have not shot it 100 yds yet. I hear most 92's shoot high anyways. When i bought mine it had a bent front sight and i changed it as soon as i got home w/ one i had in my "sight" box and it was perfect. Windage and elevation was already good.
Size is the key, try one thousandth over your slug and i bet your leading and fliers go away. Stay @ it, they are a hoot to shoot.
Lab

[RMK*]

thanks guys, All the leading caused me to suspect undersized bullet.

[Larry Gibson]

RMK

In reality there is no reason a .429 cast bullet should not shoot well in your rifle. I also have shot many a cast bullet, commercial cast and my own, sized at .429 and .430 through Rossi's and Winchester lever actions w/o leading and with very good to excellent accuracy.

You have two problems;

1st the commercial bullets are hard cast and have a hard wax lube....right? If so then the real culprit there is the hard wax lube. That is the cause of most of the leading. If you have or can get some LLA then TL the bullets (per the instructions) and let them completely dry and try them. It’s best to wash the hard wax off first. I use Coleman fuel to do that by putting the bullets in a coffee can and just cover with the fuel. Let soak for 45 minutes then swish the bullets about and pour the fuel off. Then air dry the bullets on an old bath towel. Fold the towel over the bullets lengthwise and swish the bullets back and forth a few times. Then lube with the LLA.

Another choice for commercial cast bullets is to order some .430 sized bullets from Desperado Cowboy Bullets (www.cowboybullets.com) . They cast them soft out of 20-1 alloy and use a good softer lube on them. I recommend them highly as I have shot a lot of them. While I prefer their 200 gr bullets the 240 gr bullets are excellent also. They also are true FB’d bullets which is also better for accuracy.

2nd problem is you are probably pushing the bullets too fast in the rifle. I’ve found for best accuracy with hard cast commercial handgun bullets in carbines/rifles is velocities must be kept under 1200 fps for the best accuracy. Unique is an excellent powder in the 44 with 240 – 250 gr cast bullets but the problem is most “starting loads” listed in manuals/data for it produce too much velocity in rifles. I suggest, with 240 – 250 gr cast bullets you try 8 – 8.5 gr of Unique. That will put the bullets in the 1100 – 1200 fps range and accuracy (if you solve the lube problem) will be much improved. If you decide to try the 200 gr bullets then I use Bullseye powder and suggest 6.5 – 7 gr.

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

Too hard and too small. Cast with ordinary air cooled clip on wheel wt alloy and size to .431 or .432 at least and
you will find success. You MIGHT even improve those undersized lead boolits with 10 gr of Unique, it whacks the
boolit hard enough (fast pressure rise) to often-times obturate and work if initially undersized. Depending on how
many of the .429s you have, it may be worth testing. Not the ideal method, but often works.

My Browning 92 in .44 Mag will not feed the Keith designs at all, too long for action- it was designed for .44-40 with
LOA about 1.59 max and the 429421 is longer, not home to check the LOA of a .44 Mag with 429421, probably about
1.62 or more. In any case, it will not cycle thru the action. Need shorter boolit or short brass may work, try the
Keith with .44 Spl case.

Bill

[singleshot]

RMK
In reality there is no reason a .429 cast bullet should not shoot well in your rifle.
Larry Gibson

Mr. Gibson, I'll give you 4 reasons: boolit too small, boolit too hard, inappropriate lube, too hot or too slow of a pressure rise to consistently obturate the projectile. (Good call, BTW, on the hard boolits, I'd forgotten about that since I haven't personally fired any commercial hard-cast.)

Granted, you've given some expedient solutions for the OP to use his current stable of boolits, but when the projectile fits the throat/forcing cone and barrel, I have to WORK HARD at it to get my 44 mag rifles to lead and shoot poorly, regardless of BHNs from 8 to 35. (Yes, there is a 44 mag rifle with a forcing cone.)

On the other hand, maybe I simply have the proverbial "Midas touch" with the 44 mag (my favorite caliber), so YMMV. :-)

Carry on!

[RMK*]

thanks for the reply guys. The bullets I tried are hard, 22bhn according to my cabin tree lead tester. I did try 7 gr of unique and up to 10 but the spread just got worse. They do have a very hard lube on them. I want to try softer and larger dia. bullets next. And softer lube.

Rudy

[44man]

91622Too bad RD doesn't sell molds anymore, I have his 265 gr for my revolver and it casts the right diameter and is super accurate.
Hard lube is just not good for much. Even working with my 30-30 Marlin, Felix and Ben's Red both work great and I am shooting max jacketed loads up to 2400 fps or more.
I recover a lot of boolits and someone was here shooting store bought, this is what I found. Half the groove was still full of lube.

[Pb2au]

I think changing to a softer lube and perhaps a slightly bigger boolit will bring you to joy. Also, if you have some access to IMR 2400, that powder can get along well with the 44 Mag.
Good luck!

