Help me fix wrinkles - NOE 9mm 135g

[wingnut49b]

I have been casting 45's for a couple years, and I'm trying to cast for my 9mm now too. I'm getting wrinkles that I can't stop.

I've cleaned it a couple times, with dawn dish soap and brake cleaner. That didn't fix it. So I thought I wasn't getting the mold hot enough with the smaller cavities. Tonight I cast until I got hot enough for frosting, and still wrinkles! :(

This is my first NOE mold, if that matters. My 45 mold is a MP, and these are the only two I've cast with.

What am I doing wrong??

90728

[waco]

Possible lead contamination?
Have you fluxed the mix well?

[smokesahoy]

do a couple hundred hotter than normal and see if that doesn't break it in and fix em up

oh you said frosty.. well cast a few hundred frosties for the holiday and see if it doesnt break it in.


i assume you have the flow maxed out within reason and fill each cavity with one fell swoop right? you arent drip dripping it till full? nice large puddle? get a good 10 second puddle going and just cast cast the night away.

[wingnut49b]

I'm running WW alloy, and pouring at 720* with a frozone PID kit. How much hotter would help? Another 50*?

The same alloy works great with the 45 200g SWC's, so I don't think that's it, but I've been wrong before!

[Beagle333]

I'd say crank it up, at least the other 50 degrees, and then pour a pile, like smokesahoy says, then bring the temp back down and see if you hit the sweet spot. And get that lead in that little hole fast! Don't let it swirl around on the sprue plate and dribble down in the hole... flood the hole as quick and as cleanly as you can, and then you should be able to drop it back down to 730-720 and keep making good ones. I find those little boolits don't transfer as much heat to the mold as you'd think.
After you break it in and get your rhythm of how fast to pour it in there, it'll cast more normally. I love my NOE's, but they do require some break-in and personal learning of each one's little tricks.

[D Crockett]

usually when I see what you have I just add some solder to my mix about 1% usually take out the wrinkles might try that D Crockett

[ShooterAZ]

Put the mold on a hotplate for 10-15 minutes (or longer if you are casting outside) on medium high and see what happens. If that doesn't work, I would try a very light smoking of the mold with a Bic lighter, at least until it breaks in. Some guys "never" smoke a mold, but sometimes it helps. Once you start getting good boolits...haul butt with your casting. Your mold is probably still just too cold.

[tomme boy]

Go to 750* and cast faster. Once they start to get a little frosty, slow down a little.

[bhn22]

Sometimes you have to run through a few cleaning and casting cycles to get an acceptable finished product. I'm assuming that you followed NOEs break in instructions, as far as cleaning the mold, then heat cycling it a couple of times. The oil that machine shops use sometimes takes a bit more effort to remover completely, and NOEs aren't the only ones I've had this sort of issue with. Try giving it a scrub with Dawn again, the running another heat cycle in the oven. Following this, preheat the mold and try casting with it again. We know it's frustrating, we've all been there.

[Bzcraig]

It took several hundred boolits before I consistently got good results from my NOE 9mm mold. I would use some Comet with a soft toothbrush, run your alloy to 750-775*, start casting and once the boolits get frosty the wrinkles should be gone.

[el roboto]

I have a lee 2 cavity 230 gr roundnose mold that I seem to have the same problem with. I've tried everything it will just not cast a good boolit.

[wingnut49b]

Thanks guys. i know it will get there, NOE has an excellent reputation. I will warm it up and keep going.

I'm really glad that there is this community here. I know I wouldn't be casting without it! Good to see technology used to keep the old way alive.

[btroj]

I agree with Bhn22, give it another good cleaning and have back at it.

I find that some Al moulds need a couple clean, cast, clean cycles to start dropping good bullets.

Don't think melt heat, think mould heat. Run it fast. Pour, cut, dump. No stopping to look at your bullets, no stopping for anything. Cast, cast, cast. If the mould cools much at all you can get wrinkles. Just because the bullets started to frost doesn't mean the mould was too hot, some alloys are more prone to frosting than others.

Again, get the mould clean then get it hot. Keep it hot. Keep a good rhythm going, no stopping to gawk.

[cbrick]

If your not accustomed to aluminum molds that's your only problem. If your using tin in your alloy you do not need a higher pot temp than you already have, that IS NOT your problem.

It is very simply that aluminum gives up it's heat (cools) far faster than either brass or iron. Properly pre-heat the mold and cast faster, keep the blocks closed and full as much as possible. While your admiring your new wrinkles the mold is cooling . . . FAST. Pour an extra generous sprue puddle to add heat to the sprue plate and top of mold.

Aluminum makes a great mold material but it is different casting than brass or iron and simply requires getting used to the difference.

Rick

[Frozone]

I'm (well almost) glad that I'm not the only one who can't get NOE molds to clean up!
I have a couple that have been pure aggravation.

The only thing I could do was Keep cleaning.
It's obviously contaminates because its the exact same 'wrinkle' in the exact same place out of the same hole every time.
And each hole in the mold has it's characteristic wrinkle.
The one that is really driving me nuts is a small 'zit' the size of a #6 shot on the front drive band of one hole.
I can get good boolits but they must be slightly frosted. The mold just will not throw shiny stuff.

