Anyone lubegroove lube and Lee Liquid Alox

[n5odj]

Anyone lube their cast bullets w/ a sizer/luber AND also use Lee Liquid Alox on top of that? Does it do any good? Is it serious overkill? Does it do any harm?

Thanks,

Robert in the hills of NC

[waksupi]

Anyone lube their cast bullets w/ a sizer/luber AND also use Lee Liquid Alox on top of that? Does it do any good? Is it serious overkill? Does it do any harm?

Thanks,

Robert in the hills of NC

Welcome aboard, Robert.
I really can't see any reason to do it, assuming your bullet is properly fitted to the bore, and you are using a good lube. It seems to be adding an extra unnecessary step. I'd consider it over kill, if the two aforementioned conditions are met. You may actually be over-lubing. What is your application?

[n5odj]

The groove lube is 50/50. I'm new to casting (Duh... like you couldn't tell). I tried pan lubing, but it sure is a mess. So I thought I'd try out the Lyman450. After figuring out how it works, I'm pleased with the results. Yep, I'm sizing the bullets, but just barely. They are as cast ~..4598 & the die is .459. Mostly it's just to lube them.
Haven't yet shot any through my guide gun, but I reckon they'll do OK. I'll try it w/o the LLA & just the groove lube, but I know I've always got the option of adding it later. It's just hard for me to picture using only LLA w/ these standard grooved bullets (not made for tumble lubing). LLA is so easy to use that it would be nice if only that could be used.

Robert

[Bass Ackward]

Anyone lube their cast bullets w/ a sizer/luber AND also use Lee Liquid Alox on top of that? Does it do any good? Is it serious overkill? Does it do any harm?

Thanks,

Robert in the hills of NC


Robert,

There are many applications for Liquid Alox. And sometimes using both.

Examples:

1. Bore ride bullets. It can add as much as .001 to the nose diameter if you need a good fit. It puts lube out where you need it if you have a long nose design like a 311284, making a tight bullet easier to chamber too.

2. It can increase the top velocity potential of a cast bullet if the design you are using doesn't carry enough lube or the lube you are using craps out at a certain pressure level.

3. Helps if you are shooting a VERY long barrel. The stuff doesn't come off unless it is scraped off. Can't even be melted off. So this is an option here.

4. Say you are using a lube that has a propensity to throw fliers. LBT Blue has a bad reputation for this. Liquid Alox is less slipery and can actually counter by adding some friction. At the very least it alows you to minimize how much LBT Blue you actually need.

5. Liquid Alox is the super glue of lubes. If you have a pitted bore, that stuff will get into the low spots and harden after about 20 shots. Next best thing to a new barrel. Then if you don't clean it out, you can just use regular lube until you do.

These are just 5 reasons I can see to use it. But many folks get all the velocity they want out of it without a trace of lead using nothing but LQA. I can't, but there are a lot of things I can't do.

[sc03a3]

i think bass ackwards hit the nail on the head , i also use lee t/l and then press lube on top in certain gun/ boolit combo's. i tumble lube first, then gas check and size the boolits using the lee push-through sizer die, and then run them through the lyman 450 to add extra lube in the grooves. .....sc03a3

[44man]

Bass, I think the problem with LBT Blue is that it is too hard and doesn't work good until velocity is very high. Only my opinion, but I think some lube stays in the grooves and throws the boolit out of balance instead of spinning off after leaving the muzzle.
A friend sent me a box of boolits lubed with some hard, red stuff. Most had fallen off in shipment. I had to clean all of it out of the grooves so I could put Felix lube on them. I noticed some was hard to scrape off but in some spots, it would fall out. I can picture this lube when the boolit leaves the muzzle---no good!

[felix]

If you guys want to wax up a bunch of boolits, just wash around as typical, but with a watered down lube, say like a felix lube plus 5-10 volumes of acetone (or other quick drying solvent). This will be a dry type of lube on the boolits, and should suffice for bore riding noses. If too dry, just add a little more lube to the mixture. ... felix

[buck1]

Felix, I was wondering about that!!

I just got through playing with my .308 .
At 2400FPS my groups are near 1 1/2 -1 3/4" .
But with noses lubed It will hold 1". I had good luck with johnsons paste wax,LAA,my standard bullet lube and strangly enugh Johnsons liquid one step floor wax. I dont think the latter is even a wax but it works, and is dry ,clear and hard.
It seemed that anything would work as long as it covered the boolit where it changes from nose to bore ride dia.
.....Buck

[Buckshot]

..........As a rule I will TL any bore riding boolits. This is mostly to ease the nose engraving effort, and it DOES make a difference. Very possibly it also has a positive effect otherwise. I've never done a test, extensive or otherwise on performance differences (Accuracy) vs bore riders down this way or not TL'd. I think it'd take a bunch of shooting to prove one way or another if there is a positive or negative effect.

http://www.fototime.com/5ECF92B36081810/standard.jpg

..............Buckshot

[felix]

That's right, Buck. Some of these new waxes, floors/cars, are not natural waxes, but polymers of some sort. This goes for greases also. They are always worth a try. But to be on a safe side, coat some shiny steel with the "wax/grease" and let sit for a week or so in the sun. You are looking for possible rusting, and also the ease of our normal solvents to take the stuff off, making the steel sparkling clean. ... felix

[buck1]

Thats a good Idea! I'll do it now! ...Buck

[Bass Ackward]

Bass, I think the problem with LBT Blue is that it is too hard and doesn't work good until velocity is very high. Only my opinion, but I think some lube stays in the grooves and throws the boolit out of balance instead of spinning off after leaving the muzzle.
A friend sent me a box of boolits lubed with some hard, red stuff. Most had fallen off in shipment. I had to clean all of it out of the grooves so I could put Felix lube on them. I noticed some was hard to scrape off but in some spots, it would fall out. I can picture this lube when the boolit leaves the muzzle---no good!

44,

You may be entirely correct. I constantly re-evaluate bullet lubes and so far, I keep coming back to the same point. You simply have to match ANY lube to the application. Use any lube outside of it's pressure range, and you have problems.

If you read the data sheets on the CBA bench guys, a lot of them still use LBT Blue. Now I ain't a smart fella, but I do figure that if I was going to put all that money into a fancy rig and go out and compete with it, I would surely try different lubes and pick the best one. The fact that so many do, tells me somebodys got it wrong.

But LBT Blue in lower pressure settings (below 35,000 psi) does leave something to be desired and it is plain terrible for me in cold weather.

[Junior1942]

I had good results with two layers of Lee Liquid Alox with several styles of regular-groove bullets. Let the first application dry, then apply again.

[KCSO]

I lube with Lees on my high velocity loads and then lube the grooves with my standard black powder and low velocity lube. This prevents leading at hunting velocities and I don't have to empty out the luber to do the few bullets I shoot at high velocity during the course of the year. Most of my shooting is done at 1600 or less and the BPL holds up good there, but leads some at 2000. It works, but if I were shooting a lot of cast at 1900+ I would just keep one luber filled with high velocity lube.

[n5odj]

, i also use lee t/l and then press lube on top in certain gun/ boolit combo's. i tumble lube first, ........ and then run them through the lyman 450 to add extra lube in the grooves. .....sc03a3


Doesn't the Lyman450 scrape off the already applied LLA ?

Robert

[sc03a3]

robert, you would certainly think so, but there is never any t/l left on the top of the 450 sizer die. i think the scraped-off t/l is pushed into the lube grooves on the boolit...sc03a3