243 cast boolit deer load

[olyeller]

I'm new here fellows, so be gentle. Been on Handloaders Bench for awhile.

Learning to cast and learning there's a lot to it to make it work. I cast 158gr 357SWC, Lyman 311291 and Lyman 245498. Have gotten a Lee 150 gr 308 mold but not gotten it out of the box yet.
Question is: Do any of you have a deer load for the 245498? I'm concerned the low velocity of 243WIN with cast boolits will not be good deer medicine.

I have a semi decent load with IMR-4895 and the boolit engraving first drive band. It keyholes if it doesn't touch the lands.

[samwithacolt]

I'm as big a fan of the .243 for deer as anyone, but I think the consensus is that it's too light at cast velocities and smaller calibers don't perform as well with cast. I'm a relative newcomer to cast too, so I'll be watching what more experienced hands say.

[samwithacolt]

Do you know how fast your boolit is going?

[quilbilly]

IMHO if your boolit is 85 gr or larger and you have a terminal velocity in excess of 1600 at the maximum range you can (!!!) accurately place the shot (!!!) you will do just fine especially if you use an alloy that isn't too hard to expand. You will have to have patience for the right shot and that is the hardest part.

[richhodg66]

What are you shooting the 311291 in? That's what I'd use if I were you and wanted to hunt deer with cast instead of the .243.

[waksupi]

If it's key holing, the bullet is too small. When you engage the lands, you are allowing the projectile to bump up in the throat. Size larger!

Welcome aboard.

[olyeller]

Use the 311291 in a 340C bolt gun 30-30. It does well with 4895 and 3031.
The 243 is a Sako. It was the first mold I bought. Shooting 22gr IMR4895; figure MV is a tad over 2000. Need to crono it. It groups pretty well but I'm still learning and need to cull my boolits better.
IF I deer shoot with it, think I'll stay under 50yds.

Thanks.

[richhodg66]

Your 340 and 311291 ought to be a great deer combo. I used my 340 with the 31141 to kill a doe a couple of years ago and it worked fine. The 311291 is a RN but basically the same bullet otherwise. If it were me, I'd leave the .243 hunting to jacketed and use the .30-30 for cast.

[reloader28]

I was going to try different things and see if I could make a hunting boolit for 243 this year, but ran out of time. My RCBS 95gr would work awesome in the head and has enough accuracy to shoot them in the eye at 100yds. But I dont think it would be a good heart/lung boolit as is. I could be wrong. I'm hoping to play around more with it this coming summer.

I do know that with straight clip on WW and a 1/16" hollow point 3/8" deep it makes a WICKED varmint/small game boolit.:bigsmyl2:

[GabbyM]

Looked up that bullet and see it's the 95 to 100 gain bullet. That's very similar to the currently available RCBS 95 grain bullet so you could use any load data listed for that one.

I shoot the Saeco 87gr and an old Lyman 84gr Loverin in 243 A.I. 1-10" twist barrels. I struggled along playing with rifle powder. Rx7. Then found shotgun powder did a better job. Your heavier bullet should work a little better with the slower powders ignition though. 4895 is pretty slow in such an overbore case as a 243 Win. Mike Mohler won in the CBA with the RCBS bullet over 17.5 grains of IMR 4198. Velocity of 1950fps. I've had mine running at 2040 fps using the Rx7 but it shoots more accurate with 11 grains of Unique for about 1950 or less fps. Haven't clocked it yet. Wit the slower powder by the time it started to burn good bullet was going to fast for accuracy. 2400 is a popular powder for 243 cast. Looking at my load book. For the Lyman #245498. 14gr of 2400 gives 1770 fps.
10 grains Unique 1718 fps,
17gr IMR 4227 1926 fps.
I’d try something like 15gr 2400 and work up from there. Most magnum pistol or shotgun powders you have on hand should work.

For deer hunting I'd use the 30 caliber since you have it.

[Changeling]

Why take chances? It's to small a caliber (cast) for "Excellent" performance on deer. Yes, I realize it will work!
Load up with some 85gr Nostler Partition bullets. This combination works very well, low recoil, easy to place a shot, devistating for the caliber at 3200fps.

[olyeller]

I've a pair of Sako's in 243. Bullet choice in 243 is critical for good, humane chest-shot deer kills. Have taken 40-50 deer with this caliber, and found the Hornady 100gr interlock to be best choice of all I've tried. Some ranchers around here will not allow hunters to use 243, due to wounded/lost deer.
I've recently taken two with Hornady 95gr SST and it has worked extremely well. Both were intentionally chest shot. One at about 25yds and one at about 60. First was DRT without a kick; second ran 35yds max and expired.
Going to try the 90gr Accubond soon; ballistics look good for it.
But, back to the OP. Culled a bunch of boolits last night, I'm still learning. What I thought were keepers didn't weigh out too good. About half dropped between 101.5 and 102gr, so I kept that group. The rest go back in the pot.
I'm working loads with 4895, using the 60% reduced load formula. Is there/where is there an upper threshold in velocity? Do any of you think this boolit could be pushed 2200-2500fps and not strip on the rifling?

