Hurricane Katrina

[walltube]

Fellers,

We in S.E. Louisiana are in the direct path of hurricane Katrina. My home, which I will be forced to evacuate, is expected to be at least 16 ft. under water. I do not know when I'll be able to visit-lurk- here again in the near future. I will miss reading all the fine threads by all the fine folks here.

Taking a hit such as this at this late stage of life will certainly test my mettle. And speaking of metal, ALL my firearms & precious moulds are packed in the van for the trip. Leaving them to a terrible fate of being immersed in salt water is akin to abondoning your best friends. Ain't gonna happen! :>)

I now bid you all adieu.

Yours To The Last WW..........Harold Leaming

[KB291]

Good luck and GOD SPEED. Dont forget the powder & primers!

[NVcurmudgeon]

Walltube, Get out with what you can, but don't leave it until too late. Hard to believe 16 feet under water. Do you have family or friends for a refuge? Our hopes and prayers are with you and all your neighbors.

[Scrounger]

Best wishes. I cannot imagine such a thing. Earthquakes weren't so bad...

[Herb in Pa]

Take care, hopefully things will work out.

[waksupi]

Walltube, that's a bad deal. We've been telling you, that below sea level living could catch up with you. I do hope the brunt of the storm bypasses your home. You have the strength to get through the trial.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm with Scrounger--earthquakes weren't much compared to Walltube's situaation. Best of luck, and I hope the dire predictions are a lot more newsman spin than actual occurrence.

[13Echo]

Come on up to Monroe. We'll get some, probably a lot, of wind but nothing like the coast. Katrina is now a catagory 5 with winds at 175mph. That could literally destroy New Orleans as bad as carpet bombing. Don't forget all the little towns and cities and not so little cities like Morgan City that are going to be devastated.

Jerry Liles

[buck1]

Its Up To Cat 5! Winds At 175 Mph! Time To Head For The Hills Buddy!! ..buck

[giz189]

Walltube, good luck and we will say a prayer for all of you in destructions path.

[carpetman]

Walltube--Hope you are not reading this as done headed for higher ground--good luck.

[Castboolitpreacher]

Walltube, I don't know you personally, but this 'ol preacher is gonna get on his knees and pray for THE LORD to protect you and your belongings cbp

[Rick N Bama]

I've just heard that the winds are now up to 184mph.

Here in N. Alabama, our forecast says that we could have winds of 80mph or greater. I've seen what 70 can do, it ain't pretty.

Godspeed to everyone in the path of this storm. Andrew was a pussycat by comparison.

Rick

[Maineboy]

Walltube, God bless you, your family and everyone else in the path of Katrina. Our thoughs and prayers are with you.

[Mel-4857]

Keep safe. You are in my prayers. Mel

[Turboman]

To all who are in the path of the storm,My Prayers are with you.

[MTWeatherman]

Walltube:
I hope that as this is being written, that you have already successfully evacuated...and that you read it while lurking in a safe location. Katrina looks vicious.

The best of luck to you, yours, and your home,...and to all in its path.

[johnch]

Best wishs for you and yours .

Johnch

[castalott]

Harold..I don't know you but like you already from your post...Is there a mailing address I can send you some money? ,....I'm not rich but I want to help...

Dale

How about it guys....we can't save them all....but we can help one of ours!

[1Shirt]

Walltube, Lets hope that 16 foot under just doesn't happen. Please keep us informed as soon as you can get back on line. Drive safe, and God Speed.
1Shirt

[Blackwater]

My hopes and prayers are with all you LA and MS folks.

[Ron]

Walltube, may your God go with you and lead you and yours to safety. News items in Melbourne are giving the winds at 250MPH potential with the likelyhood of levies around New Orleans being breached and the city engulfed. Our prayers are with you all.

Ron.

[Frank46]

walltube, I live in new iberia, if you don't have a place to crash head for here. I'm about 140 miles south west of new orleans so things should be somewhat better. At least we can check out each others toys and swap lies. if you've already split then I wish you all the best for you and your family. I'm an unlisted # so 337-856-1965.
Frank

[Frank46]

castalott, if you get walltubes address post here and will send what I can. Its the least I can do to help one of our fellow casters. Frank

[castalott]

Hi Frank!

That I will do....

That is a kind and gracious offer you have made... I'm glad people like you are still around...

Dale

[no_1]

News from my girlfriends ex-mother-in-law who lives in pensacola. Winds there are about 70 MPH and the power is out. With that kind of distance and those kinds of conditions in Pensacola, I cannot immagine what is going on in N.O.

I wish the best for those that are there. As a side note, I lived there from 73 to 79. We always had the threat of hurricanes but I was fortunate to not have been thru one there like what is happening now.

[LAH]

Sure glad I'm not down there. I have a friend who works for a tree cutting company. Guess he'll be heading that way to help with power outages. Our prayers are with you.

[Jetwrench]

Thanks Guys,
For all the prayers,thanks. As for me and mine we will be ok. I am 19 miles southwest of Alexandria. Pretty windy here, but we really lucked out so far. As for me my prayers will be for waltube and all those caught in the path of this monster. Alexandria is full of people from the south we have people staying in meeting rooms in hotels and in churches. GOD be with them all as they will need it in this dark hour. Jetwrench

[Blackwater]

Just FWIW, I'm way over in SE Georgia, and we just had a tornado about 10 mi. from my home. These beasts they call hurricanes cast some BIG shadows, so all you folks in the entire southeast keep close watch. These big swirlers give birth to a lot of "babies!"

[no_1]

Seems as if I am victim of the hurricane and also of the insurance company. The top of a large oak next to my house came out and landed on the edge of my house taking out the eave, then rolled off the roof and hit the 5th wheel causing damage to the outer skin on the front bedroom. My insurance company says that if there is a hurricane warning in the state in the last 72 hours, then a 2% of the house value deductible applies.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO, seems there was a hurricane warning in Pensacola today. I am getting screwed again........

Myt problems are only big to me. Please keep Walltube and those in the direct path at the top of your prayer list. I will be fine.

V/r

[PatMarlin]

My prayers go out to you guys back there.

I'm a native Californian, and have worked and lived in all parts of this state, and after the better part of 40 more years- till this day have never felt an earthquake.

Yet every year those hurricanes and tornados come. It's is unbelievable... :shock:

[Powderkeg]

$60,000question = How many nations will now come to our aid?

[Frank46]

Powderkeg, you know its funny you should mention foreign aid for those affected by the disaster. Foxnews had a quick subtitle on their coverage of the damages caused by the hurricane this morning. I propose a fair and balanced solution for foreign aid. If you help us out in our time of need then we will do likewise. But if no help is forthcoming when we have problems then when its your turn, its your problem. The U.S. is always there to lend a hand, but when it comes time for others to recriprocate then no or few countries respond. Sorry for the rant. Frank

[carpetman]

Yea I figure Ethiopia will send a care package of food. All their wealth from inventing venitician blinds---they used em for bunk beds.

