.22 Bator moulds finally in stock at Midsouth!

[muskeg13]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000622BATOR

I've been checking on this item every few days at Midsouth for months, and it's finally back in stock as of today. Ever since I got my .22 Hornet and saw the favorable discussion posted on this site, I've wanted to get this mould. My Lyman 225438 does OK, but there's always room for improvement. I'm not looking for lightning speed, just an accurate and effective small game load. 2000-2100fps would be fine.

[Ricochet]

Just ordered one. I'll see what I can do with it in my .22-250 Savage. (Whenever I actually get around to doing some casting and shooting!) Dang, 1000 gas checks cost more than the mould!

[Bret4207]

Thanks! I'll put in my order tomorrow for 2.

[waksupi]

Muskeg, I had one of those molds, and pushed it considerably faster than that, with good accuracy. Got rid of the darned thing, and the rifle. Obviously made for someone with smaller fingers. I've been told my hands resemble a bouquet of pricks.

[Skrenos]

Got my order in. Been waiting for this one for a while. Maybe I'll get to shooting that .22 hornet handi-rifle a little more.

[quasi]

I've been told my hands resemble a bouquet of pricks.

rotflmao!!!!!

[Ricochet]

I've got mine, but haven't tried casting with it yet. Man, those are tiny cavities, and this box of 1000 Hornady checks is about the size of a couple of boxes of dental floss! The sprues are going to be way bigger than the boolits!

[drinks]

I use the Bator in my Handi, 1/9" twist, with 4227 I have had good accuracy at 2300fps, but going to 2500fps, the 1" at 50 yds group opens up to 2-3".
Still a nice small game, target load at 2300fps.

[Bret4207]

I will be more than happy if I can get 14-1750 fps in my 218 Bee or 22-250 or that 222/20 Savage I was looking ata few days ago.

[Bret4207]

THEY'RE OUT OF STOCK ALREADY!!!!!!!! I got sidetracked and waited too long. Next shipment due 11/28/07.

[Skrenos]

Ya snooze, ya lose. I ordered mine as soon as someone said they were in stock here... which, amazingly, was a full day before midsouth emailed me that they were in stock! I received mine yesterday. It's a pretty nice mould. I had to do some cleanup with an x-acto, though.

I'm not seeing much of a gas check shank. Are the .22 cal gas checks just that thin? I didnt order any checks when i got the mould.

[muskeg13]

I cast a few tonight. I actually got a perfect set of bullets on the first cast, but there were many rejects later due to letting the mould cool. Once they were heated and I could maintain a steady pace, the rejects went away. The only problem was cutting the sprue without knocking the mould open and marring the bullets on the edge of the mould cavities. This was controlled by holding the handles closed while keeping the side of the mould on the padded bench when I knocked the sprue plate loose. I noticed the holes on the sprue plate are pretty large for the diameter of the bullets. This may make them a bit harder to cut, but the bullets seem to fill out much better than on most of my other moulds.

My bullets ran .226-.227 and an average of 51.5 grains from the mould. The alloy was air cooled ww with 2% tin. Saeco hardness was 10, which is supposed to be the same as linotype.

[Skrenos]

Well, spend the last couple hours taking my time with the lathe, and made myself a .225 sizer die. Cutting that o-ring groove properly sucks big time. Dont have any gas checks right now, but loaded a sized bullet into a 22 hornet cast with a small charge of 800x.

That thing looks really weird with the bullet sitting inside the case so low. I have all my lube grooves inside the case, and this little nub of a bullet nose sticking out. it's rather cute and feels old-timey.

[Single Shot]

Got mine.

I responded as soon as Midsouth e-mailed they were back in stock.

Received the mold yesterday


DRINKS, thanks for the load data I have a Handi Rifle I ordered the mold for.

[Single Shot]

Muskeg, I had one of those molds, and pushed it considerably faster than that, with good accuracy. Got rid of the darned thing, and the rifle. Obviously made for someone with smaller fingers. I've been told my hands resemble a bouquet of pricks.

ROTFLMAO At least they did not say your head was that way.[smilie=1:

[Skrenos]

Here's a sample of my attempt at loading this cute thing.

