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View Full Version : 1 of a kind WILD wildcat project bolt suggestions" (and other opinions)



IndySteve
12-24-2013, 05:37 PM
I built the 350Jr for our oddball Indiana regs to hunt deer. Worked "good" but I did learn a little, mostly about how much latitude to give a gunsmith I've never met. Still in all the results were as expected and the round is still in use

However:

For absolutely NO reason other than I want one, a .375 caliber wildcat, also legal here but usable on about anything walking with proper bullets and ranges, is in my head.....and won't leave.

A lot of us "older gun nuts" grew up reading every single hunting article we could get in arms length. No internet then so articles of the "Dark Continent" were only available as they came in various monthly magazines and while I have NO method of affording such a hunt today, the calibers of those hunts, read so long ago, still haunt my dreams. "NEED" has nothing to do with anything on this round.

I read threads here when such pop up on the big to medium bores......I just don't say much so still a newbie to most here. The frequency of the bigger bores mentioned here and the number of those shooting them tipped the scales in this direction when I "picked one" to ask a few questions. (That and most here don't ALREADY think I'm insane so I have some leeway. :grin: )

200 yards is a LONG shot here in cornfield country and opportunity to take one has to just about be set up for to get one so a "flatter trajectory" is not the "goal"......but a 200 yard sledgehammer might be if I had to pin point a single desire other than the paragraph above on articles of my youth.

But onward and upward. The WSM and RUM size brass is in use by a few and following the crowd has never been an ill I needed cured of. The "belted" 350JR was an example. The goal was a certain bullet, a certain velocity.......as cheaply as possible and it was fun as heck especially when it all came together as expected, even with a few less than asked for dimensions.

TWO rounds of many, many articles mentioned years ago (and today) are the 375 H&H and the 416 Rigby and I've spent weeks looking at capacities, pressures, etc and while it will be a PAIN the end round will be based on the .590 rimmed 416 Rigby brass so there is a question that comes to mind right off the bat.

What bolt or even what bolt ACTION? Two options are there and they are reaming out a mag bolt face to fit the .590 on a short action OR.....go the way of the 308 M24 and put a short round in a long action.

I've swapped email with a gent in AU who has built both short and long actions for .590 rimmed rounds.....in a Vanguard actions and suggests highly that I do the same for strength AND cost reasons. ONE of which that he built was a 338LM on a long vanguard action and the 338 is a MUCH higher pressure round than what I have in mind.

So the first question is ......if you were building a "shorter than a 308" wildcat on a .590 rimmed brass what action would you suggest? PTnG makes a 700 bolt with a .590 bolt face but MAN do I get a lot of neg feedback about 700 actions lately so.......just asking.

A LOT of the hesitancy from most opinions I've read is the "bolt thrust" of such a round BUT if you run the NUMBERS of the area of the .590 round times pressures in the 416 Rigby pressure range you will find that the bolt thrust is not an issue as it would be in the 60K plus rounds on the same action. (IMHO).

Anyone built or know of one that has been built successfully and can suggest a choice of actions for such.....that are NOT custom and out of my price range? LOL!

God Bless
Steve

John Taylor
12-24-2013, 08:06 PM
I built a 416 Rigby on a pre 64 Winchester model 70. First try was using a 375 H&H action and found the 416 cartridge would not stay in the magazine. Had to take an unaltered frame and open up the rail just enough for the cartridge to fit through. A wider box mag would do the same thing but then you need to open up the stock. The action needs to be cut for the longer cartridge, some factory rounds will not work at all. If I remember right the 416 is about 1/16" longer than the 375 H&H. This should not be a problem if you are going to shorten the brass. Bolt face is no problem to open up but on a Remington there might not be enough room for the extractor even if you went to a Sako type. A Mauser 98 might work with the shorter cartridge.

308w
12-24-2013, 09:38 PM
The remington bolt will work, I have a couple of friends who built 338 LM on rem actions, Remington even makes a factory 338 LM so it is a viable option.

IndySteve
12-25-2013, 12:12 PM
I think the .590 bolt for a SA from PT&G has the option for an extractor similar to the Mausers so is a thought and I hadn't thought of the extractor being in the way for a reaming job on a Remington.

No thoughts on the Vanguard action?

Thanks all for the info and MERRY CHRISTMAS

God Bless
Steve

Whiterabbit
12-28-2013, 12:40 AM
I'd be looking at a Savage. You can get a 338 lapua savage bolt and a long action. I don't know if it'll fit the short action. But give that the bolt faces are interchangeable, perhaps the lapua bolt face will fit a SA savage rifle, letting you just start with a 308 or whatever have you?

Doesn't JES rebore to 375? So start with a 308 savage 11, add a 338 lapua bolt face for $25 from midway, rebore to 375, and chamber to what have you?

IndySteve
01-23-2014, 07:22 PM
Do smiths exist that rebarrel Ruger No 1's? PacNor does but does NOT replace the quarter rib so IMO the job would be incomplete.

Thanks for all the suggestion and help guys.

God Bless

Whiterabbit
01-23-2014, 07:38 PM
Frys (if you have them near you) sells solder paste for 16 bucks. Dunno how much a quarter rib would cost from brownells. But the PacNor barrel would come back in the white, so torch on a new quarter rib yourself before bluing.

