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View Full Version : GC seating on fat boolits - problems



hunter74
12-08-2013, 02:38 AM
I’m having problems with seating Gas Checks on my Lee 454-300-RF. The shanks of the Lee boolits are on the large side, like the rest of the boolit, so it’s hard to get them on with my Lyman 450 without trimming the shank first. To get this done I have used a chamfer tool made to de-burr cases. I’ve read about the “coin trick” so I place a coin on the “sizer die locking nut” and press the boolit against that when seating the check, before crimping it in the die. This is time consuming, to say the least, and far from ideal, some of the checks still get seated crocked. At least it looks like it. Then I saw this on the NOE website http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...products_id=33

Can anyone share some of their experience on their use of this product, or should I consider something else? I ‘m about to order a mold from NOE (454-350 gr GC) since I’m getting tired of my 2 cav. Lee mold overheating, and also giving me a lot of other problems. Two large cavities are hardly good in a small alu block! If the Gas Check Seating Die would ease this problem it would be great. If anyone could share their experience with the “Bullet base chamfer tool” http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=28
It also would be appreciated. Thanks again!

geargnasher
12-08-2013, 02:52 AM
My advise is spend the bucks on an Accurate Mold. You can get exactly what you want, sized exactly like you want, and if you don't see a cataloged design you like you like, email Tom and he'll draw up something from scratch. He can have it to you in a few weeks, maybe less.

Seating GCs on an oversized shank is very frustrating, and the only solution I can think of is to order a set of GC dies from Freechex and make your own out of thinner material.

Gear

waco
12-08-2013, 04:10 AM
My advise is spend the bucks on an Accurate Mold. You can get exactly what you want, sized exactly like you want, and if you don't see a cataloged design you like you like, email Tom and he'll draw up something from scratch. He can have it to you in a few weeks, maybe less.


Seating GCs on an oversized shank is very frustrating, and the only solution I can think of is to order a set of GC dies from Freechex and make your own out of thinner material.

Gear

Why do you always have to be a buzz kill?

Beagle333
12-08-2013, 11:14 AM
Have you tried any of Blammer's gas checks? His will fit a shank a little larger than Lyman's.
The .45 GC is said to fit a .426 shank (accoring to his site), but I do know that a couple of us found they are fitting on the .428 shanks on the 462 Hammer just fine. I don't have any of his 45 pistol checks, but the base is the same. You might see if somebody will lend you a few to test.

hunter74
12-08-2013, 11:18 AM
I have only tried the Hornady checks. They are the only ones available i Norway, it looks like it anyway.

I am not starting to make my ovn checks at the moment.

btroj
12-08-2013, 11:48 AM
Moulds like that don't live in my home very long. It isn't easy to seat checks squarely on oversized shanks. You also end up shaving lead and making a general mess of things.

I would get a different mould.

leadman
12-08-2013, 11:50 AM
Lyman checks are made by Hornady now. Contact Andy Lee at Lee precision and see if he will exchange the mold for one that does not drop an oversize boolit.
I have the same boolit in a Lee 6 cavity mold and have no issues at all with it. Don't know how hard it is to get these in Norway.

Another option is to find a piece of metal rod or a bolt a little larger than the shank of the boolit and make a tool to expand the gas checks out of it. I have to do this with one of my older 30 cal. molds.
I used a bolt and cut of the threads and used my hobby lathe to taper the end so it expands the checks. A drill press or even a hand drill and file would work also.

btroj
12-08-2013, 12:05 PM
Looking back at the OP my problem mould was exactly the same bullet. It doesn't get shot any more. I moved on to better bullets, one is a plain base.

JonB_in_Glencoe
12-08-2013, 12:06 PM
I’m having problems with seating Gas Checks on my Lee 454-300-RF. The shanks of the Lee boolits are on the large side, like the rest of the boolit, so it’s hard to get them on with my Lyman 450 without trimming the shank first ...snip...