[GabbyM]

You might get past 2,050 fps but I've not been able to with a 243 1:10" twist barrel. Barrel was new 26 inch tube.

Your best bet at getting greater than normal velocity from a 6mm boolit IMHO would to try out some alloys with added copper. Take a look at this thread.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?172475-High-Copper-Alloys-Lets-discuss-this-further

I’ve been playing with it but haven’t had my 243 out this year. Have some MP-30-180-hollow points cast up for my 30-06 I’m going to shoot today over 40.5 grains of AA4064. Book on that load is 2,148 fps. Soft alloy of 50/50 plus babbit with Cu air cooled. That’s some soft metal for fast shooting applications. My 1:12” twist Win 94 30-30 will shoot the Saeco 150 grain cast this soft at these speeds. You don’t get much ricochet since the boolits blow up in the dirt like a 22 varmint round. Except they toss about a quart of dirt into the air instead of a handful. Probably a little soft for deer but they are for Illinois varmints like yotes and coons. I just mentioned that to say I don’t have any general rule against shooting cast boolits fast.

I've never had any leading issues. Just accuracy goes way south at much over 2000 fps. With the little 6mm and my 270 also. I have one load that shot pretty good clocking 2,040fps. Using 18.0gr Rx7 and the 87gr Saeco bullet. Those bullets are 2:6 foundry alloy oven heat treated. So they are hard. That gave single digit E.S. and one inch @100 yard groups. Problem was a half grain less powder and pressure was to low for a good burn making for poor things all around. Half grain more powder then velocity exceeded what the bullet could stand. Couldn't hit a pie plate all the time at 200 yards. I made the assumption that with such a narrow range of performance on any given day of temperature variations the load could just fail to perform. Plus powder was still burning dirty with not enough pressure to make a case to chamber seal so the backend got dirty too. Your ten grain heavier bullet will help with the powder ignition but I’d not know how much. Planing to test bullets with Cu alloy over some AA5744 this summer or sooner.

You can kill deer with a 243 cast boolit gun IMHO. I’d want to stay with chest and neck shots since bullet is light for trying to break a shoulder or leg bone. My formula would be 50/50 WW/PB (wheel weight / pure lead) heat treated by water dropping or oven heat treat. Loaded over 13.5 grains of 2400. Tweak that until you get about 1,925 fps. That will be good for 200 yards. That heat treated alloy usually expands at that velocity range in the larger calibers and holds together almost 100%. Your energy is around what a 44-40 puts out. After you get a load like that working and have a few boxes loaded up so you’ve something working in the gun. Then play around with pushing limits to see what happens. Get some Rotto Metal number 3 Babbitt with Cu and add 1 to 2% of it to 50/50 for a try.

Nobade got a 222x6mm with 1:14” twist barrel going pretty fast. But it’s the match quality barrel with 75gr bullet and a 14 twist that keeps rpm down. For deer hunting you can run into an issue with blowing up on impact fast moving cast bullets. I think the Cu alloy would help there.

We have a couple photos in the forum from a few years back showing dead deer hanging with big hole from Saeco 87 grain boolit. you need all your ducks in a row to make that happen constantly.

[olyeller]

Thanks Gabby. Lots of good info in your post.
I set up the chrono on the porch and am shooting some test rounds with 25gr 4895 right now. Loaded two to see what it would do. Something wrong cause one keyholed (had that problem solved I thought) but the other hit point on real close to where the 22gr loads were hitting day before yesterday.
Loaded three more and will post what they did soon.

[olyeller]

Well, two of three keyholed with the 25gr 4895 loading. Haven't had this problem since I started seating boolits to touch lands.
Will go back to 22 or maybe 21gr of 4895 and see if it stops.

[olyeller]

Well, two of three keyholed with the 25gr 4895 loading. Haven't had this problem since I started seating boolits to touch lands.
Will go back to 22 or maybe 21gr of 4895 and see if it stops.

[waksupi]

I repeat, your bullets are undersized. Size to throat!

[nekshot]

Ok, I'll be gentle. I shot almost as many deer with 22 lr as with high powers. I would never consider a 243 with cast if I had a 30-30 around. Our 243's use Barnes Bullets for deer. Some calibers cast is nice for practice, but not the best for a clean ethical kill.

[olyeller]

4895 22gr loads hit about 6" lower at 35yds than the 4895 25gr loads did, and the keyholing stopped, but it looked like I was shooting shotgun. The 22gr loads were real close horizontally, but vertical spread was about 6-8inches at 35yds.
Loaded three with 10gr of 700X and got a nice 1/2" wide by 1 1/2" high group. Well, nice is in the eye of the beholder;)

Thought sure sorting the boolits was the answer, and may be part of it. From reading here, several of you 243 shooters swear by 2400, so I'm gonna hold out for some.

