45-70 mold question

[glockky]

I have been looking at getting a 45-70 mold for a while and just cant make up my mind. I really plan to go with NOE's 350gr bullet. But what I cant make my mind up on is whether I need a gas check mold. This bullet will be for hunting.

I started casting this year and have had success with my 44 mag using gas checked bullets cast of 50/50 WW/PB air cooled. This load took my first deer with cast bullets. After doing this though I thought I probably could have gotten by with a plain base mold for the 44 in a revolver. I dont want to make that mistake with the 45-70.

My 45-70 is a thompson center encore pro hunter with a 20" katahdin barrel. I would like to push the 350gr bullet to around 1700-1900 FPS. Is that velocity doable with 50/50 alloy that will still give me some expansion?

[colt1960]

Ive got the 4 cavity NOE 350gr HP mold with the gas check. I like the insurance of a gas check when velocity is over 1500. Some say its not needed but I will spend the extra nickel anyway. Rick!

[glockky]

I thought about that colt. These will not be shot in high enough volume for the price of the check to become and issue. I just hate to use them if its not needed.

[colt1960]

Myself included. Im not a high volume shooter either. Rick!

[Bigslug]

Stay tuned. . .I've got a theory to test that concerns us both.

I just received the Lee clone of the hollow based, 405 grain 1873 government boolit. Interesting mold with two features that make me go "hmmm. . ." The first is the relatively small hollow base pin, which will leave a fairly sturdy skirt on the rear. The second is the three ginormous lube grooves.

I'm thinking between the hollow base and a large quantity of a modern lube (Ben's Red in my case), this thing can be driven pretty hard. As I say, stay tuned.

[MtGun44]

RCBS 405 GC has been a superb boolit for me, also a superb mold.

Highly recommend.

Bill

[NVScouter]

I shoot the LEE 340 and 450g out of my 20" Handi rifle with plain base. 1900fps is going to be rough...be ready. But I'd say no at those speeds but like was said it may help and you can always get the GC cut out.

[GRUMPA]

What I would do in this case of uncertainty is ask for some to try in the Boolit Exchange area of the site. Just see for yourself first hand what would work and what wouldn't and base your mould selection on experience.

[Larry Gibson]

My 45-70 is a thompson center encore pro hunter with a 20" katahdin barrel. I would like to push the 350gr bullet to around 1700-1900 FPS. Is that velocity doable with 50/50 alloy that will still give me some expansion?

You'll want the GC'd bullet for those requirements. You will get very good expansion (given an animal of suitable size) out to 200 yards. I suggest adding 2% tin to your COWWs before adding the lead in that 50/50 alloy.

Larry Gibson

[Doc_Stihl]

I would suggest a GC above 1500fps. @$40 per 1k it's not a whole lot of money. Adds $4 per 100 rounds of ammo.
I think Grumpa makes a good point. Before you get set on a 1700-1900 fps load, you should try some. That's going to be a handful in a 20" katahdin.
While you're trying those light fast loads, you should load some 500gr+ at 1200 fps and compare.

[MikeS]

Stay tuned. . .I've got a theory to test that concerns us both.

I just received the Lee clone of the hollow based, 405 grain 1873 government boolit. Interesting mold with two features that make me go "hmmm. . ." The first is the relatively small hollow base pin, which will leave a fairly sturdy skirt on the rear. The second is the three ginormous lube grooves.

I'm thinking between the hollow base and a large quantity of a modern lube (Ben's Red in my case), this thing can be driven pretty hard. As I say, stay tuned.

You need to remember that the mould you're talking about was designed for use with black powder, not smokeless powder. That's the reason for the large lube grooves, BP needs lots more lube than smokeless does. As for the hollow base, unlike other hollow based boolits where they're designed to expand and help seal the boolit in the bore, that was not the reason for the hollow base on this boolit design. This HB is to let the lighter weight boolit have a larger bearing surface in the bore, not so much for expansion. Remember it's always better to start with a boolit that fits the bore rather than depending on expansion of the boolit to fit the boolit to the bore.

