Outlook for Ammunition

[Blacksmith]

Mods I know there is an open thread on .22 ammo in the PIT but considering the source of this announcement I felt everyone should be made aware. Move it if you think it belongs elsewhere.

The Chief Operating Officer of the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) Posted a sales update today and I have extracted the section on ammunition availability. Believe it or don't as you wish but I consider it a very reliable source.


This was posted on the CMP Forum
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124925

Orest
Chief Operating Officer

Default CMP Sales update - 17 Dec 2013
The following sales update email will be sent to all sales update subscribers tomorrow afternoon:

Excerpt section on ammunition:

AMMUNITION UPDATE. The CMP has been notified by ammunition manufacturers and distributors to expect price increases and significant delivery delays for all calibers of ammunition, especially for .22 rimfire. The price increases and delays apply to orders we have already placed with the manufacturers. Prior to 2013 CMP received deliveries of truckloads of ammo within a few weeks of placing orders. We are now being advised, as in the case of Aguila .22, that it may take several years to receive all of the 35,000,000 rounds of Aguila ammo we have on order.

As a result of this situation, CMP has placed orders with several different manufacturers for large amounts of ammunition in various calibers. We expect to receive only a few pallets at a time because manufacturers and distributors are rationing the ammo to their customers. As we receive ammo, we will contact customers with oldest orders already in place with the option to purchase whatever we receive at the new prices, cancel the order, or remain on the list for the manufacturer they originally requested. All price increases to CMP will be passed on to the customer. CMP will not be profiting from the increase in prices.

We will continue to accept orders for ammunition, with the understanding that the wait time for customers between placing an order and receiving the ammunition may be anywhere from a few weeks to a few years. Most other retailers are in the same situation as the CMP. We suggest that customers leave their CMP orders in place and not cancel until they are able to purchase ammo elsewhere. CMP customers will be contacted as to pricing and manufacturer before any orders are filled. We do not expect to have any additional information until after the annual SHOT Show in mid January, when we will meet with all of the ammo manufacturers.

[dbosman]

Not being a dealer I wouldn't make the trip just to look around, but if you happen to be in town when the NSSF Shot Show is there, GO. Admission isn't that hard to get. If you get to the convention center an hour before the show and hold up an admission wanted sign - some vender will get you a pass.

Just being able to see the stuff you've heard about but never seen and the new things coming out was a great time. Swag isn't bad either.

What you do not want is to be in the TSA line when the Shot Show dealers are leaving town. For some reason their bags have unusually shaped metal items in them. ;-)

Many venders at any convention, sell their booth (contents, product models, product samples, and displays) for a great price so they don't have to pay the center and union fees to take it down and pack it up.

[bhn22]

Hmmm... I wonder if I can find somebody who wants to trade a CF lever action for my 10/22, with ammo. At todays prices, I have about 'lebenty thousand dollars in 22 ammo. This panic is just not going away.

[Four-Sixty]

Can anyone say WHY ammo will go up in general?

If true, expect there is going to be a lot more new reloaders!

[oldred]

I have a couple of recent posts about Wal-Mart ammo stock being encouraging but after talking with a LGS owner I now have even more doubts. This is third-hand info so take it as that, his local distributor told him and he told me, that for RF ammo it would be AT LEAST SEVERAL YEARS before stocks could be plentiful again and that's if nothing else starts a new panic! Even then prices will be substantially higher so it looks as if we may never see cheap and plentiful 22 ammo again, I have joked about having all the 22 ammo I will ever need but after hearing that discussion coming from a no-BS gunshop owner my supply starts to look not quite so big anymore. :-(

[Garyshome]

Workaround? Get an Air Rifle!!!! Plenty of real cheap ammo! I just got 5000 pellets and 9000 bb's got $53 from wal mart. I got the rifle for $70.00 it was a refurb that I got for the grand kids, but I keep it at my house.

