Percussion Handguns?????

[beng]

I am looking to get a black powder percussion handgun. This will be my first time with one. I have been eyeing the Walker or Dragoon, but looking for one, I see there are a lot of them. I do not want any kits or ones that will fall apart the first time it's fired. I fire the 44 Mag. but I have seen the black powder percussion pistols and it looks like something fun to fire. "What is a good pistol for me and what accessories should I get the same time?" (flask etc) Thanks for your time beng

[rodwha]

I, too, drooled over the Walker and Dragoon. As it stands now I'd opt for the Walker, but that's partially because of the history behind it.

The Walker's loading lever usually drops when stouter powder charges are used. You can probably fix the loading lever latch to work much better, but I'm not sure if it'll be 100%. Some (and it's historical) will tie a leather cord around it and the barrel.

Ultimately I suppose it depends on what you intend on doing with it. The weight isn't that different between the two, but a 7.5" barrel is less unwieldy than a 9" barrel with a slightly longer frame to accommodate that large cylinder! To me that's part of what would make it more awesome to own and shoot at the range. As it stands now I usually have at least 1 person come over and ask questions when I shoot my Ruger Old Army. I can only imagine the looks and question with a Walker!

You'll want a powder flask (look for a 5 oz larger one, which will give you more shots per fill), and an adjustable powder measure. If you have large fingers you'll probably want a percussion cap capping tool. And a cleaning kit for it with a bore mop. You can use WD-40, but I prefer using Ballistol. There are other types you can use though.

A loading stand is a very nice thing to have! Holding a heavy pistol in one hand while you attempt to load with the other is a pain!

[Omnivore]

It depends on what you want to do with it, and how adventurous you are. For a first percussion revolver I'd say the Dragoon would be more user friendly than the Walker, being as it's a bit less bulky and the loading lever has a latch to keep it from dropping and locking up the gun after each shot. The Walker is notorious for dropping its loading lever, but some shooters have found work-arounds to prevent this. The later Dragoons were made as a succession of up-grade to the Walker, with Colt's 1860 Army being the culmination of their percussion, 44 caliber fighting revolver development.

The 36s are typically nice shooters. The ubiquitous 1851 Navy being extremely popular (even back in the day they sold huge numbers of the '51 Navy, right up to the last days of percussion revolver production) and the 1861 Navy being an up-grade to the 1851-- The '61's "creeping" loading lever system matches that of the '60 Army and is the very best, technically speaking, though it may never matter to you one way or the other. I find the '60 and '61 Colt's to be the most beautiful handguns ever made, but the '51 and the Dragoons have a more rustic look to them that I like a lot.

If you want to hunt big game, the Walker is marginally powerful enough when loaded with conicals, and the others are questionable, but still feasible at very close range. In a 44, the ballistics will range from that of a 38 S&W to a 40 S&W with a max charge in a Remington, to about a standard lead bullet load in a 45 Colt or maybe a bit better if you max out a Walker (and that's kind of hard on the gun). These are not powerful guns at all by modern standards. Also check your state regs on minimum requirements.

The Remington New Model (Army 44 or Navy 36) is probably the nicest in terms of "user interface" and they have far fewer screws to deal with compared to the Colt's designs. Shooting and servicing one percussion revolver however is very much like shooting and servicing any other, for the most part, and so it's not a big decision. Some would disagree with that last statement, but I have several Colts and two Remingtons and...Meh. No differences big enough to make one a deal killer compared to another. Loading, shooting, accuracy, cleaning and mantenance is all very similar.

If you want to shoot conicals in a stock remington repro, get the Uberti-- the Pietta is built so as to discourage the use of conicals (the frame gets in the way and the rifling twist is twice as long) but you can relieve the frame near the loading port and make it possible. The Uberti Remington comes ready for conicals.

In short; buy the one you like. If you're lucky you'll get a good shooter right out of the box. Other times there are minor tweaks that need to be done with the repros. If you want to spend around a thousand bucks, get the Remington "Shooter's" model from Pietta, or get the Pedersoli Remington. Those are reported to be top notch.

All in all, those who've owned the Ruger Old Army say it's the best quality percussion revolver made in the 20th century. They're no longer made, but you see them for sale regularly.

Then there are the less common guns like the Spiller & Burr, the LeMatt and others, if you want something different, with the LeMatt standing out as being really different (and expensive).

It may behoove you to try the feel of some of them before you buy, if you have that opportunity. For me, the feel of my Pietta 1851 Colt is the best of the bunch that I have, but others will have different.