[mdi]

I have a '92 in .44 magnum that took me about 2 weeks to figger out. Rossi Pumas are known for having .44 caliber barrels that are on the outside edge at .432", and up. You need to slug your barrel. My Puma's barrel runs about .432"-.4325". My Puma won't feed SWC, which is no problem since I got a couple Ranch Dog molds, one 265 gr RNFP that drops at about .433"-.434" with my alloy and a 240 gr. RNFP that comes outta the mold at around .433"+ a hair. I size all my Puma bullets (WW air cooled alloy) to .433" (Lee sizer opened up to .433"+) and they all feed, and shoot fine with very little leading. I have purchased some LNFP .44 cal. bullets, plain base, from Beartooth Bullets sized to .432" and they shot pretty good, but with a trace of leading. Shooting any lead bullet, size/fit is the priority...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hello all,
I picked up this new rossi 92 in 44mag 24 inch octagon barrel recently. The main use will be offhand shooting at paper, not hunting. Picked up some 240 grain SWC bullets and loaded with unique. Results were terrible, much leading and no accuracy at all. I did try loading up and down with powder and different primers, but no change. Got some other lead bullets from reputable source in 215gr and same results. Then tried all this again with H 110 and got pretty much the same. My shooting friend had a few 240gr jacketed hollowpoints, so I tried 9 of them with H 110 and put 8 shots into a 1.75 High by 2.75 wide group at 100 yds. on the first try. So I am pleased to see the gun will shoot and I need to figure out what kind of lead bullet I need as I plan on casting my own. I cast a lot of bullets for my other guns so no problem there. The cast bullets I did try were .429 and when things didn't work out I decided to slug the bore and came up with .4315 . I don't have a 44mag pistol and have never loaded this calibler before , so instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. I thought I would ask if anybody has suggestions for good bullet style, dia mold, sizer size to recommend? Also can anyone tell me what kind of accuracy to expect with one of these shooting lead if all things are working right.

thanks
Rudy

Look for a used Ranch Dog Mold (423-265-RF). They come up in the sellin' and Swappin' section fairly often,,,but they go fast, You could also try the WTB section.

This mold is designed for Lever action rifles, The Round nose, Flat point is the best feeding design for a lever gun. Both Marlin and Rossi seem to have Larger bores, that is why RD spec'd Lee to make the molds to drop boolits at about .432 depending on alloy and your technique. I have two RD molds, both are the TL design and both are 265gr, one is plain based and the other is a GC design (neither are for sale), but if you want some samples, Let me know.
Jon

[Larry Gibson]

singleshot

Mr. Gibson, I'll give you 4 reasons: boolit too small, boolit too hard, inappropriate lube, too hot or too slow of a pressure rise to consistently obturate the projectile. (Good call, BTW, on the hard boolits, I'd forgotten about that since I haven't personally fired any commercial hard-cast.) Granted, you've given some expedient solutions for the OP to use his current stable of boolits, but when the projectile fits the throat/forcing cone and barrel, I have to WORK HARD at it to get my 44 mag rifles to lead and shoot poorly, regardless of BHNs from 8 to 35. (Yes, there is a 44 mag rifle with a forcing cone.)

On the other hand, maybe I simply have the proverbial "Midas touch" with the 44 mag (my favorite caliber), so YMMV. :-)

The point was to give the OP some options with the commercial cast bullets he had. I did not say the .429 sized bullets would shoot the best, I said there was no reason they wouldn't shoot well and there isn't. I then gave the OP two ways to make the hard cast commercial bullets he has to shoot "well". That was the point.

I then gave the OP an option for soft cast commercial bullets with a very good softer lube and FB's if he wanted to get more commercial cast. Those Desperado commercial cast bullets shoot a lot better than "well" and are an excellent choice for those wanting commercial cast bullets.

Now I have shot lots of Commercial cast .44s (mostly Greer and Lazer-Cast) in 2 Winchester M94s. 3 Rossi's and 2 Marlins over the years. I have shot the hard cast 215 and 240 gr bullets. When I relubed them and kept the velocity down at 950 - 1000 fps I got no leading and good accuracy. No, I did not get the "best" accuracy as with my own FB'd softer cast bullets. I also have done considerable testing of .38/.357, .44 and .45 cal Desperado cast bullets and they do very well as stated. Perhaps not the "best" accuracy but very "well" indeed.

Note that RMK's last questions were; "I thought I would ask if anybody has suggestions for good bullet style, dia mold, sizer size to recommend? Also can anyone tell me what kind of accuracy to expect with one of these shooting lead if all things are working right. Now also note I did not address any questions of those did I? Reason being several others were already addressing those questions. I only addressed what RMK could do better with using the commercial cast bullets he had. So I do appreciate your input but I am very aware that our own cast bullets of softer alloy, good lube and better fit can give the "best" accuracy from a Rossi rifle.....just wasn't my point is all.

Larry Gibson