[Ricochet]

That is a cute thing.

Haven't gotten around to casting with it yet.

[Skrenos]

I've noticed that it seats as deep as a 45 grain hornady pointed soft point... it's just what sticks out happens to be short. With WW I got 52 1/2gr without a gas check. I'm assuming it'll hit 54 to 55 gr with a gas check.

[Pathfinder1cav]

I got my mould this afternoon & cast a few up of wq/ww. weigh 51 gr. & mine are .2255" & that is how they come out of the Lee .225 sizer using annealed Hornaday checks. I had some BLC-2 in the powder measure & set it to 18 grs. estimating that would do maybe 2100 -2200 fps in my DPMS- CMP AR-15 (1:8-20"). I also put some together using 7.0 Green Dot that I expect should be a little north of 2000. I also used the same loads, but with a 225438 bullet & just before dark, headed to the range as it is supposed to shower/snow tomorrow(5 min. away)- didn't have time to chrono them.
The first thing that I found out was the that the moderate LFC was not enough with the FN Bator out of a magazine- hung up on the chamber mouth & sent the bullet into the case. The rest were hand chambered, single shot. There was not enough power in any of the loads to cycle the rifle anyway!
Just quick & dirty FWIW- 100y three round groups that do not prove much at all, but the Bator seemed to want to shoot 4-1/2 Moa & the 438 half that @ 2-1/4 Moa. The Green Dot load shot apx. 7" lower & the scope had to be set for 200y to be on @ 100y with the blc-2 load.
The rifle will do .75" with worked up condom loads- I don't expect that with cast, but with a little work, maybe 1.5"? It will be interesing to see what can be done out of some of your bolt guns.
I'm thinking that I might play at making a cherry to make a bit longer spire point nose (60+ gr.?) in one of the cavities & use it to try & get a good feed & cycle out of a magazine.
By the way, I fooled around a little trying to make a gas check out of a brass WLR primer, as someone mentioned on this board one time. The brass is pretty hard for reforming- maybe annealing would help...... makes no practical sense.. just a challenge :>) ...Dennis

[waksupi]

Pathfinder, keep in mind if you water quenched those bullets yesterday, they won't reach thier full hardness until today sometime, or maybe tomorrow.

[Pathfinder1cav]

Waksupi,
Yep, probably will take a week or two, but not driving them as fast as you indicated that you were, they seemed to hang together OK- no leading. I think that they start about bhn 14-15 & will go to about 18-20 after awhile- spose I should test them. I also cast some acww to try also- seems like I read of some reasonable success with those right about 2,000 fps. Maybe the low mass of the .22 bullets air cool faster & harden more than my normal 550 gr. BPCR bullets that usually measure about Bhn 10! I'll bump the load up a bit when they get harder & see how they do.
I noticed that John Goins kept his around 2K using a slower twist bolt gun & was getting VG accuracy with a part linotype bullet. How did yours hold together at higher vel.? Dennis
I'm thinking that the faster 1:8 twist is going to need the harder bullet to push it much faster to keep from stripping

[waksupi]

Pathfinder, no idea how they were holding together. I shot it enough to get a good load, and used it on a couple gopher strafing trips to Alberta. Never did locate a spent bullet. The darn things were too small for me to deal with so got rid of it. So, I will never know! I do believe Bullshop, Jr. has done quite a bit of shooting in the same velocity range, and he may have an answer to your question.

[Pathfinder1cav]

FWIW, Just for the heck of it I made a small nose type cherry & ran one cavity of my new Bator mould to .65"(60gr.) long instead of .525" (51gr.) & shot both bullets together out of my 8 twist AR- couple different powder loads 6.0 Green Dot, 8.0- 2400 & 18.0 Blc-2. The longer bullet shot from 1.25-2 Moa & the Bator shot 4-4.5 Moa- just a small tes, but interesting.
Also at around 2,000 fps, those RPM's are up around 180,000!

[redneckdan]

They're out of stock again. :groner: I'm getting ahold of a .223 rem contender and I'm looking for moulds. Hopefully they will restock soon.

[NVScouter]

I ordered in Late Nov and still no mould. Anybody else in the same boat?