Know your gun's chamber diameter before ordering any bullet molds. They do vary from make and model to make and model. Balls should be 4 or 5 thousandths over, and colicals should be around 1 to 3 over. I have a conical mold for my Pietta Remington that works well for it, but the same bullets drop into the Uberti Remington chambers with no resistence.

[BruceB]

I reckon that my Walker Colt (actually made - or at least marketed- by Colt in their "Blackpowder Series" back in the '80s) didn't get the message about dropping its loading lever. It has NEVER dropped the lever in the few hundreds of rounds that I've put through it. Ssssssshhh! Don't tell it now!

It is nice to see all the proper Colt markings on the gun.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Had a 3rd model dragoon , big pistol and with full power loads mine's loading lever would come unlatched on occasion , sold it off years ago, though I wish I would of kept it , I like the 1860 colts and the 1851 , my first pistol was a 1858 remington , it was a good pistol.

Flask with spout , nipple wrench , capper , holster . you will have fun no matter which one you choose.

[seaboltm]

I have two, both are Cimarron Arms, which are Uberti. One is a Walker, the other is a 1851 Navy, 36 caliber. The Walker is fun. Recoil is low. 40 grains of Pyrodex sends a 44 caliber round ball at 992 fps. 50 grains will send the same round ball out the end at 1040 fps. So much for the myth that Walkers are near magnums! I have a hard time getting 60 grains of Pyrodex in the cylinder. There is certainly room, but I would have to put in about 50 grains, pack it some, and then add the other 10. With that I am sure the round ball would break at about 1100 fps. Respectable, but still no magnum, although that is probably more potent than a 9mm. Not bad for 1846 technology and I am sure conicals would be in the range of a 45 ACP, as mentioned. Sometimes my Walker's loading lever will fall with 50 grains of powder. I don't think it ever has with 40 grains. The Navy is very fun to shoot. I have never clocked it for velocity, but I would guess 20 grains of pyrodex is pushing the round ball to 900fps or so. In fact, I find myself taking the Navy to range far more often than I do the Walker. I use Ballistol for cleaning and lubing. In fact, I like Ballistol so much I use it for lots of things now. I spray my molds with it after a casting session. Given the choice, I say Uberti over Pietta, but I am not sure the Cimarron upcharge is worth it (but they are nice!)

[Fly]

Great bunch of replys.If you only want a Walker or Dragoon, I myself would go Dragoon.But if this is your first cap & ball
it won't be your last.Down the line you will even want a .36 revolver.WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE (wink)

Fly

[N4AUD]

.36 1851 Navy is loads of fun! I've had one for years, never get tired of shooting it.

[rodwha]

Depending on the powder you choose you can get beyond the standard 45 Colt load in a Ruger Old Army, which is similar in capacity to an 1858. Mike Beliveau tested standard Goex and Triple 7 with RB's, Lee conicals, and heavier Kaido bullets. With a reduced charge of T7 he produced almost 500 ft/lbs of energy with a 255 grn bullet. I don't reduce my loads in my ROA as I know it can more than handle that.

I'm not sure it's wise not to reduce the charge with a reproduction, though when you read Hodgdon's warnings it states the reason to reduce the charge isn't for safety, but to replicate a BP load. There are those who don't and it works, but that doesn't mean it's not wearing it down bit by bit until there will be a failure down the road. I'd rather err on the side of caution, and 450 ft/lbs is likely plenty of power as those who hunt with them get passthroughs on hogs up to around 300 lbs.

[Outpost75]

+1 for he Ruger Old Army with 7-1/2" barrel and adjustable sights. I've killed a pickup truck full of deer and other game with mine. It is a serious working gun. If you will have only one blackpowder handgun, the ROA is the best choice. Nothing else is even close for second place.

[Jon]

1858 Remington. The cylinders are easily removed. It's easy to load, and accurate. Get a loading stand, a capper, and a powder measure. A powder flask is handy. Cabelas makes a brass one that will throw 25gr so you don't have to measure all the time.
I like the lubed wads under .454 lead balls, and 25gr of FFFg.

Get the steel framed one since it's stronger.

[FLINTNFIRE]

The remington 1858 is a solid frame , I used my so much when I was a teenager that I had to order spare parts , that pistol was my downfall into the world of casting , brother got a mold with his lyman remington and I used it to make balls for the remington kit one I had , I could buy the caps and the powder , make the balls , and shoot more . Never have used a loading stand , long time ago gave that remington to my oldest brother , and since then have bought colt 1851 and 1860 , have had brass frames and steel , 44 and 36 , man what a lot of fun .

Then it was sidelock percussion thompson centers , and then the parker hale 1853 musket , then the 1858 and 1861 , and then the flintlocks , sorry I am hooked .