[jonp]

I have a couple of recent posts about Wal-Mart ammo stock being encouraging but after talking with a LGS owner I now have even more doubts. This is third-hand info so take it as that, his local distributor told him and he told me, that for RF ammo it would be AT LEAST SEVERAL YEARS before stocks could be plentiful again and that's if nothing else starts a new panic! Even then prices will be substantially higher so it looks as if we may never see cheap and plentiful 22 ammo again, I have joked about having all the 22 ammo I will ever need but after hearing that discussion coming from a no-BS gunshop owner my supply starts to look not quite so big anymore. :-(
Your not kidding. I have 10k or so of 22 Ammo I started to buy before the panic to have it on hand and I still buy a few hundred rounds when I see it. I don't buy a ton giving everyone else a chance since I have some but I'm not going to stop buying it and powder/lead boolits a little at a time until I have enough to last me.

[oldred]

Dang it Bill did you have to mention Woodsman??? I traded off my Woodsman match target about 25 years ago and I get depressed every time I think about it. :-(

[jcwit]

I'm glad of two things, I'm glad the ammo manufactures and distributors, are not in charge of the agriculture and food industry.

[jcwit]

This news sure makes me want to rush right out and buy a .22 rimfire.

[btroj]

I have between 4 and 5 K rounds of 22 LR. I haven't shot any in a few years. I must be rich!

[jcwit]

I have between 4 and 5 K rounds of 22 LR. I haven't shot any in a few years. I must be rich!

Nowhere near as rich as I am, just joking. Haven't shot much either because of health.

My stash amounts to 30/50,000 rounds, haven't inventoried lately. All was purchased way before this madness.

[Bonz]

I just wonder how much, if any, the shortage of gun powder is affecting the shortage of ammo

[jcwit]

I still find this hard to believe this is anything but an engineered shortage. By whom? Take a wild guess.

Reasons I feel this way? How long its been going on. It doesn't seem to be effecting other countries.

Price increase? Materials have not increased in price to any extent.

It will effect future generations in the shooting sports, nothing like getting rid of supply so future kids loose interest.

[bhn22]

This news sure makes me want to rush right out and buy a .22 rimfire.

It makes me want to sell mine off. CF cartridges I can make, rimfire, not so easily.

[snowwolfe]

My opinion is somewhat cynical on this subject. It isn't a government conspiracy, the "man" is not trying to keep us down, there is no huge plot to deny the average citizen access to ammo.

It all boils down to 95% of us (myself included) who do not want to be caught without .22 ammo. 10 years ago I would keep about 5-8 bricks on the shelf and felt pretty good. Now a days I have about 15K rounds and feel like I don't have enough. The reason I purchased so much was simply because the prices were so low and this was before the current ammo shortage craze. Why did I buy so much? Easy answer, it was cheap and I thought the price was going to go up. But, don't blame me cause there is none on the shelf because I have not purchased any from a store in about 3 years.
.22's are my all time favorite to shoot and plink. No chasing brass and no reloading. On the plus side, a brick of .22's to your favorite shooting buddy or their children makes a fantastic Christmas present.

The fix is easy. If I were a big ammo company I would build a couple of new factories and churn it out 24/7. IMO most people will buy as much as they can for decades to come.

[Idz]

Ammo companies aren't likely to invest $100M and go through all the paperwork to make more ammo and drive down the price. Right now they sell all they make, have no new competitors coming online, and don't have to worry about overcapacity if the hysteria subsides. As long as people keep electing Dems its too risky to invest big in new plants. Eventually the hoarders floors will collapse under the weight of all that ammo.

[oldred]

It's been said before, quality 22 RF ammo was made in large quantity 100 years ago without modern equipment in massive facilities. I know it wouldn't be practical to use all the same methods and machinery of that era in today's environment but still it shows that it doesn't take rocket science or a rocket factory to make the stuff!