Any good loads fo this when and if it shows for a 22-250?

[Swamprat1052]

How does this bullet do in 223? I have both 223 and a 22-250, if they ever have one is stock I'll order one.

Swamprat

[Crosshair]

Looks like an interesting Mold. I'll probably get a Lyman mold and shoot them using reduced loads out of my 22-250 since I sold my .223 Handi-Rife today. (All that custom work and now it won't group worth a damm.:cry: ) Going back to my roots and busting out the 22-250.

[JIMinPHX]

I use the Bator in my Handi, 1/9" twist, with 4227 I have had good accuracy at 2300fps, but going to 2500fps, the 1" at 50 yds group opens up to 2-3".
Still a nice small game, target load at 2300fps.

What caliber would that 1:9 Handi be in? I thought that all the .223 Handi rifles were 1:12.

[JIMinPHX]

I just followed that link to the Midsouth page on the Bator mold. I didn’t know that Lee would make a .22 cal mold. When I looked on their website, the smallest diameter mold that I saw was 7mm. I had thought that for .22s, you were stuck with the $50+ molds from the expensive guys. This is very good news for me.

[SWIAFB]

22 Bator molds on back-order
Just curious, I have two on back-order. How many other members have open back-orders with Midsouth ?

[hornsurgeon]

the bador won't be ready for another 4 months according to lee

[waksupi]

When you see those special order molds on the site, they will not put in thier order until they reach a minimum number. Then they place the order. Sorta like an extended group buy. You are as well off trying to find enough people here who want one of the design, and ordering without the middleman.

[PatMarlin]

FWIW, Just for the heck of it I made a small nose type cherry & ran one cavity of my new Bator mould to .65"(60gr.) long instead of .525" (51gr.) & shot both bullets together out of my 8 twist AR- couple different powder loads 6.0 Green Dot, 8.0- 2400 & 18.0 Blc-2. The longer bullet shot from 1.25-2 Moa & the Bator shot 4-4.5 Moa- just a small tes, but interesting.
Also at around 2,000 fps, those RPM's are up around 180,000!


That sounds great.

Do you have any pics of your mold mod, boolits, and cherry?

[drinks]

Jim, in 2006, NEF went to 1/9 twist in the .22 barrels, including .223. which I have.

[JIMinPHX]

22 Bator molds on back-order
Just curious, I have two on back-order. How many other members have open back-orders with Midsouth ?

I ordered one

[Lead melter]

OK, I'll fulfill my elected position of Village Idiot and ask. What is the significance of the 'Bator' mold and what are its advantages?

[drinks]

LM, it is cheap, it shoots decently, it is gas checked and has a wide meplat so it makes nice holes in paper and critters, the 53 gr weight is a nice compromise for everything from .22 Hornet with 1/ 14, 1/12 " pitch to those .22s with 1/9 or tighter pitch.
Useful, fun and again, cheap.

[JIMinPHX]

22 Bator molds on back-order
Just curious, I have two on back-order. How many other members have open back-orders with Midsouth ?

I just bumped my order up to two pieces. If nothing else, I can always use it as a blank set of blocks & bore it to whatever larger boolit size I may need for another project.

[JIMinPHX]

Jim, in 2006, NEF went to 1/9 twist in the .22 barrels, including .223. which I have.

They must have gone back again. The barrel that I just got from them brandie-new is 1:12. I just measured it.

[leftiye]

NEF is becoming, in my perception, a scary company to trust for quality. There doesn't seem to be any information as to their specs that one can trust. That generally translates into (= another way of saying this is) being sloppy workmanship. A gun doesn't have to be sloppy to be cheap. These guys have no quality control, and switch specifications as often as most of us change socks. I just got a .22 Hornet barrel from them that is 1 in 10, (and it p!$$*d me off, even TC makes a 1 in 14 Hornet barrel). Bore diameter, groove depth, twist rate - all vary with every new report, and anything is "within (their) specs," - just ask them.

[PatMarlin]

It's great if a manufacture makes an affordable firearm, but cheap ones never are worth squat in the long run. They scare me even. Who knows when the sloppyness reaches the dangerous point.. :roll:

And then there are times like the horrible Winchester periods. I saw a used Buffalo Bill commemorative for sale up here, that had the dang barrel bored a good 1/8" off center in an octagon barrel.