My best groups have been with PB and now 700X, first driving band on the lands. I'm using minimum sizing (back the die out 3/4 turn and partial "neck size" cases previously fired in the gun).

Velocities with the 101gr boolit:
25gr 4895 = 2090
22gr 4895 = 1890
10gr 700X = 1620
10gr PB = 1570

[olyeller]

As previously stated, I've spent many hours and shot many deer with the little 243WIN. It has a bad rep with many around here and is not allowed on some folks property, and for good reason. Too many nimrods expect it to do more than they should.
Smallest bullet I've ever used for deer with a 243 is the 95gr SST, all others have either run off and hid after a chest shot (verified after finally finding them) or fallen reasonably close to POI.
Sierra's have been absolute worst for DRT results. Now, last I used some Sierras in 243 was 30-40 years ago, so maybe their ProHunters and GameKings are working better than the older fodder. I am using a 150gr Sie GK for an upcoming elk hunt with my 270WSM cause it groups very well and several have recommended it for the job.
Have also had my "fair" share of venison shot with the 22RF. Not proud of that beyond we didn't starve when times were tough. They too were DRT cause of severe lead poisoning of the brain. Don't advocate such in any way beyond a survival, SHTF situation.

So, I'm expecting no miracle with lead boolits. Just want to optimize what I can for whatever comes down the pike, donchano?

Sizing bigger may be part/most of the solution. Mold is dropping at about .2445 right now, so will have to hone out the mold to do this. Engraving on retrieved bullets has been fairly good actually, and no keyhole at the 1600-1700 range.

[GabbyM]

You didn't list any neck expansion tool in your setup. If you're trying to open the neck up more than .002" using the boolit you are probably reducing your bullet size. 243 necks are thick. However with a long bullet like you're using I also have trouble with bending the bullets trying to push them in undersized necks. I use a .245" sized bullet and a Lyman M die expander. Ideally the neck I.D. would be between .243" to .244" for that .245" boolit. My 243 AI chamber is cut with my own Clymer reamer and isn't a tight neck but with a .245" bullet it is snug. Thus I take any old brass and neck turn it to new brass neck thickness. This yields about a .0025" clearance for bullet release. I'd not want it any tighter.

If you get a load working up close be sure to take it out to 200 yards. I've had several 243 and 270 loads that would shoot decent at 100 yards but boolits would loose accuracy before reaching 200.

At the muzzle my 243 loads are running the velocity of a full power 85 grain J bullet is going at 400 yards. For comparison.

[reloader28]

Have you checked the twist rate on that gun?
I wonder if twist is borderline for your boolit.
I had a gun keyholing 16" patterns at 50yds once. I got it down to 6" groups finally but nothing tighter. The twist was way off for my boolit no matter what I did.

[reloader28]

Oops, double post

[olyeller]

Thanks all for the input. I will concentrate on each post and work on loads using 2400, PB, and 700X. If and when I get a Minute of Rabbit load, I'll work from there.
Gonna reduce my OAL to where the boolit just barely touches the lands. That should help with seating; had one come out while I was wiping the Mule Snot alox off the boolit tip. Only one driving band is in the neck, so neck tension is small.

[bart55]

I have also used 243 with jackets to kill a few whitetails, always worked good , and also in my youth shot quite a few with a 22 hornet and a 22 savage hi power, I wouldn't' do that now ,the hi power was the first I cast for ,had a 99 a mold cookie cutter and a 310 tool and 60 empties .All the deer taken were off my uncles back porch at his farm and again it was lead poisoning of the brain .I been shooting deer with cast now for over fifty years and I have yet to recover one. even shot a medium size buck lengthwise with 45 70 ,I was shooting water quenched 405 gr lee In a browning 78 it caught him low in the neck and came out the other side ,the backside that is .Deer just dropped ,I thought I had missed but one of the guys on the drive saw it and was congratulating me .It was on a fire lane and was about 150 yrds out .I probably should not have taken the shot but all things considered it was probably the best shot I ever took ,well bragging anyway

[olyeller]

Well Bart I too like the 243 for whitetails using jacketed bullets, taken more than my share.
Was out today trying to surprise one with my Savage 340 30-30 and a Lyman 311291. Going to keep carrying that combo this year unbtil season is over or i get my first venison with a cast boolit.
My hat is off to you fellows who have done all this; I spent way too much of my life working instead of living, and now I'm playing catch up.:wink:

[reloader28]

Dont give up. Shooting a deer with something that you made and have complete control of is the best feeling on the planet. Good luck to you.

We have shot MANY p-dogs with those 243 cast boolits.

[olyeller]

Thank you reloader28. I'm hunting til season end with 30-30 311291. Hope one slips up and lets me get a shot :2_high5: