Cast, lube and shoot

[twoshotc]

I was hoping that I could simply cast, lube and shoot boolits in my early 1980's Marlin 336 in .30-.30 cal. From too much reading on the net, that does not seem likely. I am trying to decide on a mold. I am pretty sure I want a RF in about 170 gr.
From all I have read, it seems that I need the boolits sized to about .310 but the molds appear to be .30. I had rather not have to get a sizer unless I have to. That is just another step.. I have give in and decided to get a gc mold and just order the gas checks when I order a mold. Does this help with the diameter problem so I do not need .310 or greater?
So I guess the question know is what to do about the mold size i.e. 310or 311. Can you order molds in that size.
You can tell my knowledge is so limited. Please advise
thanks
twoshotc

[btroj]

I prefer 311 bullets in my Marlin but there is only one way to know for sure what size works best in your rifle- shooting it.

Where are you located? If a member is nearby they may be able to give you some bullets to try out.

[myg30]

Welcome to the forum. Im glad to hear your reading a lot. Its a good thing too. May get confusing but believe me it will all fall in.
You might want to look at some of the vendors here that sell cast boolits and maybe a sample pack of min. order of a mix to try in your rifle. If you slug your bbl. you can get an idea of needed boolit size. A mold may be a little trial n error if you want to load em as cast with your lead mix but some do it with a tumble lube mold. Lube n load, no sizing.
What State are you in ?

Mike

[dverna]

Well, at least you are starting with an "easy" rifle caliber. Bullet diameter will depend on the mold and the alloy you use. Lead will shrink more than linotype for example.

Sizing is not that expensive to do. The Lee dies are cheap and do the job. If in doubt get a .310, you can easily open it up to .311 if .310 does not shoot well for you. Or just buy a second die - they are not expensive.

I will get beat up on this, but I suggest getting almost any mold except the Lee. Lee molds can need "tweaking" to work well and you have enough to learn. A quality mold from NOE or Mihec will be with you for a lifetime and produce excellent bullets. The old Lymans are good too but buying used is a **** shoot. One good think about the Lee's is the price. Best bang for the buck out there - if/when they work.

Also, walk before you run. Start with loads at 1200-1300 fps. It is easier to get accuracy and avoid leading at lower velocities. As you gain experience you can push to 1600-1800 and then go for factory velocities. A lube that works at 1300 fps may not work at 2000 fps. At the low velocities a shotgun or pistol powder makes for lower costs. Good choices are Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique 2400.

Most of us start with casting for pistols. Two reasons - pistols consume a lot more rounds and pistols are easier to cast for.

Do a search on .30/30 and there is a lot of good information on this site.

Good luck.

Don Verna

[North_of_60]

I started with Lee molds so they are all I know. Mine cast ok right out of the box after prepping them the way the Lee instructions say to. After "tweaking" them the "Lee-Menting" way (See Stickies) they work great. I like tweaking things and tweaking the Lee Molds is very simple.

I will be buying a Mountain Molds for my 405 WCF as soon as I can settle on a design. Maybe after I use it I will throw rocks at my Lees, but I doubt it. They are only $19.95 at Midway USA and they cast good bullets. I pan lube and shoot them as cast in my 45 Colt and in my 40 S&W. I may try a sizing die later on but for now they are fine.



Al

[bhn22]

I size all 30 cal (308) bullets to .311. Coincidentally, that's usually the normal "as cast" diameter of most bullet molds. I prefer RCBS 180 gr FN, but Lyman offers 311291, and 311041, which are both great bullets.

[bangerjim]

Sizing is no big (or expensive) deal. Lee sizing push-thru dies cost about $20 and come with LLA if you still use that crapola. I powder coat everything to eliminate lubes. You do NOT spend tons of money on a grease lubra-matic anymore. There are tons on here using electrostatic gun PC'ing with great success. No lube, no smoke, no leading.

You can slug your barrels to see what you need size to. (recommended)

I size EVERY caliber I shoot......even though most drop on size from the 16 Lee molds I have.


Welcome to the madness!

bangerjim

[Recluse]

How much reloading experience do you have? I'd like to know that before going to far in with information on projectiles.

:coffee:

[twoshotc]

To answer a couple of questions--I live in upstate South Carolina. I have been reloading jacketed bullets in .30.30, .308, 38,357, and ..380 for ten years. I started reloading lead only a year ago in the handgun calibers. I have purchased most of the bullets from Lucky 13. I would like to begin to use lead bullets in the .30.30 next and start molding my own. I have placed and order for a 158gr mold for the .38 and .357. I am not too concerned with casting for the handgun calibers since I have been using cast bullets for about a year.
It seems that the rifle calibers or their speed makes casting and reloading for them a little more complicated. That is what I am trying to learn .
I want to order the correct mold in a flat nose about 170grains.
It seems that most molds come in the caliber size as .308 not the .309-10-11 as recommended. Some folks say their molds that are .308 drop bullets that are .310.
I have resigned myself into using gas checks after reading the various posting. I have ordered the other equipment for casting except a rifle mold. So I am still looking for advise.
thanks again
twoshotc

[Recluse]

OK, good--so you know your way around a reloading press. We have an awful lot of new folks who've never pulled the handle and reloading necked case cartridges can be quite a bit different.