[montana_charlie]

The current American Rifleman has an article about the ammo shortage.
CM

[Blacksmith]

Did you all notice that the CMP alone, one vendor with two stores and about 250,000 registered customers, currently has 35,000,000 (Thirty Five Million) rounds on back order. I wonder how many rounds Walmart, Gander Mountain, Cabellas, Dicks, and the other big stores have on order?

[jonp]

Remington did just announce that it was expanding its plant in Lanoka I think it was. They did not say if anymore rimfire was coming, however.

[felix]

If 35M should sound like a lot, the number asked for will blow your mind. Even the reported military numbers throughout the entire world does not stand a chance to compete with the current civil orders in this country. ... felix

[snowwolfe]

Did you all notice that the CMP alone, one vendor with two stores and about 250,000 registered customers, currently has 35,000,000 (Thirty Five Million) rounds on back order. I wonder how many rounds Walmart, Gander Mountain, Cabellas, Dicks, and the other big stores have on order?

If that is all .22 ammo it amounts to 7,000 cases. Not really that much when you divide that by the number of members. That's one case on back order for each 35 members.

[762 shooter]

If you can't replenish your supplies 20,000 rounds of 22RF isn't much. I thought I had a lot. Rationed shooting of 22RF is in effect now. Sad to see.

762

[fatelk]

This is third-hand info so take it as that, his local distributor told him and he told me, that for RF ammo it would be AT LEAST SEVERAL YEARS before stocks could be plentiful again and that's if nothing else starts a new panic! Even then prices will be substantially higher so it looks as if we may never see cheap and plentiful 22 ammo again,

I can understand where they're coming from on that, but don't think it's that easy. I remember hearing less than a year ago, during the height of the scare, that backorders for "black rifles" and AR magazines were in the millions, and it would be years before they were available in store, and prices would never come back to near where they were.

Fast forward a few months: I was just at a gun show and saw plenty of ARs back down to the price they were years ago, and a stack of used magazines for $5 each. Those backorders were real, but when demand subsided and they stopped selling for insane retail prices, all the dealers got on the phone and cancelled their backorders.

I can't imagine that it will happen that fast with .22lr ammo, but I really think it will happen at least to some degree. According to the recent Rifleman article, ammo production is now about double what it was in recent years. Logically, it seems to me, sooner or later demand will drop and they will be manufacturing more than they can sell.

At that time they will either lower production or lower the price. The question is, what is the cost of production? The wholesale price will only lower to where it is still profitable, then production will slow. I can't imagine that production is really that much more expensive than it was a year or two ago, if any.


If you can't replenish your supplies 20,000 rounds of 22RF isn't much.

I'm jealous. Clearly you get out to shoot a lot more than I do. I think that would be a 20 year supply for me! :)

[DRNurse1]

I bet the cost is not that far off. Remember the EPA has it's hooks into the supply chain, and BATFE has an effect on the supply as well. I cannot imagine a NEW business venture proposal that includes a 22LF manufacturing plant with the deck so stacked against it. That leaves existing manufactureers to increase their production....and decrease their profits???

I suspect the demand side is the only way to affect the availability of 22LR ammo.

[oldred]

I can understand where they're coming from on that, but don't think it's that easy. I remember hearing less than a year ago, during the height of the scare, that backorders for "black rifles" and AR magazines were in the millions, and it would be years before they were available in store, and prices would never come back to near where they were.

Fast forward a few months: I was just at a gun show and saw plenty of ARs back down to the price they were years ago, and a stack of used magazines for $5 each. Those backorders were real, but when demand subsided and they stopped selling for insane retail prices, all the dealers got on the phone and cancelled their backorders.

I can't imagine that it will happen that fast with .22lr ammo, but I really think it will happen at least to some degree. According to the recent Rifleman article, ammo production is now about double what it was in recent years. Logically, it seems to me, sooner or later demand will drop and they will be manufacturing more than they can sell.

At that time they will either lower production or lower the price. The question is, what is the cost of production? The wholesale price will only lower to where it is still profitable, then production will slow. I can't imagine that production is really that much more expensive than it was a year or two ago, if any.


