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View Full Version : Going to cast some lyman 173 grain 30/30. need help with lead mix suggestions.



fireguy715
11-23-2013, 02:16 PM
I'm going to cast some lyman 173 grain 30/30. They will be gas checked. I'm planning on pushing them 2000+ FPS. Need some advise on lead mix. Here is what i have to work with: lynotype, wheel weight lead, 63% solder. Thanks

geargnasher
11-23-2013, 03:27 PM
If you're going to hunt with them, use straight wheel weights with maybe a pinch of solder. If you're just going to punch paper, water-quench the same mix. Better yet, trade your Lino for some pure lead and use a 50/50 mix of pure/wheel weights and water-drop them. Not that you asked, but I've had good luck with powders in the 4198/4895/3031/748/LeverEvolution range to achieve accurate 2K+ velocities in my .30-30s.

Gear

Bret4207
11-23-2013, 06:07 PM
What Gear said. Save the lino for something special down the road. Good clean WW alloy with maybe a little tin added to help fillout is all 90% of the casters in the world need. It's fer sure all any hunter needs.

btroj
11-23-2013, 06:30 PM
I would prefer a 50/50 WW/pure bullet water dropped for hunting in a 30/30.

Lino is saved for when it is really needed or is used in small amounts to make pure more like WW.

Kraschenbirn
11-23-2013, 06:38 PM
+1 more on Gnashers advice. I cast that same Lyman boolit from 50/50 COWWs/range scrap, water dropped, for my Savage 340 bolt gun without any leading at 2030 fps (chrono'd).

Bill

Larry Gibson
11-23-2013, 10:36 PM
I would prefer a 50/50 WW/pure bullet water dropped for hunting in a 30/30.

Lino is saved for when it is really needed or is used in small amounts to make pure more like WW.

+1.

I would also add enough of the solder to the COWWs so you are adding 2% tin. Then mix with lead at 50/50.

I also now use LeveRevolution powder with this bullet. I have a thread on it so do a search for LeveRevolution powder.

Larry Gibson

btroj
11-23-2013, 10:41 PM
Never used LeveRevolution powder. I used RE15 as I had a bunch. Wasn't the highest velocity but it worked well. Certainly aren't going to over load a 30-30 with it.

quilbilly
11-23-2013, 11:13 PM
Given that WW are getting progressively harder to find, this is what I use - 65% pure lead + 30% hard bird shot + 5% solder (50/50 or 60/40).
I watch the small gun shows swap meets and garage sales for partial bags of old bird shot which has lots of antimony and arsenic for hardening. This alloy even when water quenched seems to offer good expansion and accuracy.
BTW - Real lead/tin solder is also getting harder to find so an alternative tin source is tin fishing splitshot sinkers you can get at most Walmart stores as lead-free sinkers. Just add more pure lead with the sinkers to get the proper 2% approx alloy.

fireguy715
11-23-2013, 11:53 PM
WW and a little solder it is. I'm getting mixed responses on water dropping. will it harden it very much?

Larry Gibson
11-24-2013, 08:45 AM
WW and a little solder it is. I'm getting mixed responses on water dropping. will it harden it very much?

When WQ it is important that you get the bullet into the water right out of the mould as soon as it has solidified while it is still hot enough to harden effectively. As soon as the sprue hardens cut it open and drop the bullet out of the mould into the water right now. Don't mess around as the alloy cools a lot quicker than you think. Getting the bullet into the water quick enough is the key to WQing hardness consistency.

The bullet will hit max hardness in 24 - 48 hours.

Larry Gibson

btroj
11-24-2013, 09:12 AM
It will harden it quite a bit.

Bret4207
11-24-2013, 09:49 AM
My only question is WHY do you want to WC? It's not like it's a lot of extra work, but I think you're better off trying them air cooled and WQ and see which one shoots better. In the end I'm not sure that there's a lot of actually performance difference on game and what there is tends to favor the AC IMO and IME.

BCB
11-24-2013, 11:02 AM
http://i39.tinypic.com/300qqkm.jpg

I shoot that boolit from a Model ’94 using 35 grains of WC-852 for a velocity of 1711 fps…

I use straight wheel weights that test at or near BHN of 9 using a SAECO tester…

The pic I included (hopefully) shows one that I shot a couple of days ago through a beer can filled with water and then it went into about 4” of soaked paper--the distance was 50 yards...

It does show a bit of expansion…

Don’t know how it might do with deer though. But, you will be trying for more velocity than I have so you may do fine…

Good-luck…BCB

Idaho Mule
11-24-2013, 11:03 AM
This is my take on water dropping. I know that it hardens the outer surface of the boolit. How deep this hardening goes, I do not know, but I believe it does go deeper as the boolit ages. What I like about water dropping is that it allows me to work my boolits (size, lube, load) pretty much right after casting without de forming. I like to use an alloy of 70/30 ww/pure wich ends up pretty soft without water dropping. By water dropping I can size and load the boolits right away. I have also found that air cooled are just fine to work with if they have aged for 60 days or more. JW

BCB
11-24-2013, 11:09 AM
This is my take on water dropping. I know that it hardens the outer surface of the boolit. How deep this hardening goes, I do not know, but I believe it does go deeper as the boolit ages. What I like about water dropping is that it allows me to work my boolits (size, lube, load) pretty much right after casting without de forming. I like to use an alloy of 70/30 ww/pure wich ends up pretty soft without water dropping. By water dropping I can size and load the boolits right away. I have also found that air cooled are just fine to work with if they have aged for 60 days or more. JW

I don't know if they need 60 days or more...

I cast and sometimes size and lube after a couple of days...

This mostly happens as I shoot them till I am out of supply and then I am "forced" to cast and I sure can't wait 60 days!!!...

Good-luck...BCB

geargnasher
11-24-2013, 02:45 PM
When the antimony level falls below about 2% the water-quenched time to full hardness can be over a month, and this time increases as the antimony level falls.

50/50 WW/Pure with 1% total additional tin usually takes 2-4 weeks to settle in when water-quenched and will reach 18-22 BHN, almost like Linotype but much more malleable upon impact and can be shot faster without abrasion leading than Lino can.

The reason to try water-quenching for the .30-30 is that at the top end, 21-2300 fps, straight wheel weights air cooled just might not shoot straight, especially in a 10-twist, micro-groove Marlin. Water-quenched 50/50 with a dash of tin will shoot well and kill well from 2K-2400 fps in any .30-caliber. For under 2K, an air-quenched alloy is usually fine.

Gear

Shuz
11-24-2013, 03:15 PM
Based on articles I've read that were written by a metallurgist, I size my boolits first and then heat treat them in an oven and then quench as a batch. This insures that all boolits will achieve the same hardness, because they all hit the water at the same time/temperature. Also, metallurgists claim that when you size after quenching(heat treating), you are actually work softening the sides of the boolit that come into contact with the rifling. If you are trying to obtain maximum surface hardness to grip the rifling better, you are defeating said purpose. However, if you are quenching to control expansion, it's a mas nix situation.