Pressure pouring Helped, as did Very hot alloy for the first 1K or so pours. So hot it flowed into the vent grooves under the pressure pour.
darn things looked like a porcupine ;-)

now that it's poured 3k or so it does ok, except for the darn 'zit'. I've even been able to reduce the alloy temp to normal and stop pressure pouring.
still have to run the mold hotter than I want to though.

[bangerjim]

I recommend using the dreaded no-no......pressure casting! :groner:

I use it all the time and I never have any wrinkles......even with a dead cold mold! Have never understood why more do not promote and use this simple method for tricky molds.

I use 2 & 6 banger Lee molds and a 4-20 bottom pour. The pour spout is shaped like the sprue hole for a reason. Just put it down into the sprue hole and cast away. You can feel a little "tick" when the cavity fills completely. And a little soup will come out around the hole usually.

Preheated molds are the best, but I have tried cold and they work also. The sprue will pull the heat out of the spigot and you may need to heat it with a gas gill lighter at first a few times.

Pressure casting solves all the wrinkle/bad fill/gunky-looking boolits I have ever tried.

It costs nothing to try it!!!!!!!!!!!!! :drinks:

Let us know!

banger

[reloader28]

I have only one NOE and its a 30 cal mold and it took me 3 or 4 casting sessions to figure it out. They all had wrinkles.
I followed the directions and cleaned, then recleaned, then recleaned. Played with the heat. Heated it up on a hot plate 3 or 4 times.
I finally just turned the heat up more and it started making great boolits.

Even after my minor problems I would definately buy another NOE. Nice molds.

[detox]

Your mould is not hot enough, use a ladle, turn up pot temp to 790, cast faster. If that does not work, try linotype or Lyman #2 alloy. Those two alloys are more forgiving when using aluminum moulds. IMO steel moulds work best at casting with all alloys.

Some of you guys clean your moulds way too much.

[btroj]

How can a mould be cleaned too much?

Please inform me on what this means?

[cbrick]

If your casting at 790 I hope your not wasting your money on Sn. Lino & #2 are both Sn rich alloys & the temp shouldn't get to 750.

Aluminum molds cast WW & similar alloys perfectly at 700 degrees. Very common from posts on this forum from fairly new casters going from iron molds to aluminum to have this same problem. The solution isn't to oxidize the alloy extra fast, the solution is simply get used to a different mold material that cools far faster than what you are accustomed to. A bit of experience and your good to go.

Rick

[btroj]

Every mould is different. Find what that mould wants.

Mould material, cavity size, and number of cavities all change the nature of a mould and what it wants. Experience helps but the best thing to do is mess around and see what works for that mould.

[cbrick]

And anther thing for the OP. You didn't mention how many cavities your new NOE mold has but you did say it is 135 gr boolit. When filling the cavities don't look at it as pouring lead, look at it as pouring heat and with small boolits your not pouring much heat, keep in mind that aluminum cools very quickly and your pouring little heat to begin with.

Don't fall for the inexperienced saying the solution is to crank up the pot heat. 700 degrees is at least 250 degrees OVER a good mold casting temp and at least 150 degrees over full liquidus of the alloy. 250 degrees is much hotter than needed to keep your mold somewhere around 450 degrees. If you can't cast without at least 350 degrees or more over proper mold temp your doing something wrong. The hotter the melt in your pot the faster oxidation occurs with Sn oxidizing first and fastest. Past 750 degrees the Sn cannot do what it is in there to do, reduce surface oxidation of the alloy.

Rick

[btroj]

My 6 cav Lee 415 gr 45 cal mould needs to go far slower than my new 125 RN from Hm2.
Both made from Al but Ike Rick said, one is getting lots more heat dumped with each pour than the other.

[wingnut49b]

I will try pressure casting tonight, faster, with 750* alloy. And I'll clean again.

Better yet, I've pretty much decided to start shooting wrinkles while I am getting them. IDPA isn't very demanding on accuracy, at least not indoors. I'm guessing they will shoot as well as I can if the bands are crisp. I have a new to me M&P9 that is calling my name! And I can't stand the idea of buying ammo or boolits after 'investing' in a mold, star size die, dillon dies, etc...


Andy

[jakec]

When filling the cavities don't look at it as pouring lead, look at it as pouring heat and with small boolits your not pouring much heat, keep in mind that aluminum cools very quickly and your pouring little heat to begin with.

Rick

thats a good way to explain it. something just clicked for me when i read that, thanks>

[Harter66]

I have a 7mm NOE and I actually can't cast fast enough w/it to keep the mould hot. I pour 10 or so pours then back onto the hot plate. Its a 5C the 1st pour or 2 I get 5 then 4 for 3 pours then 3 for 4-5 pours then it goes back to the plate.

On the other hand the 9mm/38/357 and 40 cal 6Cs get hot enough setting on the pot sprue plate down to pour out 10# before the 3rd 5 pounder of cut sprues gets hot enough to cast w/only 2-5% reject rate.