Kind of what I was thinking too before talking with the gunshop owner. Also as the panic subsides what becomes of all that hoarded up ammo? Lot's people will hang onto a substantial stash and buy more for shooting but many others will shoot what they have plus the hoarders will be dumping a lot of what they bought so I can see the possibility of a very bloated market, at least that's what I hope happens instead of the gunshop owner's scenario!

[destrux]

The thing is the ammo companies are building new factories to meet demand. They're also paying workers overtime and hiring more people. There are also a bunch of new names coming to the shelves too now as new makers start up and even a few old ammo factories have been resurrected and are once again making ammo.

All of this new expansion has to be having an effect on the demand of metals and chemicals. Not to mention we are likely paying for the new factories that existing makers are building.

Prices will drop when demand goes down and supply is up. Manufacturers will need to sell product to keeps those new factories humming. It will take a while for some products though.

[Garyshome]

It looks GREAT when I'm sitting behind my Dillon with the handle in my hand!

[kullas]

not to mention the prez just shut down the last lead smelter in the US

[jcwit]

not to mention the prez just shut down the last lead smelter in the US

Good Grief, here we go again!

[kullas]

Good Grief, here we go again!
LOL i just had to :)

[jcwit]

We ain't seen nothin yet. :)

May all be. But actually no one KNOWS what the future holds.

That really may be a blessing.

[dbosman]

I know, but telling you would kill your grandfather at age ten as he caught that single butterfly that flew in from South America.

[Auminer]

Good Grief, here we go again!

No Worries:

http://cms.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2013/12/us-ammunition-industry-to-survive-closure-of-lead-smelter.aspx

http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/

[oldred]

“This will inevitably increase the cost of electronic devices that use copper," wrote Yardley."It will add to the cost of a wiring a new home, having an adverse impact on the housing industry.”


“The Treasury Department already wants to discontinue the penny due to the cost of producing it. [a rising cost of copper will only add impetus to that, and might encourage them to REPEAT THE RESPONSE TO A COPPER SHORTAGE DURING WWII, AND PRODUCE PENNIES FROM STEEL.”

Anyone see a problem with what's being said here?

Of course Pennies haven't been made from Copper in years! Since they're made of Zinc with a very thin Copper layer a few thousandths thick the cost of the copper is hardly an issue, sure the feds want to get rid of the penny due to it's MANUFACTURING costs but copper's not the problem! Whoever wrote that article obviously thinks pennies are still copper, wow a news article gets something wrong, shocking!


Please forgive me for straying off topic a bit but something funny happened to me with a penny and the composition of pennies,

About ten years ago while overseeing a repair job on a large mining machine I overheard a common, but mis-guided, suggestion from one of the welders to one of his younger co-workers to use a penny under a thin piece of steel he was welding so the MIG wire he was using would not burn through, the welder was explaing that the copper would soak off the excess heat and help him plug that small hole. When I explained that while his reasoning is correct with this very old welders trick he must use an old penny made before the 80's because they're zinc and not copper (copper comprises 2 1/2% including the thin pure copper coating) but neither of these guys were aware of this and one, the young guy (well young to me, he was about 30) disputed it and insisted pennies were in fact copper. So I reached into my pocket and produced a penny with the intent of scraping the edge with my utility knife to expose the zinc inside, when I looked at the penny to see if it was old or not I discovered that it was old indeed! It was VERY nice 1904 Indian Head penny in excellent condition and I had gotten the darn thing in change somewhere and I was carrying it around in my pocket with my loose change! I checked it out later and it turned out to be nothing special except for the fact it was in a very crisp hardly circulated condition so I kept it as my "Lucky piece".

Sorry about getting off track like that but that incident came back to me as I was making that post, what's the odds of getting a nearly mint 1904 coin in change (probably from a stolen coin collection) and then picking that coin from the others in my pocket for my little demonstration that led me to discover it, I might otherwise have spent it or gone for years without looking at a particular penny for any reason.