[Castboolitpreacher]

If you will, post his address, I'll help. C'mon everyone. 100 people sending as little as $20 to $50 would be a great help. My checkbook is open. I'm waiting. cbp

[Blackwater]

No. 1, check with your state insurance commissioner on what your ins. co. tells you. They DO sometimes "make mistakes," you know? Darn sure worth a call, I'd think.

[eljefe]

No.1, are they suggesting the damage to your trailer will be subject to the homeowner's deductible? Depending on your coverage, that may be two seperate claims; homeowner's and a comp claim on the trailer. Comp deductibles are normally a good bit lower than a homeowner's deductible.

I would suggest getting a copy of the current contract, and read it thoroughly. There may be some confusion on their part due to the volume of claims they are processing. We don't have hurricane deductibles in Maryland where I live and sell insurance, so I am not familiar with what would trigger a special deductible to apply. I hope things work out for you.

Mike

[Urny]

Preacher, are you going to set this up? If so, I am in.

[waksupi]

I'll kick in. People are supposed to give as an individual, and not a collective government. If we can ship bullets back and forth to each other, we can certainly come up with a bit of money to help, as little as it may be in the whole.

[Frank46]

Castalott, I live in a little town called new iberia in iberia parish. After seeing what remained of I-10 by lake ponchartrain I thought about how many gun shows I have gone to in kenner. The convention center is located behind a huge levee just off the missippi (ok so I can't spell worth a darn, but you know what I mean) So for now and the near and not so near forseeable future there won't be any gun shows there for some time. We are located about 140 miles southwest of new orleans and I thank God that all we received was some rain and wind. I'm origionally from new york and for the past ten years have heard what would happen if any of the levee's were breeched. Well I'm a believer now. Supposedly Gov. Blanco will order a complete evacuation of new orleans as the flooding is getting worse and they have no infrastructure with which to handle it. My wifes family is from St. Benard & Plaquemaines parishes. They lost just about everything. My heart goes out to all of them. May God bless them all.
Frank

[no_1]

Mike,
The Co. called back yesterday and told me the 5th wheel will come under my auto policy which has a $500 deductible (normal price) due to the fact that this was damage cause by "an act of nature" so it will not be covered by my homeowners policy. The house is a different story. Seems they feel a hurricane came thru my area and are trying to apply a 2% of the house value deductible instead of my normal $500 deductable. I politely explained to them that the nearest hurricane(s) to my area were on friday in Miami which was 400 miles south of me and then on monday morning the same hurricane was in New Orleans which is 400 miles west of me. At this point they tried to use the "windstorm" clause and still apply the 2% deductible to me. I explained again that I felt this was neither hurricane or windstorm damage. She ask me what I thought happened and I told her that it was just bad luck / bad timing. It was just a heavy rainstom and the top came out of the tree. I also told her that I had just spent pretty big $$$ getting my trees trimmed mid-july of all dead appearing branches. In the end she told me I was talking to the wrong group at the Co. and tried to transfer me to the right group which was already closed for the day. I will call today but feel I will not get a fair shake when it is all over. I just find it hard to imagine that a company I have been doing business with for about 25 years wants to give me the run-around. I cannot imagine what those people who lost everything will have to go thru.

I will keep those interested updated as news comes in.

Robert
No.1, are they suggesting the damage to your trailer will be subject to the homeowner's deductible? Depending on your coverage, that may be two seperate claims; homeowner's and a comp claim on the trailer. Comp deductibles are normally a good bit lower than a homeowner's deductible.

I would suggest getting a copy of the current contract, and read it thoroughly. There may be some confusion on their part due to the volume of claims they are processing. We don't have hurricane deductibles in Maryland where I live and sell insurance, so I am not familiar with what would trigger a special deductible to apply. I hope things work out for you.

Mike

[castalott]

I'm short on time ..but I'm in! Surely we can help some of our members....

Dale

[Wayne Smith]

#1, I personally am in favor of posting the name of the companies that screw us to warn off others. After 25 years with the same company, I believe you may qualify as the screwee! If they make it right let us know.

If we take up a collection for members in need, I'll be there. Someone needs to organize it. I don't believe that mail will be delivered in that area for some time, so someone needs to be able to find those in need.

[no_1]

Wayne,
I just got off the phone with a very nice adjuster that happens to live in Ga. (gotta love those southern gals) who understands completely. After some research they now know that I was not in the hurricane path. They have also told me how sorry they are for the confusion to the tune of reducing my deductable to $100 (at this point I told her I loved her twice!). I am very pleased with this outcome. Now to get the same company straightened out on the 5th wheel....

I have not listed the name of the company as of yet because I do not want to put the "bad mouth" on them then have to retract it.

Like I said before, my problems are only big to me. There are many who are WAY worse off than me. I will be fine. I always bounce back, sometimes it just takes longer than other times. Please keep your hearts and prayers on those who have totally lost everything but life itself. They need us more now than ever. I don't have a lot but can certainly cut back on the hot dogs and Ramon noodles to scrape something together for our brothers like WALLTUBE who have totally lost all.

Robert

#1, I personally am in favor of posting the name of the companies that screw us to warn off others. After 25 years with the same company, I believe you may qualify as the screwee! If they make it right let us know.

If we take up a collection for members in need, I'll be there. Someone needs to organize it. I don't believe that mail will be delivered in that area for some time, so someone needs to be able to find those in need.

[felix]

Robert, an insurance company is as good as its agent, and no more. You must NOT go through claims unless it is an iron clad loss, in clear black and white, within the policy. Instead, go through your agent who has discretionary funds. If you find out your agent does not have these kind of funds, then get another insurance company, but ONLY through an agent whom you know with mutual trust. Agents for State Farm, for example, have a 5,000 dollar fund per loss. NEVER, NEVER assume an insurance company will pay off. They won't unless you take them to court, and then you will only get 2/3 rds of the loss repaid, the rest to the lawyer you had to hire. There is no more hand shake honesty to be found when money is involved. Those days are over! ... felix

[Blackwater]

Felix, you're darn close to right there, but personally, I try not to do business with anyone whose word I wouldn't trust, even in the absence of a contract. Nobody gets to do that in business anymore, though, but there ARE a few left. Funny thing, though, most of them seem to be over 50, like me, and those folk grew up in another world with another set of people in a land now far, far away.

[felix]

Just for you, Blackwater, and commensurate with your findings:
.................................................. ........................................

Sunday's sermon was - Forgive Your Enemies.

Toward the end of the service, the Minister asked, "How many of
you have forgiven your enemies?" 80% held up their hands.

The Minister then repeated his question. All responded this time,
except one
small elderly lady.