I'm not sure if Hornady offers 2 different sizes of Gas checks for 45 (45 pistol and 45 rifle) ? But I know Blammer does.
http://gaschecks.castpics.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3&zenid=s9dqqr0lobm8bfrdnjj9flh956
I'm thinking that a 45 rifle Gas check might work well on your oversize Lee boolit.
Good Luck,
Jon

Kraschenbirn
12-08-2013, 12:08 PM
...Another option is to find a piece of metal rod or a bolt a little larger than the shank of the boolit and make a tool to expand the gas checks out of it. I have to do this with one of my older 30 cal. molds.
I used a bolt and cut of the threads and used my hobby lathe to taper the end so it expands the checks. A drill press or even a hand drill and file would work also.

I've made a similar tool for expanding .30 cal. checks using a ball-bearing silver-soldered to a piece of 1/4" drill rod.

Bill

Gtek
12-08-2013, 12:17 PM
Have you tried annealing checks, then flaring? Cannot make mold smaller, until that is changed it is just more work on backside. Expander punch, etc. can be made but that is on the more work side. Gtek

hunter74
12-08-2013, 12:28 PM
Thank you for your shared knowledge! I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ll order a better mold than the Lee mold. Most likely if I order a mold from one of the custom makers I get rid of this problem , right? My previous experience with NOE alu molds are nothing but good and they can in no way be compared to the two cav Lee molds! I have two of NOE molds with PB, the 358477 in 357 mag, and the classic 429421 in 44. I have no experience with Accurate molds. I see that they are more expensive.

Anyone with experience with the NOE 350 gr RF boolit? It’s intended use would be in Casull and 460, and maybe in the 45 Colt if it’s not too big and heavy.

bobthenailer
12-08-2013, 12:34 PM
First anneal the gas check to make them more pliable and some vender mould maker ? on this sight made a run of a tool to true up and bevel the edge of cast boolets .

MarkP
12-08-2013, 12:46 PM
” If anyone could share their experience with the “Bullet base chamfer tool” http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=28
It also would be appreciated. Thanks again!

I have the NOE chamfer tool and it works quite well. I use mine for the same situation listed above, usually when I get a slight amount of flash on the heels (feels like a slight burr around the base) I think NOE has one with a smaller shank for chucking in a drill / nut driver.

cbrick
12-08-2013, 01:12 PM
Many years ago when I got sick of sore thumbs from trying to get gas checks on various boolits (I have several SAECO molds with fat check shanks) I made up gas check sizers for each caliber that I cast for. I use center punches which are tapered to the point and I shorten them to where they are the correct diameter for the caliber, then put a slight bevel on the end to flare the sides of the check.

Sizing all checks is without doubt the biggest PITA I have in my loading room but I try to keep a couple hundred of each caliber pre-sized when I have some down time. When it's time to size & check is sure is sweet to have all checks slip on, no more sore fingers, crooked checks or shaved lead. They crimp on perfectly completely tight, flat & square to the boolit base. After sizing them they are the size that I dearly wish Hornady would make them in the first place. Seems that if on some boolits they would be a tad loose they still crimp on perfectly so a bit loose on some boolits sounds better than some that ya just can't get the check onto. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it right up until I change my mind. :mrgreen:

But yes, it's a PITA. Maybe that's why I've been using more & more PB boolits?

Rick

Larry Gibson
12-08-2013, 01:26 PM
The Lyman GC seating tool for the 450/4500 does work ya know..............

Larry Gibson

cbrick
12-08-2013, 01:38 PM
I don't have the Lyman but the SAECO lubrisizer does have a gas check seater and in my experience with it is that it simply uses leverage to force a check that doesn't fit onto the shank anyway still giving crooked checks, bent checks and shaved lead. So I size the checks with my punches and then seat checks flat & square & size boolits nose first in the Star.

Rick

geargnasher
12-08-2013, 03:51 PM
I don't have the Lyman but the SAECO lubrisizer does have a gas check seater and in my experience with it is that it simply uses leverage to force a check that doesn't fit onto the shank anyway still giving crooked checks, bent checks and shaved lead. So I size the checks with my punches and then seat checks flat & square & size boolits nose first in the Star.