[tengaugetx]

I'm in central Illinois for a funeral. Haven't seen this much ammo at home for a year. Also found some Bullseye at the gander mountain in spfld Il. Things are way better here than at home. A scheels had HMR and 22 shorts too. Another 6 to 12 months should have things back to normal

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I was at my local gun store last night , what people don't understand is the numbers , they grow to staggering ammounts real quick so here goes.


so the NRA in their article estimated 100 million gun owners I had previosly hears we were nearing 47% gun ownership among law abiding citizens , so when we take out the felons and Illegals I suppose a 100 million while it is only 1/3 of the US population it is probably very close to 47% of the legal citizens

lets say of those 100 million gun owners 40% have a 22 and shoot it some , occasionally or even often.

so 40 million people want some 22 ammo they may only shoot 100 rounds a year or less

but as soon as they can't go to the local hardware store and buy a box of 50 for 2.50 cents when they run low they panic , then they need a brick

now if 40 million people each wanted to stock 1 brick of ammo it would come to 20 billion rounds , remember that number 20 billion


now I had heard that ATK (cci , fredral , american eagle )can make about 4 million rounds a day of 22lr 4million x 365 days = 1 billion 460 million rounds a year 1,460,000,000

20,000,000,000 / 1,460,000,000 =13.7 years of production thats if 40 million users want to stock just one brick

figure in Remington , Winchester , and imported brands and divide 13.7/4 manufactures roughly is 3.4 years of production

thats how much leaves the shelves if every one of those users wants one brick , now we all have relatives who own a 22 and shoot 10-15 rounds a year , but they will want a brick also when they can't just toss down a 5 dollar bill and walk away with a few years rabbits shot from the garden in ammo


I don't know about you but I shoot more than a brick a year , so I stck a little bit more than that, I wish i had 10 bricks with as long as i think the wait may be

in the NRA article all of the manufacturers are making serrios capital investments to add capacity because it is now clear this is a much longer term issue I think Remington said 37 million dollar expansion so some day this may ease up

[Iowa Fox]

We need to look at the bright side. Chances are we are all mature, sitting on a good stash of lead & alloys, molds, primers, powder, brass, reloading tools, and skill. Bill Weddle said it best " There is no substitute for the 22 LR" and that's sure true for the autoloaders which I really enjoy. At least we can keep blasting for a fraction of the cost of current rimfire with our reloads, even if we buy RF at Walmart which has a price of 23.99 (about 4 1/2 cents per round with a little tax) on their empty shelf for 550 of Federal. It depends on our ages and how old our component inventory is but I'm currently shooting the Hornet for less than a penny a round. This cycle will repeat itself so to the younger guys, stock up for the next shortage when this one frees up and you see some bargains to be had.

[762 shooter]

^^^^^^^^+1

762

[Blacksmith]

The up side is the overall quantity of stored ammunition, and components, in this country has increased. There will be something to shoot in those "...gun behind every blade of grass...". The total number of guns and guns per capita numbers have also risen probably making this country one of the best armed in the world. We should thank the greatest gun salesman ever Barack Hussein Obama II.

[Tonto]

I was in a Gander Mountain two days ago here in Minnesota, they had mountains of center fire ammo, absolutely no 22lr. The prices on the center fire were the highest I've seen in a retail store, ever. I didn't see one person even pick up a box in the time I was there, most just walked thru the displays shaking their heads. A $7 plastic box with 200 45acp hardball at $129.00 like that was some sort of special. The retail chain stores are rubbing their hands together while they enjoy their edge in these times. I wouldn't spend a dime there. I've not seen that much ammo in a year.

[Iowa Fox]

[QUOTE=Tonto;2535837]I was in a Gander Mountain two days ago here in Minnesota. A $7 plastic box with 200 45acp hardball at $129.00 like that was some sort of special.

Holy Smokes 65 cents a trigger pull.