"Mrs. Jones, are you not willing to forgive your enemies?"

"I don't have any." She replied, smiling sweetly.

"Mrs. Jones, that is very unusual. How old are you?"

"Ninety-eight." she replied.

"Oh Mrs. Jones, would you please come down in front and tell us
all how a person can live ninety-eight years & not have an enemy in the
world?"

The little sweetheart of a lady tottered down the aisle, faced
the congregation, and said: "I outlived the bitches."

[waksupi]

After thinking about it today, I'm going to suggest making the donations through the Salvation Army. I think they are probably the most efficient at handling funds.
I know we were thinking of only helping board members, but all those people in trouble down there, are members, as citizens of this country. We can help out the individuals we know when they let thier needs be known, but too much needs done at this time.
What's worse, hurricane season is just starting.

[SharpsShooter]

Castalott,

I agree completely. If we can help, we oughta. Hope all is well with you Harold.

[Wayne Smith]

I agree with the Salvation Army, 'cause they have a permenant presence. I would also suggest the Mennonite Relief Fund, 'cause they have minimal overhead and a long term committment. They stay until the job is done, rotating crews through all their churches. They may still be there five years later. It's a wonderful organization if you are not aware of it. Agencies like the Red Cross get the lion's share of the donaitons, but they have a large overhead and are typically gone in a few months.

[Castboolitpreacher]

Of course there are a few good organizations we should contribute to, but that post from walltube got to me. A fellow boolit caster in trouble. If someone can post his temporary adress, or that of a close (read honest) relative, then it would be nice if we sent a few checks that way also. Need to include a note: Do NOT pay this back. cbp

[Wayne Smith]

Sorry, I wasn't meaning exclusively. If we hear from Walltube and he is in need, my contribution will be at least the cost of a mold. I can do with one 8mm mold in my life, at least until I find if my rifle will shoot the one I have! I concurr with Castbulletpreacher, when we can care for one of our own I for one want to.

[carpetman]

Heard on the news that Fats Domino is missing. He was last seen on his roof with his family. Be showing your age if you know who he is.

[PatMarlin]

I know Fats and I'm 46 Carpetman... and now I feel old.. :coffee: [smilie=1: :Fire: :shock:

[carpetman]

PatMarlin---You must have taken out time from your search on Blueberry Hill to respond.

[carpetman]

Heard on the news that Australia donated 7.6 million to help us---Thanks Mates.

[StarMetal]

I heard on the news today too that ALOT of countries donated through the Red Cross, including the Hondura's, whatever that was suppose to mean.

Joe

[PatMarlin]

They found Fats and his family, and they are safe!!

I visit blueberry hill often... :lol:

[grumble]

I just heard on the news that the various relief organizations are looking for volunteers to help take care of the 15,000 perople stuck in the Superdome.

Pardon me, but just what the hell are those 15,000 people doing? Are they too busy to volunteer?

[carpetman]

Pat Marlin---Was Fats Walkin? Perhaps Walkin to New Orleans? Aint that a Shame if they didnt find him? Perhaps a Blue Monday?

[Jetwrench]

Gentlemen I would like to address the issue of the violence in New Orleans. I live SE of Alexandria. I would like everyone to know that the character of the people of the state of Louisiana is not well represented. Most of the people in this state are good people. I find what is happening down there with a few idiots with stolen guns is personally embarrassing and would ask that you dont judge all of us by the actions of a few people who are stealing air other people could be breathing. Jetwrench

[grumble]

Aww, shucks, Jetwrench, you're taking all the fun out of stereotyping.

I was in Alex in the early 70s, and I know folks there are some fine people. I gotta say, though, I'm not too impressed with what I'm seeing of NO.

[PatMarlin]

Pat Marlin---Was Fats Walkin? Perhaps Walkin to New Orleans? Aint that a Shame if they didnt find him? Perhaps a Blue Monday?

You can cut it out now C-Ray...

I've been hearin' a certain "Hill" in my head all day.. [smilie=b: :shock: :p

[Scrounger]

Pat Marlin---Was Fats Walkin? Perhaps Walkin to New Orleans? Aint that a Shame if they didnt find him? Perhaps a Blue Monday?

CarpetDude, why are you here annoying people? There must be hundreds of sheep trapped in fences you could be helping... [smilie=2: :twisted: [smilie=w:

And if you're expecting an increased COLA fram this disaster, you just haven't been paying attention... In spite of food, gas, cars, electricity, and everything else you can name increasing 10% to 15% a year, I have yet to see a COLA over 3% during a Republican Administration. They use New Math on it. Inflation is computed on MSRPs which are so ridiculously high they are never exceeded. Then during Democratic Admins, the MSRPS themselves are jumped up which makes the Demos look bad. :twisted: :p

[sundog]

JW (Jetwranch), I've mentioned before that I was at England AFB for a year and a half in early 70s. Had opportunity to meet locals. Loved it there. Best friend from basic and tech school and after he returned from Nam was a coonass (respectfully, because he and his family took me in even though I was a yankee) from Lutcher. A good friend forever - I gar-own-tee! Wish I could get ahold of him (tried and phoen service is out) to see if he and family are okay. SIL's grandmother is in Baton Rouge and doing okay. Feller at work has inlaws who finally turned up in San Antonio today. Bad things can happen to good people. It tests their mettle. It weaves the fabric of the nation. As is the case everywhere else, there are scumbag, lowlife, nonhuman life forms that exist and unfortunately some (many) vote, consume precious commodities such as fresh water, and suck fresh air from the atmosphere. I always kinda liked what Rooster told the Judge in the movie when the Judge thought he killed too mant men, "Never shot a man what didn't need shootin'."

About what's happened in NO, some of them bastards needed shootin'! And I'm not talking about helping themselves to groceries and medical supplies. Shows a substantial lack of moral fiber. No character. sundog

[waksupi]

Gentlemen I would like to address the issue of the violence in New Orleans. I live SE of Alexandria. I would like everyone to know that the character of the people of the state of Louisiana is not well represented. Most of the people in this state are good people. I find what is happening down there with a few idiots with stolen guns is personally embarrassing and would ask that you dont judge all of us by the actions of a few people who are stealing air other people could be breathing. Jetwrench

I'm still amazed at those who watch the talking heads, and assume they are seeing the truth. They work on the assumption that the inteligence of the typical American, is, "Seeing is believing"
Pick your color of crook in you local jails and prisons and turn them loose. Report back on the stats of who did the crime. No doubt, it will be the career criminals.

[Blackwater]

All my friends in MS and AL are O.K. A few had damage to their homes, but they're "good ol' boys," and know how to handle this. They "sort it out." One was visiting another, having a few adult beverages, and clowning around. Even put up a pic on another site of the fun and games.

The human spirit varies, according to its holder, and what you are seeing on TV is NOT of these type folks. It's only of the loudest voices complaining that someone isn't coming to do what they won't do for themselves. Some of them wouldn't work in a pie factory!