Yes, sizing is an additional step but especially in long gun calibers, it is probably the most important step. I use--exclusively--push-through sizing dies for all rifle cartridge boolits. I use them because they go through nose first and that basically eliminates any chance of "bending" the boolit during the sizing process.

My Winchester 94 slugs at .308 and I get my absolute best accuracy with a Lee 170FN sized at .309. At .310, I start getting more spread in the pattern of shots fired, and at .311 the spread gets even worse.

I gas check every single rifle boolit I cast, and I install the gas checks using the same push-through sizing die. Fast, easy and it really does a superb job of ensuring the check is on straight and crimped properly AND that everything about the boolit, including gas check, is sized to .309 (or whatever size of sizing die I'm using for whichever caliber).

Now, there are some really nice fun plinking loads for 30-30 using around 8 to 10 grains of Unique. You do not have to gas check those boolits, but make darn sure they are lubed very well. Believe it or not, a slower moving boolit will lead your barrel quicker and worse than a fast moving boolit because lower pressures often result in a failure to fully obturate and the escaping gas cuts around the boolit on its way out the barrel.

I keep a hundred or so of these plinking 30-30 loads on hand at all times because they are just flat plain to shoot. The son-in-law loves them as does the daughter. We get to shoot a fun lever-action rifle but without any of the kick or big bang/boom that normally comes with larger caliber rifles.

The only other thing I can think of off the bat about loading cast for 30-30 that might be different than your experience with loading jacketed is that it doesn't hurt anything to actually flare or bell the case ever so slightly as to avoid any lead getting shaved when you seat the boolit. I also will seat the boolit, give the lever a half pull, stop and then rotate the cartridge (still in the shell holder) about 180 degrees then complete the ram stroke on the press. This also seems to help keep alignment and round-out where it needs to be.

:coffee:

[mdi]

Mebbe you're a bit mis-informed? A 30 caliber mold will produce bullets of about .308" to .311" or mebbe larger, depending on the mold, the alloy used, and a few other variables. To use gaschecks, some device is needed to swage the checks on the base of the bullet, many use a simple Lee sizing die of the appropriate diameter to accomplish this. Most sizing die sets from Lee are available for under $25.00 and sometimes you can find them for under $20.00, not a huge investment...

From what you mentioned in your first post, you will need at least 3 operations to get good bullets like you want; cast, lube, and size/install checks. With a lubersizer you'll be able to lube, size, install checks with one machine, but that is a much larger investment in equipment.

A good text for "Bullet Casting 101" is Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (if you can find a 3rd Edition, get it. It's much better than the 4th, unless you are into black powder cartridge shooting).

[RickinTN]

The Lee 170rf is probably a pretty good mold for you to start. I recently purchased an RCBS 30-150-FN mold that I dearly love. It drops a bullet of about 160 grains in my alloy and large enough to size to .310" or .311". This bullet works well in any 30-30 I've tried it in. I use the Lee push through sizers to install gas checks as well as to size...all in one push through of the bullet. I do have an RCBS lubrasizer but I do not size any of my rifle bullets in it. I tried until I was blue in the face to get bullets to enter the die centered and it's not gonna happen. I do lube on the RCBS machine with an oversized die of .001" larger than my sized bullet. The RCBS mold is definitely a better mold than the Lee but the price reflects that as well.
Good Luck,
Rick

Either of the above mentioned molds should drop a bullet large enough to size to .310", and with a Marlin this would probably be a good place to start.

[Wayne Smith]

First, you are making some good decisions to start with. Best caliber, best place to find answers, and good curiosity. There is literally a plethora of good useable 30 caliber boolit molds that are applicable to the 30-30. There is no 'best'. Your available budget should determine the mold you buy, not a particular design.

You need to slug your barrel. If you don't know how to do this do a search. There is a lot of information here on doing that, but do not use a wooden dowel! Measure the slug with a micrometer. Now you know your needed boolit diameter. If you can afford it you can order a mold from Tom at Accurate, tell him your alloy and it will come out spot on! Dan at Mountain Molds will do the same, but you may not want to dive into boolit design just yet.

Lee molds are cheap enough that if one doesn't throw a boolit large enough you can buy another. You will almost certainly need to size this boolit, however. One that casts spot on can be lubed and shot as is, using a Lee type die simply to crimp on the gas check.

I repeat, slug your barrel. Stop guessing and get some data.

[44man]

I made some molds but also bought the RCBS 150 gr. Boolits drop .311". I lapped a Lee die to .311" and use it to seat checks and remove excess lube.
The mold works fine, open it and boolits drop right out.
They shoot good.

[JSAND]

I went through the same process several years ago. I bought the Lee 158 grn flat nose double cavity mould, slugged the barrel and found that I would need a .310 boolit and I might have gotten lucky because that was right at what the little Lee put out with COWW aloy. My boolits generally weigh in from 162 to 164 grns and I found a .312 Lee push through sizer die for $5. Since I didn't need to size and was only concerned with crimping my Gas Checks it has worked well for me.

[44man]

That was my only concern. Fine to shoot as cast but a GC needs crimped and sized.
Then trying to seat an unsized GC in the brass will open the neck and what would happen if the check sheds in the chamber?