[jcwit]

I was in a Gander Mountain two days ago here in Minnesota, they had mountains of center fire ammo, absolutely no 22lr. The prices on the center fire were the highest I've seen in a retail store, ever. I didn't see one person even pick up a box in the time I was there, most just walked thru the displays shaking their heads. A $7 plastic box with 200 45acp hardball at $129.00 like that was some sort of special. The retail chain stores are rubbing their hands together while they enjoy their edge in these times. I wouldn't spend a dime there. I've not seen that much ammo in a year.

This surprises you? I have long since given up going to Gander Mountain except when someone who has no clue gives me a gift card for there.

[TXGunNut]

I must admit I way underestimated the current "panic", if we can still call it that. I figured we'd be back to normal by July, August at the latest. This unprecedented demand is difficult to understand but I was prepared to get by without making any purchases of ammo or components for at least a year. I don't shoot my beloved .22's much so don't keep much ammo available for them, at least one brick was purchased for under $10.
Many shooters, including me, have been thru these panics before and feel there's something different about this one. I have trouble understanding where these billions of rounds of 22lr are going since I often check the shelves for them, even tho I don't really need any. I'm not the only one seeing empty shelves, seems to be a widespread issue. I feel pretty confident this shortage, too, shall pass but I'm having serious apprehensions about the next one, and we all know there will be a next one.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Even though I can reload cheaper than buying .22's, I still want to have them around. At our local Farm&Fleet, there is ammo for everything but .22. I won't be buying any of the expensive .22 ammo but I still would like to have some. In Illinois, you must have a FOID card to purchase ammo and that keeps a lot of people from buying it during a panic and yet there is no .22 to be found. No out of staters can buy ammo in Illinois either. So if the land that has restrictive gun and ammo laws is out this long, how long will it take in other states where anyone of age can just come into a store and buy it.

[WILCO]

This panic is just not going away.

It's not a panic. It's supply and demand. Basic economics 101.

[oldred]

It's not a panic. It's supply and demand. Basic economics 101.


True but in this case the demand is grossly exceeding the supply DIRECTLY BECAUSE of the panic!

[trapper9260]

True but in this case the demand is grossly exceeding the supply DIRECTLY BECAUSE of the panic!

You are right and we will not see a end of it for how every thing is .That is the way i am seeing it.Those that do not have any idea of it will keep the demand up.

[groovy mike]

IN NY everyoine is trying to buy a lifetime supply of ammunition before the stupid state law goes into effect requiring the state police to track your ammunition purcahses in a database. Onec that is up and running ammo purchases in NY state will plummet.

[Four-Sixty]

Another part of the surge in demand I had not considered was the new guns in 22 coming out. The Ruger SR22 pistol, the Smith AR 15 type 22.

I was trying to pick up some 22LR here and there every payday. I would go to Academy or Bass Pro in the summer before the panic and the selection was not that good. We had a growing shortage issue before the panic even started.

If I won that recent big lotto jack pot, I would have built a plant to make just 22LR and probably tripled my money in a couple of years!

[oldred]

If we think about it then it seems that production being at record highs vs the amount of 22 RF actually being shot then logic would seem to indicate there will soon be a glut, that is if nothing happens to start another panic and of course "soon" is open to conjecture. When folks finally get enough hoarded to the point they lose interest in buying and the ammo scalpers get stuck with stashes they can't sell then we might see some RF ammo on the shelves and at reasonable prices, I truly hope when the panic subsides and folks find themselves with all that 22 ammo hoarded up sales, and thus prices, will fall to below what they were pre-panic due to decreased demand and a glutted market but that's probably just wishful thinking.

[shdwlkr]

myself I wonder if we will ever see 22lr ammo again at prices even close to the past. The ammo makers have already said they were raising the price 15% and if you are paying attention they are ready to raise that price. So if we do see 22lr ammo again it will cost more and if it costs close to center fire why would you buy 22lr?

I wished I had purchased way more when it was at a reasonable price, but looking backward only makes going forward a real challenge.