THEIR human spirits are weak. They've been taken care of for so long, they can't even imagine doing for themselves.

The liberal politicians aren't any better. They have a mess, they saw it coming, had plenty of notice, and don't have a clue about what to do. Because they're loathe to admit that, they're following their constituents' example, and howling the the big nanny Fed. gov't to come in and do what THEY should be doing, planning all the while to stand and criticize as the Feds do their best to sort it all out.

THIS is NOT a GOOD thing for this country to have fallen into, but it's been developing for at least 40 years, and more like 70.

Yes, there are folks in the wake of Katrina who couldn't move out, who are sick or lame, etc. and can't fend for themselves completely in the situtation, and for these folks I have sympathy. Not a whit for the rest, though. Their only talent in life is whining and increasing their ranks - and sometimes crime. They're stewing in their own juices, and even God can't help those who won't help themselves, so who am I to even try what God can't do?

What we're seeing is the direct and inevitable result of 40 years of increasingly liberal thought on our nation ..... and it ain't pretty. Many told it would wind up this way, but the masses didn't listen .... and now they've got exactly what they earned.

I feel for the good folks who are having to endure being caught up in this mess. Somehow, most good folks seem to have a knack for surviving. Ever notice that?

[carpetman]

I have seen tornadoes in my hometown of Wichita Falls. One back in the early 60's brought some looting and it did get handled in a hurry. In 1995 we had a tornado and severe hail storm here. What really surprised me was how quickly houses got put back together. In very short order things looked normal again. Roofing crews could be seen everywhere. Lots from out of town. Most did the right thing and hauled the trash to the dump site and paid the fee. A few found a desolate area and made an ilegal dump to save a buck. My house was damaged in the 95 storm. My purple martin flock was pretty well wiped out. I was down a day or two,but roll up sleeves and go to it and it will soon be back in order. This damage was minor compared to the problems that have to be dealt with on the gulf coast. Insurance companies will take a big hit which will in turn be back on the customer. It will put money into the area and create work for those willing for awhile.

[Junior1942]

Some of you guys simply overflow with the milk of human kindness. I wonder how many of us would tend to get very vocal, and even violent, if our child started crying because it had no food or water for 24 hours or more.

[kenjuudo]

Some of you guys simply overflow with the milk of human kindness. I wonder how many of us would tend to get very vocal, and even violent, if our child started crying because it had no food or water for 24 hours or more.

It has been my experiance that people of strong moral fiber tend to stick more fiercly to their beliefs during times of trouble or hardship.

[PatMarlin]

We don't watch TV up here, but for me being an animal lover, one of the stories that have touched me most (if it isn't BS) is the one where the familiy had to board an evacuation bus, and the kid had to leave the family pet behind. The kid cried until he just threw up.

Now I'm not built that way. There would have to be Nazi Germans at gunpoint, or armed Kmere Rouge henchman on that bus before I would let that happen.

I would fight before being led like sheep.

[grumble]

Some of you guys simply overflow with the milk of human kindness. I wonder how many of us would tend to get very vocal, and even violent, if our child started crying because it had no food or water for 24 hours or more.


Conversly, I wonder how many of us here would allow ourselves to get into a position where we couldn't provide food and water for our families?

[Jetwrench]

sundog,
After EAFB closed I worked in the 5 hangars on the east side of the runways from 2000 - 2004 doing heavy maintenance on commercial jets. Wife is 3/4 coonass 1/4 irish GOD what a temper, but a good woman. Between you, me and the barn door, the air sucking SOB's shooting people are being repaid in kind, and not a moment too soon. One poster ask about hungry / thirsty children, I wonder if he would have let his children stay in a cat 4 / 5 hurricane. NOT me folks I was set to evac, with wife and kids (3). One must at the very least take some personal responsibility. I know some could not get out, but 10's of thousands come on folks that is bullshit. N O failed from the mayor on down to the citizen some through a lack of planning and some through incompetence. Bet the mayor doesn't get another term. Jetwrench

[grumble]

"...I know some could not get out, but 10's of thousands come on folks that is bullshit. N O failed from the mayor on down to the citizen some through a lack of planning and some through incompetence. Bet the mayor doesn't get another term."

Wonder if there will be a NO to be mayor of? <GGG>

Some couldn't get out? That's due to very poor leadership at the state and local level. Take a look at this:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

(Tried to cut and paste the URL of just the pic to post here, but couldn't past it in. Sorry.)

[carpetman]

Jetwrench---I think there is a very high degree of accuracy in your assessment that many of the folks in trouble today failed to take responsibility for their on well being. I also suspect that a very high percentage of the folks in trouble have used food stamps/welfare as their way of life possibly for 2-3 generations. Why do I think that? There was ample warning time to get out of Dodge. Katrina was tracked for a long time and predicted spot of when and where it would hit was well known with plenty of advance warning. Walltube,for example, had plenty of time to tell us,my house is expected to be under water,I'm outta here for higher ground---he showed responsibility. I was a welfare/food stamp case worker and very strongly had thoughts that it promoted irresponsibility. Give them a fish vs teach them to fish. To hold a job for example, requires a degree of responsibility. Employers expect you to show up for work. But it was ok to miss food stamp appointments and show up at closing time a couple of weeks later and get emergency food stamps. At 5PM they are penniless and at 7PM when I went to my part time job calling BINGO,they are there as a paying customer. (They aren't working--why did they wait until 5PM to show up?---but gosh you can't ask that) They were broke at 5PM---where did they come up with $50 to play BINGO?---can't ask that either.) Here on this board there are several years of military service represented. I would bet heavily that the incident of lost ID cards is very low. Repeat offenders even lower. Not so dealing with food stamp ID cards,way of life for many and there was no penalty. Drop what you are doing and give them a new card---AGAIN. A big part of the problem seemed to be that the folks making the policy were not the folks with hands on experience effecting the policies. Just a few examples of the many ways irresponsibility is promoted. Do that for awhile and the ability to make decisions on their own gets lost---someone else taking care of them becomes a way of life and they get stuck in New Orleans.

[Herb in Pa]

Some of you guys simply overflow with the milk of human kindness. I wonder how many of us would tend to get very vocal, and even violent, if our child started crying because it had no food or water for 24 hours or more.

"To the extent one depends on the government for their day to day survival will determine the level of destruction when the government fails to deliver. Government dependence is the heaviest chains one can ever bear. "Who is going to help me, who is going to fed me, who is going to provide shelter for me, who is going to give me something to drink, who is going to protect me? ..Bla, bla, bla. The footage of this social experiment speaks volumes. No personal responsibility.... "

- MKHartwig -

[Junior1942]

Blaming the poor for being poor is like blaming the bank for a robbery. From sad experience I can say that many of you are only one arterial blood clot away from poverty.