[JIMinPHX]

Ordered mine in February...
Still not in...
Website now says end of July...
waiting....
waiting.......
waiting..........

[Pathfinder1cav]

Pat,
Whoops, I guess that I don't check in very often- just now saw your guestion about a photo of the cherry & Bator mould that I modified. Sorry, but I am not computer literate enough to take pictures & post them, but I'll give you a description. I just turned out the nose cherry on a mini-lathe out of 1/4" mild steel rod. Shaped the nose ogive close to a regular RN .22LR and stepped the rest of it down to not interfere with the grease grooves of the mould. I filed cutting flutes about 120 degrees around the nose (did not harden it as it was a one time use on aluminum).
Even though I have a four jaw chuck for the lathe, I'm sort of embarassed to say that I just clamped it in my drill press & ran the cherry progressively deeper till I got it to where it would throw a 62 gr. bullet. I ended up doing both cavities because it shot so much better in the AR-15 than the regular Bator. Some time I ought to try boing a bit deeper to 75 gr. as those Condum bullets in that weight shoot the best in that rifle- fun to experiment.
I used to live a couple of blocks from a bullet mold maker and would occasionaly do a little milling of blocks for him. I mostly shoot BPCR (just returned from the Quigley- wife got high senior lady), so I mostly fool around with 500+ up to 606 gr. bullets (.45). One of the bullets that we shot in the Quigley was Lee's 500-3R that I modified- will do Moa or less under good conditions in a .45-70 Pedersoli- has too much windage (in more than 8-10 mph) for long range shooting (300-1000 yds.), but elevation still holds 1-1.5 Moa out there!
Playing with those itty-bitty bullets was interesting & get you a lot more per pound of lead than the typical 11-12 per pound in BPCR boolits! Make BP smoke...... Dennis

[PatMarlin]

Finally...! :groner:

I've been sitting here waiting, and waiting, and waiting... :mrgreen:

Pretty clever there.. :drinks:

[JIMinPHX]

They're in again!

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000622BATOR

I spoke to them this afternoon & mine shipped today.

[Maximilian225]

Thanks Jim, order placed, been watching it and the 6.5 since Jan.

:drinks:

[SWIAFB]

Yee hah, after 5 months on order my pair of 22 bator molds are in transit. I feel like a child on Cristmas Eve. Can't wait to put my hands on them.

[JIMinPHX]

They're out again. That didn't take long. They probably only ordered 1 or 2 extras for stock.

[DLCTEX]

I called to check on mine,ordered in March, it was shipped yesterday. DALE

[DLCTEX]

Well my 22 Bator mold was delivered finally. problem is they sent it to Armoredman who I had bought a mold for in a trade we made. He was kind enough to notify me and let me pay the shipping from Az. to Tx.. I had ordered the Bator mold about a month before I ordered the one for Armoredman, I guess when the backorder came in, his address came up in relation to my name. Midsouth is not scoring points well with me. I am still waiting to cast some 22's. DALE

[Maximilian225]

Received my order yesterday, the Bator mold was missing, sent a 8mm Max in its place.

I called and got a lady on the phone on the first ring. She located my mold they had not shipped in about a minute and sent it out Fedex that day with a prepaid return label to send the 8mm back.

I was impressed. Other online shooting suppliers I have dealt with do not ship the correct item until they receive their error back.

:Fire:

[NVScouter]

Finaly got mine shipped. Not a fan of Midsouth's CS or Purchasers after this my first and most likely last order from them. Been getting the run around since nov from them.

[JIMinPHX]

I had Lee ship me the wrong thing once. After I called them, they shipped the correct thing right out without waiting for me to return the incorrect item. Lee & Midsouth have always given me excellent service (with the exception of Lee shipping the wrong item that one time).

I'm still waiting for my Bator though...

They said that it shipped.

[compass will]

I got mine while I was away. it was waiting on the front porch when I got home today.

