225415,22 hornet,2800f.p.s. !

[mainiac]

Shot many test groups today out of my hornet. One series was with lilgun, and i took the load up to were i was getting sticky bolt lift, and i was averaging 2812 f.p.s. Being a novice to cast rifle shooting, I didnt think it was possible to drive a air-cooled wheel weight that fast. BTW, the bore never fouled at all. Once i got to 2750 f.p.s. the holes started looking funny in the paper.Oblong in shape,although i was still getting acceptable accuracy. This is the most intresting thing ive shot in a long while. Had some loads with 700x powder, started at 2 grs and they were going about 1200 f.p.s. These never hit the target! 1500 f.p.s. they started grouping, and by 1700 f.p.s. they were shooting under 1.5 inches @50. This is a 16 twist stevens rifle. Most accurate groups were with h-4227 @ about 2000 f.p.s. Had many groups with this powder around an inch or so. Have no intrest in super speed, but i wonder how fast i could drive this bullet? I guess its time to dig out the .222, and take it higher than 2800.

[Bad Water Bill]

How about some more info on your ultra ultra sonic loads

[beagle]

I've never pushed a 225415 that fast but I shot some 225107s at 2702 FPS with 9.0 grains of 2400. Accuarcy was about 1" at 100 yards. This was in my M77 Ruger. I did find out that case life tended to suffer at higher velocities so I've tweaked them down a bit./beagle

[shooting on a shoestring]

I've run the 45 gr 2 lube groove version of 225438 GC to 2600 with Lil'gun and H110. But my cases stretched about .003 to .006". I backed off to 2400 - 2500 and cases stretch only about .002". I use a Ruger #3.

I'm curious which 225415 are you using? I have the 55 gr version and haven't been able to get it to shoot. Is yours 55 or 45 gr?

[35remington]

Mine is 49 grains with gascheck. Mostly lino or at most 50-50 with wheelweights at about 50 grains. My K-Hornet is 1-12, will stabilize it down to 1050 but not when it's cold.

[Bass Ackward]

I didnt think it was possible to drive a air-cooled wheel weight that fast. BTW, the bore never fouled at all.

I guess its time to dig out the .222, and take it higher than 2800.


Maniac,

Sometimes there are advantages to NOT knowing everything about cast and the limits that "knowledge" brings.

I will tell you that in over 50% humidity that I have here at 500 ft above SL, that 225415 will begin to melt in the air at 3200 fps. At 3500 you get oval vapor trails and it won't make a 100 target. If you want to go faster, you need a spitzer (pointy nose) to cut the friction of air. Or get high and dry somewhere like Arizona.

[9.3X62AL]

Maniac,

I will tell you that in over 50% humidity that I have here at 500 ft above SL, that 225415 will begin to melt in the air at 3200 fps. At 3500 you get oval vapor trails and it won't make a 100 target. If you want to go faster, you need a spitzer (pointy nose) to cut the friction of air. Or get high and dry somewhere like Arizona.

Now, THAT would be cool to see. Not real productive in terms of downrange utility, but still one of those things that would be interesting to see happen.

[mainiac]

How about some more info on your ultra ultra sonic loads

Ive loaded these cases up foir more tests today, and the cases that held the lilgun loads are about .005-.007 longer. Although primer pockets are still snug, i dont want to bust cases by shooting this hot. Use win cases,and cci-500 primers for all tests. 225415 is seated just deep anuff to hide top lube groove in neck. I dont have much choice with seating depths with this rifle, if you have one you know what i mean,, HAS to load threw the magizine,because you cant get to the chamber by fingers!!! Would like to jam the lands,and work up a load but i cant. Also cant neck-size only,because i have to tug the bolt handle to get them out unless i full-lenth the cases. It aint a pressure thing,,, i think i have a rough chamber,and it just grabs the case? or maybe the chamber is somewhat oblong,and unless the case goes back in exact it will stick? Another test, indexing cases!!! never thought of that with this gun. experimenting never ends! BTW, I never did make it to hodgdons max load of lilgun,before i ran into pressure signs. I thought i could go higher than a condom bullet with this cast boolit, Bullet weighs 48.5 grs with lube and check, cant use the 45 grain max load for sure! Can shoot the sierra 45 with max book loads with this same lot of powder. Always read where a cast lead bullet can squeeze out the bore with less friction, thereby giving higher velocities than jacketed , with the same powder charge? Dont seem to work in this example. More testing today, imr 4198 loads. Will report if you guys would like?