Rick

BINGO! I gave my Lyman check seater away a long time ago, it was NOT a good solution for tight shanks and Hornady checks.

I suggested Accurate Molds because one can get precisely the shank size, OR SHAPE :wink: that the want. Make the tools work for YOU, not the other way around.

Gear

grouch
12-08-2013, 03:52 PM
I haven't had the problem with a .45 mold, but one solution for a .30 mold is to set the gas checks on a hard surface, insert the head of a #8 round head screw into the open side and tap the screw with a 16oz hammer. It'll just take a bigger screw.
Grouch

btroj
12-08-2013, 03:52 PM
I'm too lazy and unskilled to make punches to make checks fit. A new mould is better for me. Sometimes money can fix what skill, time, and energy can't. I know my limits.

geargnasher
12-08-2013, 05:06 PM
Like the saying goes, good, cheap, or fast: Pick two.

Gear

hunter74
12-08-2013, 05:20 PM
I pick good and fast. Guess no more Lee 2 cav :-)

ultramag
12-08-2013, 07:51 PM
I'm not going to disagree with anyone about better molds being better, however I did find a solution to this very problem. At least I seem to have....I haven't loaded and range tested these yet but they are checked, sized, and lubed and everything looks fine and the checks fit well.

http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/index.php

This vendor offers an aluminum check for a .430 shank size. They finally cured this issue with my Lee 452-300-RF's. My boolit shanks were .427-.4275 and most .45 caliber checks are good up to .426. It would be a much better solution if the Lee mold was cut properly, but since you already have it this is a viable option if interested.

Blammer
12-08-2013, 08:03 PM
hunter74, I ship to Norway, if you want some GC's and you're buying an NOE mould see if NOE will put some GC's in with the mould for you for the same shipping price.

I can send them to NOE for you if you decide to do this.

Let me know.

detox
12-13-2013, 04:56 PM
Many years ago when I got sick of sore thumbs from trying to get gas checks on various boolits (I have several SAECO molds with fat check shanks) I made up gas check sizers for each caliber that I cast for. I use center punches which are tapered to the point and I shorten them to where they are the correct diameter for the caliber, then put a slight bevel on the end to flare the sides of the check.

Sizing all checks is without doubt the biggest PITA I have in my loading room but I try to keep a couple hundred of each caliber pre-sized when I have some down time. When it's time to size & check is sure is sweet to have all checks slip on, no more sore fingers, crooked checks or shaved lead. They crimp on perfectly completely tight, flat & square to the boolit base. After sizing them they are the size that I dearly wish Hornady would make them in the first place. Seems that if on some boolits they would be a tad loose they still crimp on perfectly so a bit loose on some boolits sounds better than some that ya just can't get the check onto. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it right up until I change my mind. :mrgreen:

But yes, it's a PITA. Maybe that's why I've been using more & more PB boolits?

Rick

I made a .35 Gas Check flaring tool from a RCBS top punch that mounts in my Lubri-Matic. It is ground flat with bevel on end. Punch is also used to size all my wide flat nose bullets.

cbrick
12-13-2013, 06:35 PM
I have a few that I made from Lyman M dies, the anvil is a long RCBS shell holder which has no hole in the middle, ground it flat and set it up in the Rockchucker. This is in addition to the punches that I made.

Rick

90433 90434

cbrick
12-13-2013, 08:00 PM
Do the checks stick on the mandrel after they are swaged open? Marvin

Sometimes, I keep a small flat screw driver in my hand and just flick them off.

Rick

detox
12-14-2013, 01:57 AM
The RCBS and Lyman bullet punches are hardened steel. If the taper and polishing is perfect they are easy to pull off. Mine come right off with fingernail. The tip of bullet punch should be slightly concave or hollow to prevent deforming or bulging gas check at base.

To flair gas check. I lay a small 1/4" thick piece of steel over the sizing die and under top punch of Lubri-Sizer. Then flair gas check.

Bullets must be flat on base. A snug and sharp sprue plate helps. Floppy loose sprue plate will cause raised sprue cut. Bullets with raised sprue cuts are thrown back into the melting pot.