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Cloudpeak
11-18-2007, 08:27 PM
Well, this will never happen again. Prior to buying a mold for bullets for my 2 1/4" SP101 .357, I bought some Chey Cast 158 RNFP bullets to see what kind of groups I could get. I shot at 7 yards, single action off a bench. My best group was 5 shots at .41" with 3.4 grains of Clays. The next best group was twice as large and the worst groups were over 2 inches.

I tested loads from 2.8 to 3.5 grains of Clays. This certainly has to be dumb luck and I'd be surprised if it's repeatable. If it is, I don't think I'll be buying a 38 cal. mold. I'll just buy the Chey-Cast. This load shot to POA at 7 yards which was what I was looking for. I tried working up loads for the oversize 125 grain 9mm bullets out of my 6 cavity mold with no luck. Lousy groups.

Please, please, don't let this be a fluke:mrgreen:

Cloudpeak

dubber123
11-18-2007, 08:36 PM
Nah, not a fluke. under 1/2" at 7 yards, sure. The short barreled guns shoot just fine. They're just alot harder to shoot. When I used to shoot much more than I do now, my 1-7/8" S&W mod 60 would shoot under 2" at 25 yards with hollowbase wadcutters. I can still bounce a tin can around pretty easy at that range, so I'm sure the gun shoots as good as ever. Best thing to do if you like the gun is to shoot the crap out of it. When I only had my old mod 10, I was very proficient with it. Now I've got lots of them, and I'm just so so at shooting them. Spend too much time trying to get them, and not enough time shooting them! Good luck with yours.

Cloudpeak
11-18-2007, 09:55 PM
Nah, not a fluke. under 1/2" at 7 yards, sure. The short barreled guns shoot just fine. They're just alot harder to shoot. When I used to shoot much more than I do now, my 1-7/8" S&W mod 60 would shoot under 2" at 25 yards with hollowbase wadcutters. I can still bounce a tin can around pretty easy at that range, so I'm sure the gun shoots as good as ever. Best thing to do if you like the gun is to shoot the crap out of it. When I only had my old mod 10, I was very proficient with it. Now I've got lots of them, and I'm just so so at shooting them. Spend too much time trying to get them, and not enough time shooting them! Good luck with yours.

I sure hope you're right, dubber. I'm sure having a lot of fun with the SP101. It's my first double action revolver in well over 30 years. The sights aren't the best but, then, neither are my eyes. Maybe they'll cancel each other out:-D

Cloudpeak

dubber123
11-18-2007, 10:02 PM
Cloudpeak, I help run our clubs pistol shoots, and we have some guys that hadn't shot much in years. Once they got going, and saw themselves improving, well thats a different story! Next thing you know they are buying guns again, gettting into reloading, casting the whole deal. You'll be surprised how quick you pick up shooting that DA revolver. Most of the guys at the club end up preferring the revolver, myself included. We do a falling plates shoot, and my times are less than a second slower with a revolver than the auto. Seems easier to shoot the revolver too. Have fun!

Cloudpeak
11-18-2007, 10:30 PM
We have a really great group of folks in our steel plate club. I've been shooting plates for just over a year and it's great fun. The group of people in our club have been a lot of fun to be around and shoot with.

I shot single actions for quite a few years and just sold my Ruger 6 1/2" Blackhawk 44 magnum that I bought in 1969. I shot my first deer with that gun and many coyotes, badgers and wild dogs on my ranch through the years. Then, I got busy making a living and hadn't shot much until retiring and moving to Wyoming.

A couple of years ago, I bought my first semi auto center fire, a XD40SC and started shooting plates (and casting bullets and reloading, again). I never won a match but would sometimes finish in the top 3 or 4. Then a friend let me shoot his 1911. I now have two of those and have been shooting plates with the 5" Springfield. I actually won once which was a surprise, shooting the 1911.

A couple of the best shots in our club are a really nice, young couple. She shoots a S&W 7 shot revolver and is very good. Her husband switches between revolvers and semi autos and is good, as well. Often, the final two in the match will be husband vs. wife.