[grumble]

Blaming the poor for being poor is like blaming the bank for a robbery. From sad experience I can say that many of you are only one arterial blood clot away from poverty.

It's even worse than that, Junior. We're only one "arterial blood clot" away from being DEAD! <GGG>

And, you're right: I'd sure enough blame the bank for the robbery if they left all the cash out on the front sidewalk, unguarded.

[Jetwrench]

Junior1942,
I dont blame the poor for being poor. And for those in real need the social programs are very much needed. I dont think this should be a way of life, as it is now with a lot of the 3 generation strong baby factories that you see on the tv saying oh pity us. Where is the pity for the really disabled. Where is the pity for the old people, on fixed really small incomes, ahh but they arent on tv. Mores the pity. I was raised in what now would be called poverty. Borne is 68 my mother sewed our clothes from flower and feed sacks, me and my two brothers. We raised most of our food in a small garden. I am by no means even middle class now. I dont want to start a debate or stir shit, I hope I dont offend any one, but being poor is not the same as being a married to the goverment baby factory. Jetwrench

[sundog]

Wow, what a discussion. A little while ago I heard that about 2,000 of our fellow citizens have arrived at Camp Gruber (Muskogee, Oklahoma - WWII home to the 'Rainbow Division' and a German POW camp) Later a NG training base. I hope they are more comfortable now. But, it's miserable hot here today. I was out trimming and had to quit as the temp is ~100 and humidity the same. Jumped in the pool to cool off. Those folks, even if they could before (go in the poll, that is), may not have a home now. Anyone know any fate of Lutcher or Pauline, Louisina? I sure would like to get in touch with my friend, Melvin Brignac. Ordinarly I would not put a man's name on the web, but these are extraordinary circumstances.... sundog

[Scrounger]

Jetwrench, I too grew up poor, had cousins that were much poorer. Even now my income is probably in the bottom 10% of members here. But I have all I want. I see the need for help from the government at some level. But it is grossly mis-handled. We can probably blame the lawyers for much of this. Give the poor food, give them a place to stay, keep the family together, give them training so they can get a job and be independent, give them LOTS of training on managing their lives. Never give them money. They should be housed and confined in a secure area, and NOBODY else (live in boy friends, gang members, drug dealers) gets in. And trainees get out only for training or to work. You have to prohibit contact with the people that caused the problems in the first place. Call me Hitler if you like, but this is the only way you break the cycle.

[Bret4207]

Junior- There's no lack of compassion for the law abiding poor who are there due to circumstances beyond their control- phyical or mental handicaps, parents who didn't let their kids know they could make something of themselves, people without job skill too I supose. Where the compassion stops is for those who won't TRY. Why they don't TRY is for those who study such things to figure out. I've had people tell me I'm a lucky SOB 'cuz I got a good job. They're right I'm lucky. Lucky I knew enough to stay away from drugs, crime, underage girls, stolen guns, and all that. Lucky enough to have taken a competetive exam, twice, and gotten through the background investigation. Lucky to have had enough pride to strive for a little more than sitting around drinking beer in my folks bar all day. My story is no different than a zillion other guys stories. There's scads of assistance and help for those who seek it, especially for minorities. All they have to do is TRY and follow a few simple rules. It's partly societys fault for making it easier to sit or steal or deal drugs, but the ultimate blame rests with those who don't TRY to better themselves. I'll help anybody who needs a hand, but I'm not blind to those who are taking from the system rather than trying to contribute something. I don't care what color a guy is or what his beliefs or background is as long as he's trying to be a good citizen and follows the basic rules.

[grumble]

Some smart guy once said, "there's no shame in povery; the shame is in not trying to overcome it."

[carpetman]

Junior1942---No doubt my post was one that came across to you as blaming the poor for being poor. Not the point. Certainly some are in situations out of their control. Most are in their situation due to irresponsibility and no motivation to improve. Gosh if they have 3 kids already and #4 on the way and they are not 21 yet,don't you think they should have figured out the cause by now? I worked in two programs that dealt with folks not having enough money. One was the Air Force Aid Society and that was dealing with "financial emergencies" of military.(I dealt with all branches as there is reciprocal agreement between the branches---in other words at an Army post and Army person would be handling an Air Force person,same as I handled Army,Navy,Marines at my base as well as Air Force). I can truthfully say,what I really was handling was financial mismanagement. Here,you could take a responsible individual and teach them better ways and help them get out of the rut. I found this very satisfying and self rewarding. Certainly they had a steady job and the chance of success was much higher. It was a case of teach them to fish----and they had the desire and were willing to help themselves. Not to brag---just fact---I was not required to give them financial counseling. I could just write out the check and send them on their way. But it was required that I review their application,which did include their budget. With that much information,to not take the time to help them prevent getting in the same situation again didnt make sense to me. I showed them how they could start saving money by buying US Savings bonds through allotment(payroll deduction). This sounded like a good idea while they were in my office,but many neglected to go to finance and get the allotment started. So I went to finance and got big stacks of the allotment forms and set up 12 folders---one for every month. The forms were completed in my office and the agreement was,if they called and requested it,I would pull the form,otherwise on that month it went to finance and the bonds would start. Simple. It worked. (I had taught them to fish and they were catching fish). Repeat business dropped to about zero. I would see a lot of these people and they would come to me and tell me how well it was working. The little base I was on,was the #1 base in the whole Air Force my last year on active duty. The other program I worked in was the food stamp/welfare program and although they had the same basic purpose--giving finacial assistance to those in need,they were complete opposites. In MOST instances it was a matter of people with no sense of responsibility and no desire to help themself. If they lack those two traits and have no ambition to change,yes I blame those poor for being poor. Our newspaper has a weekly "For the records" section that lists by name those arrested. When I worked in the food stamp/welfare office I would recognize a vast majority of the names every week. If they put half the effort into finding and keeping a job as they did into finding ways to go to jail,they could have supported themselves.

[Rick N Bama]

Junior1942, I don't blame anyone for getting food & drink for their babies or for themselves as far as that goes. It's the taking of TVs, cases of beer, etc that I have a problem with. Those folks shouldn't be able to breath the same air that you & I do.

Jetwrench, The label in my shirts used to say "4-12-12"

Rick

[drinks]

The hardest part is trying to figure out why anyone would live below sea level, next to saltwater.
It has been known for at least 100 years, that N.O. was just a disaster waiting to happen.
At least, after Galveston took it in 1900, the people who stayed raised the town 16' and built a concrete sea wall with massive groins for support.
The people of N.O. just waited, fat, happy and dumb, for it.
This is partly human nature and very much a result of the welfare state.
I can remember plenty of people telling how they survived the depression and coped with WWII, people took advantage of what they had and made do, waste was not an option.
The most stupid thing I have heard out of this mess was, W saying on TV today "We will rebuild the beautiful city of N.O. again"
This is the sort of inane drivel you expect from pols and bureaucrats.
The people in charge should have the refugees out working in the rubble ,salvageing the millions of board feet of dimension lumber and hundreds of thousands of square feet of sheet goods, as well as the durable fixtures, sinks, lavatories and commodes, as well as piping and masonry, all items that are going to be needed in any rebuilding efforts, are going to be in short supply and are going to cost at least twice as much as they would have last week.
Too much to hope for.
Don

[Jetwrench]

Oh where to start, scrounger I totaly agree with you it would work.