[CPL Lou]

I believe Miha still has some of these molds in stock:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133289-462-Hammer-GC-Mihec-Cramer-HP/page16
I love mine !

CPL Lou

[Wayne Smith]

I'm shooting the same gun. I shoot the Lyman 457122 Gould hollow point and an old group buy 457420 flat point boolit neither of which have gas checks. Keep them loaded to the Trapdoor level and you have no problem. I know I have some of the 457420 if you want some. I'm not sure about the 457122 since two of us are using those boolits. I do water drop these, but typically cast them out of 50/50 or 25/75 pb/ww.

[glockky]

Thanks for all the info. I am currently loading 300grain jacketed ammo around 1800 fps and the recoil doesn't bother me. I would like to stay with a lighter bullet to keep my trajectory pretty flat. I do hear the heavier bullets shoot good though.

[olereb]

I'm new to the 45-70 but out of my Rio Grande if its over 1500fps I use a 350g with check and a 350g without check if under 1500fps,i got my molds from NOE and they have been working great. I have had no issues with leading so far.

[HeavyMetal]

Anothr vote for the Lyman 457122 HP Have said mold sitting on my desk and just made 120 of them last night for my Contender 16 incher, plan to run a few through the Marlin as well to see if it likes them

Would really like to get Mihec to do a GB for a Kramer style 4 cav HP on this with just slightly larger HP area.

Someday I'll talk to him about it, someday

[glockky]

Anyone have any of the NOE 350 or 405gr bullets I could buy some of to try?

[Bigslug]

You need to remember that the mould you're talking about was designed for use with black powder, not smokeless powder. That's the reason for the large lube grooves, BP needs lots more lube than smokeless does. etc. . .etc. . .etc. . .

Such are the elements of conventional wisdom - that seem to conflict somewhat with my personal experience. My hollow-base experience has been primarily with a .455 Webley MKVI that has narrower cylinder throats than bore diameter. It should be a leader, but it is not - possibly due to the hollow-based slugs doing exactly what they are supposed to.

My thinking is that proper fit, a lot of lube with serious gasket properties staged in several locations, AND a base that maximizes obturation to our favor will stave off the need for gas checks for a few hundred FPS. Not planning on .460 Weatherby specs, to be sure, but hoping to move well into the hot Marlin section of the load manuals without getting copper involved in the process.

[FishingFool]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/03/nemugyza.jpgaccurate mold. 46-405v. It actually casts at 392 grains with 92-6-2.

No gas checks and no problems leading out of my 18.5" barrel marlins at 1650 Fps using 50/50 lube.

I tried pushing a lighter and faster bullet. The 45-70 is still a rainbow trajectory and my shoulder just hurts more. Now I'm going heavier.

[Maineboy]

I've had some pretty serious leading in my Marlin 45-70 when pushing plain based boolits over 1725 fps but very little if I keep the velocity 100 fps slower. I do shoot fairly soft boolits cast from 50/50 wheelweights and pure lead.

[detox]

The RCBS 45-300-FN with Gas Check (82051) is a good one and will KICK LESS when loaded HOT. Softer 16/1 alloy is what i would use because it mushrooms nicely. One gun writer (newest edition of Handloader mag)recently stated that 15/1 or 16/1 alloy (about 10-11 bhn) shoots more accurate than harder #2 alloy in his guns

50/50 is linotype and pure lead mix called Hardball...about 15-16 bhn

[white eagle]

I would go with a gas check for the reason you are not limited to the alloy you use
or put it this way
you can get away with more in regard to your alloy you can go softer for more expansion or you can include a hp and not worry about the alloy composition

[josper]

RCBS 405 GC has been a superb boolit for me, also a superb mold.

Highly recommend.

Bill

+1 This is my favorite mold also