When I won, they were both shooting revolvers. I think they were having an "off" day and I was extremly lucky. I got to shoot the Smith 7 shot and that reminded me, "hey, this is fun and I don't own a double action revolver so should probably buy one."

We have a couple or three shoots every year where shooters are limited to 6 rounds to make the revo shooters more competitive with semi auto shooters which is great fun. I guess I'd be a little handicapped with the 5 shot but, if I can get to where I can really shoot the Ruger, I may give it a try.

We have a really nice, older fella who shoots a tricked out Glock who will generally win when he shows up. He's really good. This summer, he invited a friend from MN to shoot with us. What a thing to watch that was! 5 plates-5 shots down in the blink of an eye. He never shot more than 5 shots. He made our best shots look pretty bad. Later, we found out he was ranked like around 15th in the nation in IDPA or one of those other organizations. He was a really nice guy and it was a pleasure watching him shoot. This was the first time I'd seen anything like it and it was great.

Cloudpeak

biggome
11-18-2007, 11:13 PM
Well I'm glad to see someone else with good luck out of a .357 Mag. SP-101!

I bought a 2.25 incher about 15 years ago and I was so impressed with my ability to shoot it I bought a 3.125 incher about 5 years ago and I found myself even more impressed!

I am not a very good shot with a handgun. My former match winning '58 HighStandard Supermatic .22 target pistol performs only "so so" for me. My 6.5" three screw .357 Blackhawk can only be counted on for lack luster performance especially when the 9mm cylinder is in use though my '43 Colt 1911-A1 does quite well for what it is and even my 3.75" 45 Colt Vaquero will shoot fairly well if I correct enough for the usual "low and left" condition they all seem to have.

I could go on and on, a lot of stuff I have that others can shoot well I can't seem to do much with. I am always more than happy to take my .357 Mag. SP-101 (either short or shorter barrel) to be able to redeem faith in my shooting abilities to myself which is what matters with this type of firearm.

I don't know what it is with them and I don't really care, from 0-50 yards I can put my 158 grain LSWC's @ 1100 fps on the money all of the time with a SP-101 which has made them my "go to guns" when I need one.

If commercial cast is working for you then stick with it though I have found that the rather rough bores of my stainless Rugers perform better with LLA tumble lubed boolits cast out of WW and are easier clear the bores with a only few hot j-bullets needed to remove leading every 100 or so rounds.

If you said I had to have only one handgun it would be a .357 Mag. SP-101 for sure!

Paul

Cloudpeak
11-19-2007, 12:26 AM
If commercial cast is working for you then stick with it though I have found that the rather rough bores of my stainless Rugers perform better with LLA tumble lubed boolits cast out of WW and are easier clear the bores with a only few hot j-bullets needed to remove leading every 100 or so rounds.
Paul

Well, the next thing on my "to do" list is to try & come up with a good bullet I can cast. I'd like to stay with the Lee 6 cavity molds. I'm a bit gun shy after my failure to find a load that would shoot in my 9mm M&P. I tried several different powders and charge weights with the Lee 124 grain round nose bullets out of a Lee 6 cavity mold. I just could not find a load that would group consistantly. The pistol is very accurate with the 115 grain WWB ammo.

In any other gun I've owned, I've always been able to come up with a powder/charge combo that shoots well with any given bullet. I guess the M&P just doesn't like the 124 grain lead Lee bullet.

Cloudpeak

IcerUSA
11-19-2007, 10:32 AM
Hey Cloudspeak , ask on the swap board for a few boolits of the diameter you want , I'm sure you would get enough different design boolits to see what works in that weapon , then you would know what mould (mold) to get for sure .

My old Firestar shoots the 124 OK , have some WC's for a 357 at 140ish gns that I tried in it but had to push them in the case quite deep but they shot good , waiting for a GB in the light weight boolit to see how that little Firestar likes them .

As said before on many threads , each weapon likes what it likes and the rest will be dismal performance , good luck finding what your weapon likes and half the fun is finding nirvana :)

Keith

Cloudpeak
11-19-2007, 12:19 PM
Hey Cloudspeak , ask on the swap board for a few boolits of the diameter you want , I'm sure you would get enough different design boolits to see what works in that weapon , then you would know what mould (mold) to get for sure .