By the time I was 21 it was casting for cartridge revolvers , and then shotgun slugs and so it goes , more molds , cast for almost everything . One will be just the beginning , have fun.

[rodwha]

I second casting your own projectiles, especially if you are shooting conicals/bullets. In no time you'll recoup the cost of your gear, especially if it's Lee, which is cheap.

[ogre]

Since I like the look of all the open top style revolvers for me it comes down to how they feel in my hand.

The 1860 Army is my choice.

[Good Cheer]

Beng,
Yall gonna like a 1860 Colt. It took time to get it right. Get the fluted cylinder if you can.

[bigted]

i heartily second the colt 1860 model in either 'Colt' or 'A Uberti' or 'Pietta' ... all in pretty good production run revolvers. mine currently is an A Uberti with a fitted shoulder stock option and let me tell you that it will drill single hole groups time after time and mostly day long shooting. this fine revolver took a bit of tinkering on my part but my what a great revolver ... way more accurate then i am able to hold in the plain revolver state ... however in the shoulder stocked state ... it is such a surprise to me even yet that i scarcely believe the groups it turns in.

i also load in my lap. i simply install a load of powder ... place a ball over the charged hole and turn it under the ramrod and seat it ... now i leave the ramrod in the last hole and proceed to load the next hole and so on till all holes in the cylinder are loaded ... then i crisco all chambers over the front of the charged balls ... then i cap her up and proceed to make smoke till all has been fired ... then repeat till im tired of shooting.

as mentioned above ... i love the 1860 army and the 1861 navy colt opentop revolvers as they fit my paws best. the remington is stronger but the trigger guard bites my fat fingers more then the colt design ... plus i "feel" the colt opentop design as it balances better for me then any other revolver i have ever tryed.

[rodwha]

So I'm curious a to what you are considering at this point.

[Fly]

Man this thread went bad to worst.Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, the pore guy is most likely
more confused now then before.Get the Dragoon, there almost as powerful lighter, & the loading
leaver will not drop when you shoot it.

JMOHOP Fly

[Gunor]

Or just buy a ROA, and be done with it all

Geoff in Oregon

[rodwha]

I figured he was set on either a Walker or Dragoon so didn't venture away. Were I to want one to get into it without considering buying others I'd try to find a Ruger, and if not a steel Remington. But who wants only one?

Initially I thought the Remington to be the silliest looking pistol. But my ROA softened up that stance. I think the Colt's look better, but I've just read too many threads in which cap jamming and barrel aligning is a problem all too often with various Colts. And with a cylinder swap being so easy with a Remington it just tilted me further...

[GunSlingerNM]

Beng, if you are not too confused or disgusted by all this, my advise is if possible get together with someone that shoots Cap and Ball Revolvers and try some of their guns. If no one is available than perhaps buy a gun to your liking from Cabella's (on sale at the moment and inexpensive even when not on sale) and spend an afternoon shooting. See if you enjoy this style of firearm.
Forget about the personal preferences of others about brands and Colt vs Remington patterns. They both have their pluses and minuses; I own both and like/dislike certain things about both. You can make your own judgments. Same goes for powder, subs vs the "Holy Black" some have strong feelings (I could care less, If dog poop makes it go bang and put the lead where I want I would use it).
Good Luck and have fun.

[JSAND]

Beng, if you haven't made your purchase already, I would suggest as others have that you get with someone that owns a Cap and Ball and shoot theirs first. Doesn't really matter what it is, and whether they shoot it with the black alternatives or the real thing, just like the type of pistol you decide on, what you use to make it go boom will be a personal decision you will have to make. You can handle all the various models in a good gun shop and decide what you like best, but before you spend the money on what you want, get a sense of what it means to shoot one. It's not just the loading and shooting you have to consider, you need to clean one as well, if that doesn't scare you off, and you like it as much as I figure you will, then you can narrow down your choice on make and model and make a purchase.

[Multigunner]

The .36 1851 Navy is the most enjoyable of the Cap&Ball revolvers to shoot and just to look at and admire the lines of the design.
The 1861 Navy and its little brother the pocket and police five shot .36 are also fine looking pistols.

There were civilian models of the 1860 army that could be ordered with the smaller Navy sized grip.
if you have large hands the Calvary grip might suit you better, but the Navy size grip seems to fit everyone just fine.

PS
I bored the Chambers of my first 51 Navy a tad deeper to hold a pinch more powder, that greatly increased the muzzle velocity and energy when using round ball.
The depth of the chambers of Colt replicas seems to vary according to the manufacturer.

I ground the end of a 3/8" drill bit flat and took out the taper at the bottom of the chambers and deepened them till flush with the end of the nipples.
Don't try this if you aren't handy with hand tools. A Drill press would make it easier.