One day we may see shelves filled with ammo but I wonder just how many years that will be from now? Yep I am looking at what I can see on the shelves and if it is something I use and can afford to buy it I do, that is all we can do now and maybe for a long time.

[oldred]

So do we believe the __________ we're being told and accept it as fact? ?

Do we have a choice???

[monadnock#5]

In the novel "Red Storm Rising", Tom Clancy stated that there are spy agency analysts all over the planet looking at very small segments of the manufacturing base of potential enemies. As an example, a small group of analysts in the US intel community watch wet cell battery availability. No self respecting military, anywhere in the world would even consider going to war without all the wet cell batteries they could get hold of. So, if, for whatever reason, commercial trucks in China should should become inoperable for want of a new battery, it's time to hit the DEFCON 3 button.

OTOH, the NRA pointed out years ago, that most new ammo doesn't get sold in gunshops. Wal-mart is the king of ammo sales. Thing is, W-mart ammo isn't sold mostly to guys like us. It's sold to moms on their way from the DVD's to the Pampers isle, or dads on their way from boots to windshield wash. Impulse sales in other words.

But that was then, this is now. I for one can't go to Wal-Mart without at least checking availability. Every time. I'll bet there are many others doing the same. Shoppers looking to kick the tires, and buy when the impulse hits, has far outpaced production.

There is, to my simple mind at least, a solution to all this. Temporarily suspend the manufacture of all ammo except for: .22lr, 9mm. .40, .45, 5.56 and 7.62X51(at market prices). When the market place is drowning in the above, then maybe I'd allow for some .17 fast, Faster or FASTEST. And maybe a few WSSM's.

[starmac]

Out of your pick of the only ammo that needs manufactured, I have zero use for all but the 22 lr, so I'm thinking that won't work for a lot of guys. lol

[monadnock#5]

There are a lot of guys here, me included, that thinks that there is something rotten in Denmark, so to speak. Drowning us in the calibers set out above would go a long way towards making all the bad feelings go away.

[1950Hudson]

IMHO, what is rotten in Denmark is government interference in the market. I think it's just market forces and realities. Ammo companies will produce up to their absolute limits because there is good profit in it. None of them will add new capacity in the face of possible laws shutting down all their equipment, so what they can make is what they will make.

It might help to shift capacity to higher demand calibers, but I don't know how feasible that is. I don't think that all machinery is interchangeable.

I also think that it is not just shooters who are buying 22lr. For decades, the common mantra I have heard from the preppers I know has been gold, silver, and 22lr as smaller denomination "money." I suspect that there are some people buying the stuff as storage goods that don't even shoot. It is not just evil hoarders, it makes a lot of economic sense for anyone. Shelf life is far better for 22lr than for almost anything else I can think of that you can store. It's compact and not as likely to lose value as the money in your bank account. It is useful as either money or hard goods, i.e., if you can't trade with it, you can eventually shoot it up, so it will always have some value. Gold and silver, on the other hand, can be made into useful stuff but not by just anyone.

I, too, wish I had bought a bunch of it before I knew I needed it. The limited amount I do have wont ever get fired until I can re-supply or it becomes absolutely necessary to use the stuff up.

[Iowa Fox]

^. More calls to manufactures on the phone. . Talk to people with heart beats. Stir things up. Being passive, patient and waiting, won't get us ahead.
In issues of guns & ammo when did that ever work? Never.

Everybody just needs to quit buying 10/22 & SR22 Rugers for a month. Its the only way to get some attention for the lack of 22 rimfire.

[starmac]

Buy em if you want em, the ammo will eventually be back. They sell more ammo (here at least) than they ever have, just one day at a time.

[Spawn-Inc]

i really hate reading these threads, it makes me want to go out and buy all the 22lr i can find which luckily is ALOT (Canada). i'm just a brick or 2 under 20k, but i would like to be at 30k minimum, i just can't afford to shell out money anymore. i need to start paying off my line of credit and buy a house.