My old Firestar shoots the 124 OK , have some WC's for a 357 at 140ish gns that I tried in it but had to push them in the case quite deep but they shot good , waiting for a GB in the light weight boolit to see how that little Firestar likes them .

As said before on many threads , each weapon likes what it likes and the rest will be dismal performance , good luck finding what your weapon likes and half the fun is finding nirvana :)

Keith

Garandsrus has pm'd me and we have a swap going on as we speak:-D

I've always been able to eventually find a powder/charge wt. that would work with almost any bullet in any gun. The M&P is the only gun I've failed to make work in many years. Oh, well, I know the WWB 115 grain clad loads work.

I continue to be amazed at the drastic change in groups a .1 of a grain of powder can make in group size. I would assume that charges of +/- a tenth of a grain on either side would be approximately the same group size and sometimes the groups are close with some guns. With the Ruger, 3.4 grains of Clays shoot .41". 3.5 gr shoot .94 and 3.3 shoot 1.10". The question in my mind---will my LNL powder measure consistantly drop 3.4 grains of Clays?

Cloudpeak

felix
11-19-2007, 12:27 PM
Always test the load with the loading equipment that you will ALWAYS use for production. Do your very best to load by volume rather than by weight. So, that means your powder measure should have a volume clicker, like camera f-stop lenses if you will. Write that number down for a return. Find a load hopefully one click in either direction has zero effect on the point of impact and naturally the group size. ... felix

Cloudpeak
11-19-2007, 10:16 PM
Always test the load with the loading equipment that you will ALWAYS use for production. Do your very best to load by volume rather than by weight. So, that means your powder measure should have a volume clicker, like camera f-stop lenses if you will. Write that number down for a return. Find a load hopefully one click in either direction has zero effect on the point of impact and naturally the group size. ... felix

I have a LNL progressive and use the non micrometer pistol insert (the cheaper cost insert) in the LNL powder measure. No clicker or index marks on this drum. I generally set it for different charges by weighing the charges until I'm dialed in. Are you referring to something like the micrometer insert?

When working up loads, I use an old Pacific powder measure with a pistol insert and weigh each charge. Mainly, I'm looking to see that the measure is dropping consistant weight charges. If it does, I assume that it is also dropping the same volume?

Thanks, Cloudpeak

felix
11-19-2007, 10:49 PM
Cloudspeak, the objective is to find accurate loads at the velocity intended. An accurate load is one where the powder can be off from one cartridge to the next by some beneficial error of some sort. THIS is what you want to emulate when loading with a scale. I actually prefer a scale that is not 100 percent consistent from throw to throw. Ball powders are extremely consistent in just about any measuring device, so they don't count. It is the flakey stuff that is flakey with the faster powders. The tube powders are generally slow enough across the board to not matter enough to worry about anyway. You do need some powder measure that has a clicker of some sort, or at least a set of index lines that are numberable some way. Yes, you can play with the scale to calibrate your powder horn, but that is actually more trouble than fun. One day you will measure 'x' grains, and the next day that same deal will measure 'y' grains for the same volume. Consistent powder volumes means consistent performance for most powders, at least with the chemistry used most often for them. Some of the newer powders, this little rule might not hold up in court. But don't bet on it. Figure some way to get an indexer on your loading machine and start adjusting loads via the number of clicks left or right. If the variation of accuracy is excessive between adjacent clicks, change to a different powder for that cartridge combo at that velocity intention. ... felix

biggome
11-20-2007, 03:42 AM
As far as the Lee 124 grainer is concerned, I have a 6 cavity TL mold and have had pretty good results with it out of my 9mm Star BM and rather spectactular results out of said boolit in my .380!

My .380 is a WWI Husky 9 mm Browning long (1903 Browning hammerless design) that was sleeved down to .380 ACP for import back in the '50s since they had been replaced by the 9mmP arms in 1940, there were a bunch of the old "underpowered" pistols left in Sweedish stocks for quite some time 'till they ended up over here in modified form even though they required a bit of a recoil spring trim to get them to function with .380 ACP ammo.

It is always a matter of "what likes what" and even though I don't like the looks of th 124 grain Lee it seems to work well for me

Paul