2AMMD
01-23-2014, 07:38 PM
45-70 Siamese Mauser conversion will probably kill tractor trailers and anything smaller. But if you want to design something new and different, I think you should go for it. Please post specs. and results so we can all learn.
2AMMD

IndySteve
01-23-2014, 07:44 PM
Long time project looking at the other expenses for 2014 but going for it. The quarter rib is also the base for scope mounts. I'm not sure I'd trust myself to get it on "right" and straight. LOL

No worries. When done Ill light up the web. Everyone needs a laugh these days! :-)

Going to be cool TO ME so....mission accomplished IMO. (Some will disagree LOL). I've switched gears and leaning hard towards a No 1...just cause. (Kinda like why I want to build this round).

Preliminary calculations show AROUND 67-69 grains of NET (below the neck) case capacity in H2O....but I do make mistakes too.......just an ideal.



God Bless!

Whiterabbit
01-23-2014, 07:47 PM
bubble level.

hubel458
01-24-2014, 12:24 PM
How about the 585HI case. I made it 1.8" just for new Indiana
length regulations. Case can run high pressures, but a
40,000 psi load will outdo any other short case by far and
most all regular ones too.Here is picture next to puny 500 S&W.Ed

94440

IndySteve
01-24-2014, 01:11 PM
Thanks for that. Fill me in here or in a PM on what that is or send me a link.

I "found" the 338 Norma Magnum brass that is very close to the 416 Rigby but runs 63,800 psi (4400 BAR) and going that way I'm pretty sure. (LOTS of neck turning)

Also did find a smith through two online authors and site owners that have had No 1's rebarreled to wildcats (BIG ones as in the 378 WBee mag parent round), so ....another step taken.

God Bless

hubel458
01-24-2014, 08:04 PM
Check 12ga FH thread in Shotgun section.
Case is a shortened 505 Gibbs used in any gun you set up
with Gibbs bolt face. Headspaces on the mouth
and extractor like the S&W.. Works great with
the .585"-.587" minie bullets and slow twist barrel,
also can use the Barnes turned streamlined bullets
with regular barrel. We got cases, barrels, etc.Ed

IndySteve
01-24-2014, 08:31 PM
Interesting but, personally, if I was going to go to a .630 rim I'd go the .640 rim on the CheyTac cases, rated for 63K psi and 2.15 each. What I saw ( I did look at this round) in the Gibbs, brass was 6-7 bucks a pop.

I DID think of going to the Cheytac......but the 338 NMag....is norma brass and something I do like. Price is around 2.50 each.

GodBless

hubel458
01-25-2014, 02:00 AM
These cases are the .638" rim and they are same base and
strength as Cheytac cases. Made by Jamison.
Jamison sell same basic gibbs/cheytac case for both uses.Will stand any pressure
the best gun can stand. Both Jamison and Bertram use same cups, draw dies and
draw punches to make all 3 cases and just use different headers and bunters.
Cheytac, Gibbs, one header, two different bunters, and
our 585HE which has belted header and its own bunter..

I tested cases to nearly 80,000 psi, and work fine.
Basic straight case about 3 bucks shipping included from Jamison.
The inside of cases same, same strength. My 585HE is just a new strong designed Gibbs/Cheytac
case with a belt and matching rim and extra long.
The short HI is for Indiana and other places and
has no belt. Being short it is easy to headspace on
the mouth, so I used Cheytac/Gibbs without belt
and that saves all my belted 585s for long case,
and big power.ED

IndySteve
01-25-2014, 04:02 AM
I was just going by what the specs are on each. Good stuff. Hand in hand I contacted Norma about the 416Rigby.......they wouldn't give numbers but said the "specs" on pressure were pretty out dated.

I think most the old rounds are the same when one considers the steel of guns today, the powders used and how the quality of brass and the processes to make such have improved.

Doubt I'll go that big but I might have a wild hair going this spring and buy a few to take a look.

So many options these days.

I really appreciate the info. I continue to look at options till I order a reamer and as said, long project for this ol fart.

Much obliged.
God Bless!

john hayslip
01-25-2014, 01:02 PM
Why not a 375 Whelen? No real action work required

IndySteve
01-25-2014, 01:10 PM
Why not a 375 Whelen? No real action work required

Ah.....my bad.

Like my 350JR (2570 fps with 225 grain .358 bullet)......THIS round is required to have brass NO LONGER THAN 1.800" and therefore in a short action or single shot for my acceptance. Any longer and it would not be legal for deer in Indiana but building it for more than deer and more for just Indiana but it needs to be legal here for that will be the main use.

Most are using a shortened 358W or one of the WSM cases and staying with the .358 bore. (.357 minimum caliber to be legal in a rifle here as well)

For a .375 that short, I wanted more capacity hence the 338 Norma Mag / 416 Rigby rim rounds with a much larger diameter body.

ONLY for my use, not building something even considering anyone else would want to go the cost and work for such.

This will have more capacity than the 30-06 case based rounds in a short action or in my case, a single shot.

I know, Im insane......no worries thinking so. Just a whim and I enjoy doing such.

God Bless