Rick N Bama we favored 13-13-13.

drinks figureing out people fron New Orleans is like figureing out a woman, dont even try it. They will rebuild on the same spot, you can bet the farm. Cajun French people are a breed apart, damn nice people unless you wrong them, but that is another story.

I think they should be sifting the rubble , I would be.

And last I agree with Tpr. Bret. Because that is what we are seeing, the dregs of New Orleans. Color has nothing to do with it, or even creed, just a basic sense of right and wrong. A man's heart will talk to him if he will just listen. Jetwrench

[Junior1942]

The hardest part is trying to figure out why anyone would live below sea level, next to saltwater.
It has been known for at least 100 years, that N.O. was just a disaster waiting to happen.And why would anyone want to live in California? We all know that one of these days it's slipping into the ocean. It's just a matter of time.

[PatMarlin]

personally...

I've bee waiting for that California- ocean drop thing so my place becomes ocean front property.

Then- I won't have to drive so far to launch my boat.. :Fire: [smilie=2:

[grumble]

Good points. Or, live in a forest subject to fires, in a mobile home in tornado alley, on a hillside that can slump into the valley below, or where there's a danger of avalanch.

I guess we live where we like, not where we're safe from every potential danger. I can't criticize anyone for living where they do, I criticize them for a) not taking necessary precautions, or b) complaining that someone else didn't take care of them for the risk they assumed for themselves.

[PatMarlin]

I live smack dab in the middle of remote forest. No fire hydrant around here.

But if I have about 4 hours notice, I have a plan in place, and can hook up and pull out to safety, and not totally loose my arse. Just let her burn at that point.

This is the risk we take, to live the way we love. It can all be taken away in a few moments.. :shock: :)

[shooter2]

Could've, would've, should've...

Hind sight is 20-20 as they say. We can all sit back and ask questions about why thousands of people stayed behind. You can see them on the roof and the submerged car out front on the street. At the very least, one wonders why they didn't drive to high ground somewhere. Hell, we all make stupid mistakes. I certainly have my share.

Most of these folks are poor not by choice. Sure as hell Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton are not going to help them as they're too busy bitching at what a horseshit job us white folks are doing. Also, Al and Jesse are wondering how badly this is going to affect their fund raising efforts over the next year.

That said (and in spite of it), I am still going to dig into my pocket and contribute to the Salvation Army or through my church. I prayed and found that I had to do this for my own sake and peace of mind. FWIW...

[Wayne Smith]

Well, interesting discussion. We're also in hurricane alley, being in Tidewater, Virginia. When we moved here LOML, the geologist, said we could buy on one condition - the house had to be at least 20 ft. above mean sea level. We are at 23 ft. and out of all the flood zones, even a cat. 5. After living through a <1 2 years ago we've decided that we'll stay up through a 2, over 2 and we're gone. Grab the good stuff, guns, molds, and computer with the financial's on it, basic tools, and move the shop vac to the 2nd floor. We'll be in Lynchburg before it hits.

If we stay it's load up on the water, get a generator with gas for refrigeration, load up on food and some good books. Make sure I have gas/oil for the chain saw. Camp stove, grill, and smoker for cooking. I always have charcoal on hand. Candles and lamps for light. Last time we were out of power for 10 days. It'll be longer if it's a 2.

Anyway, that's the basic plan, and we had a practice run 2 years ago.

[grumble]

Atta boy, Wayne. Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away, know when to run.

Planning like that ain't hard. But it makes the difference between hardship (or worse) and comfort. The one thing I see most people underestimating is the need for water and a place to take care of business if the sewers back up. A few spare 55 gal drums can sure solve some problems.

[carpetman]

Shooter2---Making a spur of the moment stupid mistake is one thing,but when you have a week to think it over??

[shooter2]

Shooter2---Making a spur of the moment stupid mistake is one thing,but when you have a week to think it over??

Ray, they've had years to think it over and still were not prepared. Nevertheless, I decided not to punish them for their stupidity. Also, there are a lot of people like walltube, who did leave, and now while facing disaster, need a helping hand. I'll do what I can.

That we have at least two generations of people who have been raised thinking that the world owes them a living because they're black or otherwise in a minority, is a "whole 'nother problem". We will not fix it in my lifetime, but I would surely like to see a start. Will this tragedy be the catalyst? I hope so, but hold no hope that it will.

[Blackwater]

I just think it's kinda' interesting that folks in AL, MS and TX aren't having the kind of problems that they're having in NO. Seems to me that there's a difference in the leadership in those places, and I'm talking local and state leadership here. I guess those LA leaders planned on pawning off the blame in the aftermath of a blow like this, which they KNEW would come ... not might, but WOULD ... onto the Feds all along, and THEN they planned on whining and cursing the Feds for not doing what THEY should already have done.

Junior, you're a good man, and I don't have any quarrel at all with your sympathy for the folks who are in a bad way. I have a strong notion that you'd be among the FIRST to deal with the rapists, looters and general ne'er do wells who are causing so much trouble in the cleanup there, too.

All I'm saying is that there's one HELL of a lot of difference in what's happening where, and WHY it's happening there to the extent it is, and how it's being dealt with wherever it occurs. It gripes me GREATLY to see "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would put it, NOT broadcast about all this. All we're getting is .... well, it sure as heck ain't the FULL story, I can tell you THAT.

My daughter in law is in Biloxi, MS. She left her home in S.E. GA with Ga. Power, part of Southern Company, to help in the cleanup. It was a required task, not voluntary. There's some looting and misbehavior near her in MS also, but NOT to anything like the extend that's going on in NO. There's been MUCH better management of all the things that happen there. It's just "politically incorrect" for the news folk to point out the lackings of liberal leadership.

Go to: http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026

This guy puts a lot into perspective that you're just not hearing in the mass media, and it makes me angry NOT to hear it. We may be said to live in the "Age of Information," but unfortunately MUCH of that 'information' is bogus, and aimed solely at the control of the general public's information intake valves (if any are present in some cases) and at preserving SOME folks' power, despite their inability to use it effectively or for the betterment of their voters.

It's going to be REAL interesting to see how the next LA elections go.