Fired up the pot, cleaned the mold and away we went. Just WW cast OK, but needs more tin.
then I cleaned out the pot and melted down 400 Hunter Hard Cast 32 special boolits I will never use. the mold works real nice. Never got it hot enough to frost, I am going to have to speed up to get that affect. anyway, I threw everything back into the pot until my Sizer parts get in (tomorrow), then I will dip the mold to get it hotter, then I will water drop, size and shoot. Maybe load up 100 for this weekend.

[JIMinPHX]

Mine showed up today.

[compass will]

Mine showed up today.

Sure is a small bullet ain't it? :-D

[JIMinPHX]

Wow, this is really disappointing. I waited 6-months for this???? A pair of mould blocks that don’t line up.

[HORNET]

Jim, I've seen that condition on a few other 2-cav Lee's lately. I usually consider them to be the raw material for a real mold. They can be fixed to work well, it's just a shame that Lee doesn't seem to have heard of quality control. If you're really upset about it, I'll take it off your hands :kidding:.

[mainiac]

Check my thread on the boolit mold section about these molds, apparently. there in stock again,as of this morning!

[JIMinPHX]

It turned out not to be as bad as I thought. I cast a few with the mould like that, just on the off chance that it was intentional to give extra venting because of such a small cavity. The boolits came out with misalignment of the two halves that matched the misalignment of the block tops. OK, so this told me that the cavities were good to the top surfaces (sigh of relief).

Something (oh geeze, I hope its not the pins) was holding the two blocks out of position. After a little careful observation, I realized that the handles were a press fit to one of the blocks. I opened up the slot in the block from about .169” to 3/16” & everything cleared up. A little clearance between the block slot & the handle was all I needed.

The mould now casts good boolits at about .2254-.2260 depending on how hot I run the pot & if I quench the boolits or not. It seemed to run good with the pot around 650-670 degrees. I put about 2 pounds through it before the sprue plate started to feel a little stiff & I stopped because I didn’t want to risk gauling up the tops of the blocks on the first day out.

After I got done casting, I did a little more measuring, which I should have done in the first place. I found that the block slots on this Bator were the same as on my other Lee moulds, but the steel in the handles was a little thicker. That’s what caused the press fit, bad tolerance on the handles.

Now I’ve got to figure out what charges I’m going to load under these things. I’ll probably start out with about 10 grains of 2400 in a .223. I may hollow point a few to try out that way too.

[HORNET]

Oh, Pooh! I was going to try to scam you out of an obviously defective product at a steep discount [smilie=1:. You might want to try up around 15 gr of IMR-4895 or 16.5 of IMR-4064 with a small pistol primer, seated into firm contact with the rifling. Nudge some both ways in 0.3 gr steps to see what it likes. 5 shot group min. (3 will LIE to you).

[compass will]

I cast up around 300 today with the Bator. First let mold sit on top of pot while it heated up, then dipped it for 15 seconds and started casting (bottom feeder pot).
I water dropped them, dried them and took them inside to run through the sizer.
I only threw away 8! I would say this mold works well. It's hard to get it hot enough to frost but I did have maybe 10 out of 300 that were frosted. I think they were the ones from just after I had dipped the mold.

in the 22-250 case, sized at .225" they fit in the neck of the case nice after fire forming then using the lee collet die.

[compass will]

Anybody got any starting points for this bullet? this is a 22-250. I have the following powder in the shop. H4198, H4895, Clays and Trail boss.

The guy at Hodgdon said to take the max load of h4895, multiply it by .6 and you can safely use that as a starting point. That puts me around 21 grains to start. Sound to fast?

[felix]

No, not too fast for any flavor of 4895, and go up to find a sweet spot. Also, use the same amount of 4198, but go downwards to seek a sweet spot. Start at 50 yards, though, because the boolit MIGHT start to wander past 100 yards due to the meplat. I personally like this boolit, but simply shoot it slower for closer ranges, like between 80 and 120 yards only. I use 225646 for 200 yards with approximately the same velocity (I use V-V powders). Use regular LR primers. ... felix

[compass will]

I knew I had read a formula for reduced loads. Looking in the lee book I found it.
But his math is coming out at around 16 grains of H4895 would put you around 2100fps.