Leading Problem in P226 Sigs! Help!

[lead_her_fly]

I have several Sigs in 9mm. So knowing what I do about casting I chose a good mold. I got an H&G #7. It casts 125 grain @ .356 + with my alloy. Here is a picture of the mold.
http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/7.jpg

I am having some real hassles with leading in all of my P226. The powder I am using is HP-38. The range of powder weight has been from 4.0 grains to 4.4 grains. Now just to let you all know, I haven't chrono'd them yet. The lube I have been using is a home brew of 2/3 Beeswax and 1/3 White Label Liquid Xlox. In my revolvers this stuff is running of the end of the barrel after 100 rounds and I have virtually no leading.

I have been using an alloy in all of my rounds of 80% wheel weights and 20% Linotype. Wheel weights for the most part are reported to be somewhere in the 15 BHN area so adding the Linotype should make the mix a little harder. Still had leading problems. I went the other way and used only wheel weights and still had leading, I mean chunks were in the barrel.

I forgot to say that I was sizing them to .355.

Then I went to a .357 die thinking they were too small to obdurate. Still no better!

I have plenty of hair so even though I have pulled some of it out over this issue I don't want to go bald!

Help me PLEASE!

Thanks in advance!

[johnly]

I like the looks of the DC mold, with one cavity being a HP. Have a DC 356402, that I've been thinking of converting.

I shoot the 356402 in my 9mm pistols and haven't had any problems to speak of. I try a lube change, if that doesn't work I'd try lapping the bore.

John in Oregon

[Lee W]

Using the pressure BHN conversion, 32000psi avg./1422 you would need a BHN of around 22.5.
Water dropped WWs get there. With the added Lino, you will need to test them for BHN.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3211

[MT Gianni]

What does the bbl slug out at? Gianni

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

Lead_her_fly,
I think your bullet lube has too much beeswax. I suggest that you ask White Label for a bullet lube recommentation. The normal Alox lube is 50/50 beeswax and Alox. Shouldn't the Xlox lube be 50/50 beeswax and Xlox?

[robertbank]

First I would forget the .355 sizing die. I am surprised you haven't reported bullet tumbling. I, like you, sized mine that size and ran into no end of problems. I now size all my 9MM rds .357 and using Felix lube have yet to experience leading. I have three different 9MM pistols CZ85, Tanfoglio 5" Model "L" and the STI Trojan and none lead.

I use WW water quenched from the mold.

I shoot IDPA and want my loads to run close to the 125 power factor so I use 4.1 gr Win 231 giving me 1100fps with my truncated 125 gr boolit. (Identical to your boolit). Standard Deviation 6. That load is out of my CZ85 so you should get similar results with your 226. A load of 4 gr Unique gave me 1050fps with a SD of 8 out of the same gun using the same boolit. OAL 1.115

My guess is your lube isn't doing it for you. Make yourself up a batch of Felix lube, water quench your boolits right from the mold using straight WW and I think your problem will disappear. Incidently I have run hotter loads than the above without incurring leading.

Hope this helps,

Bob

[S.R.Custom]

The barrels of 9mm service pistols typically slug out at .357" or .358". You may have to go with a bullet as big as .359" or .360". Seriously. But you won't know 'til you slug the tube.

And yeah, that much HP-38 will require a harder alloy. Water quenched WW should be sufficient. And 50/50 on the lube ratio. Put all that together, and I'll bet you feel joy.

[lead_her_fly]

Lead_her_fly,
I think your bullet lube has too much beeswax. I suggest that you ask White Label for a bullet lube recommentation. The normal Alox lube is 50/50 beeswax and Alox. Shouldn't the Xlox lube be 50/50 beeswax and Xlox?

Hey Roger,

That is where I got the recipe for this lube. It runs out the barrel on my revolvers!
I can try some but it will be awhile as I have plenty of this stuff around!

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

lead_her_fly,
I have been using the White Label sticks of 50/50 Bees Wax/Alox in my 9mm without leading. The name Alox has been removed from the 50/50 lube on the web site. I do not know if the formula has changed. I have not tried the liquid Xlox or the Xlox 350. I cast with wheelweights and aircool the bullets. I size 0.357 inch.
I suggest that you ask Glenn Larsen at White Label lube for sample sticks of his lubes which he recommends to solve your leading problem. He asks you to pay the postage for samples. He sells 5 different stick lubes.

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome to the sometimes frustrating world of cast boolits in 9mm Luger barrels. Both of my SIG 9mm's (226 and 228) have throats and grooves at .357", and 92/6/2 boolits sized at .357" and lubed with Javelina give service-grade/jacketed bullet accuracy and zero leading.

[Larry Gibson]

I shoot lots of Lee 358-120-TC and Lyman's 358251 (both 120 gr) bullets cast of AC'd WWs through a CZ75. In the past I have also shot tons of 356402's through several M39s, a M59 and several HP35s. A friend regularly comes over and loads ammo for a Sig, he gets no leading. I've shot them sized .356, .357 and .358 with no leading. I use Javelina lube and Bullseye powder. I'd suggest you tumble lube some of your bullets as cast in LLA and shoot them. If no leading occurs it is the lube which I suspect as the problem.

Larry Gibson

[deltaenterprizes]

I used to cast bullets commercially for 12 years and got complaints from a couple customers when I first started casting 9mm 125 gr bullets of tumbling and excessive barrel leading.
One customer had a long talk with Bar-Sto barrels and was told that the twist rate of imported barrels is somthiing like 1 in 9 and that American barrel makers use the same as a .38 which is much slower. What is happening is that the bullet is stripping the rifling.
A slower burning powder like AA#7 helps with light bullets,but the best solution is a heavier bullet that has more bearing surface to grip the rifling better.
Automatics are made to shoot jacketed bullets and if you compare the rifling in a revolver the auto barrel looks like it is shot out! The rifling depth is half of the revolver barrel, two thousandths of an inch compared to .004" in a revolver barrel.

[robertbank]

I am not in the business of selling barrels but I think your friends at Bar-Sto were selling you horsefeathers. I have a CZ85, Tanfoglio, two Browning HP, an Inglis HP and a STI Trojan all in 9MM and they shoot 125 gr lead cast bullets using water quenched or unquenched WW without any sign of leading. I have also shot 115 gr lead cast bullets in the guns as well. All sized at .357. Excellent accuracy, no sign of tumbling. Velocitites ran to 1250 fps.

If this gentleman sizes his bullets to .357 and changes his lube his 226 will go about its business without any problems at all. A number of guys up here have Sig 226's shooting the same lead bullets without any leading as well.

Take Care

Bob

[mstarling]

Have shot maybe 20k rds of 9mm in the 226 and additional thousands in CZ 75 clones and subguns. Never had any significant leading.

I use slugs made of wheel weights with the Lyman 356402 mold. They have been sized to 0.356" and lubed with either NRA 50:50 Alox/Beeswax or Carnauba Red.

Were most often loaded to 1100 fps in the CZ 75 using 4.6 gr of WSF and WSP primers. They are faster from 10.5" barrels.