[Buckshot]

............What's happening with the dregs of humanity in NO is the exact same thing that happened here in So. Calif after the Rodney King trial and the Watts riots of the 60's. You have the low life scumbag filth being opportunistic and basicly trampling the helpless. Whether it's actually physical or the fact that they're expending energy doing the opposite of helping, is the same thing.

In the Rodney King riots you had news camera's right there on the street filming these idiots casually walking into stores through the busted out display windows, and walking out with all manner of merchandise. They're laughing and carrying on, and it's a big ole lark for them. Kids whose parents should skin alive with double armloads of tennis shoes (or whatever they call athletic shoes these days.

Literally just how freaking STOOOPID are people when they burn down their own friggin neighborhood and vandelize the few merchants brave enough to even try to run a business in the neighborhood.

Of course there were the Korean store owners who grabbed their AR15's and AK47 clones and shotguns and stood guard on the roofs of their stores. I hope some of that is happening where it needs to be happening in LA.

Ya know, poverty is neither a sickness you catch, nor a mental illness, and it does not physicly cripple you. It's a situation. While a poor person doesn't have much money they still retain their dignity, their self worth and their innate sense of right and wrong. Being poor also doesn't give one licsence to cheat, steal, or do whatever they feel like doing because the media has labeled them as "Dis-Advantaged", and society feels that it needs to shed money in their direction.

Yet they HAVE been taught that very thing, that because they are poor they are entitled. They're entitled to get away with whatever they can, because they HAVE so little.

With a wife as a Probation officer who also worked in Child Support Services I can say without hesitation and with factual proof that there are generational welfare recipients, and that many times there are 2 and 3 generations of welfare recipients living in the same dwelling. It is NOT uncommon.

With a juvenile caseload it was also common for face to face contacts to be made where several welfare moms are living in a house, and the biological fathers live in another house down the street or on the next block. Yet while the county is actively seeking the father of most all these kids, the mom just has no idea where he is. The kids hang out on the corners or if close enough go to the mall or downtown. Lots of them get into trouble.

I've mentioned that my dad was born and raised on a farm in North-East Arkansas and while he was rather young for the better part of the depression he remembers some of it. He remembers that men would come to the door and ask for work for money or for food. While my grandparents weren't exactly poverty stricken there wasn't much cash money around, so most were fed.

Sometime back, talking about the current economic situation, my dad said that if another depression came that was as bad or almost, it would be a LOT different then the last time, because people have lost their way. People have lost that sense of personal dignity and self worth, and they no longer hold themselves to a higher level, nor do they feel a need to respect the property of others.

I had a tendancy to agree.

And now we're seeing it being played out in New Orleans, as the cockroaches of society crawl all over what little modern civilization is left in the devastated city. They've been unleashed by happenstance, and feel free to do what they want without repercussion or personal feelings of remorse.

I am saddened by the damage the storm caused and the disruption to peoples lives. And I don't feel like debating the "Who is at fault" line. My major feelings are disgust at what the world is seeing of Amarican society in the aftermath. The media is largly to blame for that as bad news sells and that is the majority of what is being reported and shown. Instead of those remaining pitching in and helping each other, and trying to salvage and recover.

Two wishes. To be armed and in NO and if by some means the truly guilty of crimes against persons or wanton vandelism could be made to somehow glow bright red. If that were the case, I don't think I'd have any problem at all in dropping them on the spot.

I hope the NG and police round up a bunch and after trials, I pray Louisiana has the death penalty.

............Buckshot

[Herb in Pa]

AMEN Buckshot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Blackwater]

Here's something you won't see being REPLAYED much on your boob tube:

http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown-looting-in-walmart/

Kinda' like the foxes guarding the hen house, isn't it?

Buckshot, sounds like you came from the same kind of folks that I did. There's an old saying, that if you ever get down and out, and NEED some help, don't go to the house on the hill. Go across the tracks where people will help you out commensurate with their ability to do so. There are many lessons great and small that can be learned from what's going on in NO now. Personal, spiritual, psychological, sociological .... and yet, in this "Age of Information," our media's penchant for cow-towing to the lowest common denominator's penchants for their ratings, what we GET nowadays just ain't much of a "whole picture" situation, nor the simple facts and Truth of the matter. Instead, we get whoever's hollering the loudest and most profanely, followed by the next most "interesting" story, and so on down the line.

That video kinda' puts it all in pretty darn good perspective if you ask me, and it does NOT bode well for this nation's future, either! But all this was prophesied a long, long time ago. As a younger man, I believed we could do anything here, but now, I'm afraid that the sheer Power of our media's cow-towing to the lowest common denominator, and prosperity, are the two things that can and likely WILL bring us, collectively, to ruin, and Buckshot's comments are spot on.

Too many folks are too busy working to "raise" their children right, and they leave them to the gov't run nanny schools to do that FOR them, while both parents work. My forebears worked very long hours, but the pace and pressure was nothing like what it is today in our modern working world, generally. They were kind, but demanding. Hard when tested, but always soft to friends and family. They worked hard and long, but knew how to have fun, and when to "put their foot down" and when to use some leniency or "a good talking to." Nowadays, folks seem to want or "need" a bunch of "rules" that are made up by folks who don't know them to raise their children, and even SOME folks who want to TELL them what to do and what NOT to do to raise their children. Sheesh! Anybody who's ever trained a few bird dogs knows that they, like kids, can be VASTLY different, and require VERY different actions and techniques to "raise" them right.

Enough of this. That video illustrates, I think, EXACTLY why NO is undergoing what is happening there, and it is NOT due to any lack of aid, or money, or due to the aftermath and damage of the hurricane. It's from a lacking from WITHIN, that has been fed, watered and fertilized by our nanny Fed. Gov't for some 40 years now, and it began in earnest with Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society." Great? INDEED! Why just LOOK at it in action!!!

[Jetwrench]

Buckshot,
The guilty are being "rounded up", we have the death penality. THERE WONT BE A TRIAL FOR MOST. Just watch the news, that part will be silent soon. Jetwrench

[carpetman]

One group that I have not heard mention of that usually do very valuable service in times like these are HAM radio operators. Has anybody heard of are know about their activity? Is it possible that the internet has decreased their worth?

[Frank46]

Shooter2, when was the last time you saw jesse or brother al donate anything(food, money, clothing)? All they do is get up and bemoan the point that they're folks are being discrimnated against. Fact of the matter was that the poor were told to go to the cajundome or what ever its called. But our fearless leaders in new orleans forgot to stock it with food, water and other items. Mexico has shelters with 10 days of supplies. The folks in new orleans had zip. So it befalls on the city and state gov'ts to take the rap on this one. I sure hope that we all learn from this disaster because if not then shame on us, for voting such people into office. Frank

[PatMarlin]

One group that I have not heard mention of that usually do very valuable service in times like these are HAM radio operators. Has anybody heard of are know about their activity? Is it possible that the internet has decreased their worth?