[felix]

You are getting excessive obturation. Make the boolits harder, or slow the powder. 4198 is too bulky most likely, so try WW680 or RL7 or both. Try RL7 first starting at the Lilgun load you used, and then increase to get the best load. Whatever that best load is, either up or down, use the same volume of WW680 for a tad slower ignition yet. If that still won't work, go even slower with the powder, using the likes of H322, IMR4475. Going that slow, you might want consider going the opposite direction by using smaller amounts of a faster powder than Lilgun. I suggest strongly BlueDot or N105. Also, because the case is so small, a rifle primer should shove that boolit far enough away before any powder ignition gets going, with the slow powders, even with Lilgun, 2400, V-V-110, 4227, WC820. Won't hurt to play this primer game with H110 or WW296. ... felix

[Bullshop]

BA
We must have way thinner air than you because I get good grouping to as high as 4300 fps. Our best loads in the 30/06 use a CBE mold for a 53gn .224" boolit in wcww and fired without lube or gas check. Average grouping is about 1 moa with no unusual streaks on the paper. The only unusual thing is that the holes in paper are not circular but multi flat sided. I think it has something to do with the land marks or impressions from the sabot pettals pressed into the boolit leaving small flats on the boolit and the boolit making about 1/8 of a turn while passing through the paper. We have never recovered a boolit but as I said I think the lands are pressing some kind of marks through the sabot or the petals of the sabot doing same.
Blessings
BIC/BS

[mainiac]

The best groups shot today,was with imr4198 powder. 12 grs only goes about 2300 f.p.s., but shot multiple groups of .700 or so @ 50 yards. It is quite a trick to get 12 in the hornet case. Have to drop slow,threw a 12 inch drop tube, and then it is 100% compressed load. The other real good shooting loads i found was a case full,full of h-4227, good for 2600 f.p.s. This thing so far acts just like my bench-rest rifles..... they shoot there best at ball-to-the-walls speed also. Annealed my cases again this evening,and will try some more next week-end. Winter is closing in on us up here,so my experimenting might slow up! Nothing compares to lilgun as far as making speed, but the accuracy is not really there. If i keep shooting this little cuss, i just may have to buy a real quality hornet. Rems little yugo mauser is chambered in it, and cz makes one also, hmmmmm!

[Bass Ackward]

BA
We must have way thinner air than you because I get good grouping to as high as 4300 fps. Our best loads in the 30/06 use a CBE mold for a 53gn .224" boolit in wcww and fired without lube or gas check. Average grouping is about 1 moa with no unusual streaks on the paper. The only unusual thing is that the holes in paper are not circular but multi flat sided. I think it has something to do with the land marks or impressions from the sabot pettals pressed into the boolit leaving small flats on the boolit and the boolit making about 1/8 of a turn while passing through the paper. We have never recovered a boolit but as I said I think the lands are pressing some kind of marks through the sabot or the petals of the sabot doing same.
Blessings
BIC/BS


Dan,

WCWW? Mold'em outta ACWW and see what happens. What's the nose shape too? The wider the meplat, the worse the effect. I am not familiar with the CBE mold you refer to.

[Bass Ackward]

If i keep shooting this little cuss, i just may have to buy a real quality hornet.


Just wait until you grab the 222 and see how much fun you have.

[Bullshop]

John
The CBE is over all much like the Lyman 225414 for nose shape but more of a Luverin body with micro band and lube grooves, possibly a bit shorter ogive.
I was not trying to bring into question what your results have been just really amazed at the differance our locations make. We are not very high in elevation prolly about 2500 fasl, but extreamly dry. Our average anual precip is less than 10". We are classed as semi arid whis seems to be about one click above desert. It is amasing what differance air dencity can make. You prolly have to deal with lots more wind drift than we do for long range, and drop too. I will just keep the boolits hard for this kind of speed as I doubt there will be any problems of lack of expansion.
Blessings
BIC/Daniel

[mainiac]

Just wait until you grab the 222 and see how much fun you have.

Bass, am looking forward to using the .222. But, id like to get this hornet thing out of my system first. Any hints on what powder to use? I only have this one boolit(225415), so i hope it is a kind of universal boolit for me. Ive read numerous times that 225438 is the one that should be used for accuracy. Cant seem to locate one. Knowing myself quite well, i probaly end up with multiple .22 molds some day!

[Bass Ackward]

I was not trying to bring into question what your results have been just really amazed at the differance our locations make. We are not very high in elevation prolly about 2500 fasl, but extreamly dry. Our average anual precip is less than 10". BIC/Daniel


Dan,

Excellent. And I wasn't thinking that you were.

But " I " am questioning my results. " I " would like to know what ACWW does at that level for you now, myself. Especially with your dry and high climate.

This will tell me if my theory is correct or if I was finally tearing up my ACWW.

No hurry though. Just the next time it is convenient, load three and report here or in a PM. :grin:

[Bass Ackward]

Bass, am looking forward to using the .222. But, id like to get this hornet thing out of my system first. Any hints on what powder to use? I only have this one boolit(225415), so i hope it is a kind of universal boolit for me. Ive read numerous times that 225438 is the one that should be used for accuracy. Cant seem to locate one. Knowing myself quite well, i probaly end up with multiple .22 molds some day!


4831 will probably give you the best groups at the highest velocity. And yes, the 225438 is a better candidate for HV accuracy. But if anyone ever walks up and offers you a hollow pointed 225450, TAKE IT!

[Bullshop]

Sure I can do that. It will have to wait until I can run off some acww as of late I have been quenching all the 22's. The greatest obstacle here will be remembering to cast some 22's when I have some ww's going.
BIC/BS