Sad fact is Carpetman-

Ham is going by the way of the DoDo bird thanks to our government. It's frequency is being totally taken over and wiped out by a certain type of broad ban digital frequency spectrum (I forget what one), that cannot be used by Ham operators or any Ham equipment.

Just as analog signals for television are signals are being stopped completely, Ham equipment will be worthless. It seems to me our government does not want communications outside of their total control. If they could stop radio, they would.

Just another freedom gone, as a result of sheep not realizing or caring what happens in this country. :roll:

[Scrounger]

Sad fact is Carpetman-

Ham is going by the way of the DoDo bird thanks to our government. It's frequency is being totally taken over and wiped out by a certain type of broad ban digital frequency spectrum (I forget what one), that cannot be used by Ham operators or any Ham equipment.

Just as analog signals for television are signals are being stopped completely, Ham equipment will be worthless. It seems to me our government does not want communications outside of their total control. If they could stop radio, they would.

Just another freedom gone, as a result of sheep not realizing or caring what happens in this country. :roll:

Nice touch, throwing in "sheep" there.

[castalott]

Ham radio is very useful. A while back several of us hams covered a city after a tornado took out everything. No cop repeaters, no power for the fire departments to run radios, no cell phone or even regular phones. Because the local ESDA had a generator and a 2 meter ham setup, we could talk to them a-ok.. I've handled state police traffic ( radio messages for you non-hams). From my experience in that very small emergency, I can tell you that NO was probably completely confused. People worry about the dumbest things at a time like that. Comman sense and rational thought fly out the window.

The average HAM operator is self sufficent... at least until his batteries go dead. Many have generators and fuel to run a lot longer...

My HF system is down but I suspect ( but don't know) that 2 meter is what they used anyway. A ham with a tall tower can relay mesages a long way. If some club had the foresight to add a generator and standby fuel to a repeater with a tall tower, they could maybe cover the whole city and still talk 50 miles to another ham with a good directional antenna. Maybe they used all the bands. It's amazing what you can do if you have the 'right stuff'.

Hams are usually very self disiplined. We are proud of our equipment and our chance to serve. I wish more would join us...... Oh ya, we make our own stuff too...it is almost as interesting as casting/shooting.....

Dale

[StarMetal]

Well, well, well...the kaka gets deeper. It was just on the news and found out that an enviromentalist group called something like "save the wetlands" STOPPED the Army Engineer's project of building levies and improving existing levies along the Mississippi River in NO to stop water from the Gulf from doing what it did. This was in 1996. Well theres enviromentalist wacko's doing good for the country and earth.....just to save some forests.

Joe

[PatMarlin]

I don't understand why in the hell we can't send those wacos over to fight the Iraqi's, Joe?

They've done a brilliant job of shutting down everything in this country.. :roll:

[Castboolitpreacher]

Castalott, you are correct about Hams "being there" in any large disaster. My HF antenna is down right now, but I suspect, as you, that 2 meters and up carried a lot of the traffic down there. Our gang here at Arkla radio club has an excellent 2 meter repeater that will cover up to 75 miles, and I have listened to hams 140 miles away, no skip. We cover violent thunderstorms and tornados for the SW AR and NW LA area. All my HF is tube stuff, so's I can work on it myself (well, somewhat). KC5AQO

[PatMarlin]

I had heard that the deal was done, but lets hope not. This was an article written last year... :confused:


Monday, August 02, 2004

David Coursey's Web Log

Stop Broadband Over Power Line Before It's Too Late

I don't know if my colleague Peter Coffee is a radio amateur or not, but his column talking about the “slow-motion train wreck” that is Broadband Over Power Lines (BPL)*is right on target and expresses the concerns of radio users both amateur and professional.

Here's the deal: The electric power industry and the anything-for-a-buck FCC are smitten with the idea that people should get broadband Internet service over power lines. And not just the power lines in your house, but all the power lines leading to your house.

The lunacy of this should be obvious: Sending radio signals (the Internet connections) over metallic conductors (the power lines) is the same as hooking a radio transmitter up to an antenna. That the result will be radio signals transmitted off the power lines to nearby and not-so-nearby radio receivers is simple physics. And, sure 'nuff the proponents admit--though only after critical studies proved it--that BPL will cause radio interference.

The issue now before the cheerleader FCC (with Bush Administration backing) his how much interference is acceptable. Since the BPL advocates can't really say how much interference they will create, it's hard to decide how to regulate BPL interference. And one thing is sure: The FCC rarely toughens existing rules, so BPL interference needs to be tightly regulated up front and loosened if doing so makes sense later.

Of course, America doesn't really need BPL to get the Internet into people's homes and businesses. Broadband*is happening and will happen without the noise and interference BPL will create.

In a sense, this is really an environmental protection issue. BPL will pollute the radio spectrum in ways we don't yet fully understand, cause damage we can't yet quantify, and create benefits that probably aren't really needed*and problems that will be hard to fix later on.

As someone who cares about the radio spectrum and wants to see it used to maximum benefit, I am very concerned about BPL. It's not just that BPL will likely hurt--maybe even make impossible in some places--ham radio and shortwave reception, it's that the benefit of doing is so slight. How many broadband providers and technologies*do I really need? I already have three or four to choose from. (DSL, cable, microwave, and satellite).

On the back of my VW is a license plate frame that says, “When All Else Fails.“ The plate itself has my ham radio call sign, N5FDL. Both are a reminder of amateur radio's historic role of providing communications when nothing else works. And that*isn't Cold War/Dr. Strangelove*propaganda.

Just a few months ago my search-and-rescue team turned to ham radio frequencies when our sheriff's department radio system failed in the middle of a search. The subject--a man with Alzheimer's--was found safely in part because*of the communications ham radio provided. Now think Homeland Security and you get the importance of having a citizen-provided back-up radio system.

Over the July 4th holiday, I was part of a fire patrol organized by the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection that used ham radio. I could go on but you, hopefully, get the idea.

Parts of the government concerned with emergency communications are also fearful of BPL, but their opposition hasn't gotten very far. Indeed, BPL is sliding*through the regulatory process*as though it's on greased rails. But the final decision hasn't been made and there is still hope the FCC will decide to take a slow approach on implementation and give everyone a chance to discover*what BPL is really all about before serious damage is done.*

*

*

[castalott]

I do admit amateur radio has problems to face...I hope we meet and control them.

as an aside.... The Ham club I was in also worked in tornado warnings. All the info from police,fire, news,internet radar and ham went to the local esda..and everything came back to everyone. It was great! Worked really good. But I have heard recently that ham input is not welcome anymore ( no problems- just the opposite). It seems we aren't 'trained' ( I've been to the same weather classes the firemen have) and we aren't 'official'. hmm... someone protecting thier turf???

It's too bad...most hams that did this were really good.. KB9SRQ