Buck Kill with 32-20 ballistics

[357maximum]

The question as to whether or not a 32/20 is "sufficient" for deer hunting cmes up alot here. My answer has always been...SURE IN THE RIGHT HANDS WHY NOT? This morning I killed a buck using very similar ballistics.

I was hunting with a sleeved 10 inch contender that was made using a barrel stub from a severely mistreated 357Mag barrel that I got from RedNeck Dan. The cartridge is the 30Badger (AKA 30X38spcl) The cartridge is formed using 38 Special brass formed and necked down to 30 caliber in a standard lee 30Mauser die with a smaller expander plug installed and loaded with the standard seater. A wildcat with standard (cheap) dies...gotta love that.

My load :
4.1 grains of Tightgroup
BRP 120 grain plainbased round nosed flatpoint made of soft scrap that tests 8-9 BHN sized .311
CCI 500 SP primer
Muzzle velocity is 1210 fps


So I was sitting there about 9 am or so watching plenty of deer and having a good ol time when this horny feller came trotting in after his girlfriend. He stopped at 48-50 yards and basically stood there and said shoot me. I brought the hammer back and let him have the little 120 grain pill right through the slats. The boolit entered ideally in the centerpoint of the ribs, travelled through both lungs and exited the far side right by the diaphram ever so slightly breaking the diaphram/rib connective tissue. At the shot he lunged forwards, took a few hops and then quickly walked 12 steps or so. At that point he stopped walking then unceremoniously just tipped over sideways......stone dead 18 yards from where he stood when I tripped the trigger.

The ballistics of the 30Badger are real close to the 32-20 so I definately say "yeah" yet again to the experienced hands that choose to use such a cartridge for deer. The 32/20 was brought out as deer round and deer have not gotten tougher over the years......unfortunately the quality of many of the marksman in our midst has dwindled a bit too far for my liking however.


Now for the pics:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/badgerkill003_zpsd42ae02f.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/357maximum/media/badgerkill003_zpsd42ae02f.jpg.html)

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/badgerkill009_zps0b91f628.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/357maximum/media/badgerkill009_zps0b91f628.jpg.html)

Entrance wound:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/badgerkill007_zpsf1cee937.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/357maximum/media/badgerkill007_zpsf1cee937.jpg.html)

Exit wound:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/badgerkill008_zps86dff4b3.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/357maximum/media/badgerkill008_zps86dff4b3.jpg.html)

[Hickory]

You couldn't ask for better, unless he walked up to your truck after you shot him.

[badgeredd]

To give perspective here is a picture that compares the 32-20 with the 30 Badger on the right.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/PICT0711_zps5ac5ccc3.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/PICT0711_zps5ac5ccc3.jpg.html)

As luck would have it, the 30 Badger holds 0.1 grains less water than the 32-20 so load data was super easy to come by.

Edd

[TCLouis]

Congratulations.

Nice deer.

So looking at that picture the neck could be shortened and gain some velocity, but from the performance on that deer with a hole in and a hole out, it looks like the original cartridge is more than enough oomph.

Boolit made it through the deer and disrupted life services, what more need a boolit do?

The Lee 115 grain Soupcan and 30 Herrett any well be a better performer that anyone would expect seeing these results and that is on a Michi deer (??) vs one of our little deer.


AND we keep wondering if a 357 Mag will work?

[Wolfer]

Sometimes it's not how big the hole is but where you put the little hole. For an experienced hunter who knowes his limitations in a reasonably target rich environment this would be all he needed.
Probably not suited for the general public though, IMO. Woody

[357maximum]

No need to shorten the neck to gain velocity.....powder selection will do that for you. I chose the tightgroup because I have a bunch of it and it shoots very accurately.....a slower powder can get this 10incher to 1400+.....I deemed it unneccesary and cheaped out to lessen the asst shotgun powders left over from my competitive skeet days. I also have an 18 inch sleeved H&R topper in this caliber 1800 fps is not out of the question and 1600+ is easy.

[dk17hmr]

Obviously that buck didn't read about how under powered that round is.

Nicely done!

[btroj]

Well done.

I need to get a deer with my Marlin 32-20 one of these years.

[357maximum]

Sometimes it's not how big the hole is but where you put the little hole. For an experienced hunter who knowes his limitations in a reasonably target rich environment this would be all he needed.
Probably not suited for the general public though, IMO. Woody

Other than replacing "sometimes" with ALWAYS...I agree fully. When I am hunting a few miles south at home I get to see far too many deer that have a 12 gauge slugs put in the WRONG spot.....I always get a bit of a quiver when I hear the story.....I PUT THAT SLUG RIGHT THROUGH HIS LUNGS AND I LOST HIS TRAIL AFTER I TRACKED HIM 3/4 MILE....that is only about 1/2 step better than I must have missed him with my slug cause he kept going.

[357maximum]

Obviously that buck didn't read about how under powered that round is.

Nicely done!


Thanks Doug...this one must have missed his Kevlar innoculation. :lol:


Well done.


I need to get a deer with my Marlin 32-20 one of these years.

Thanks Brad, that 32/20 cannot getRdid sitting in the safe ya know.

[badgeredd]

So looking at that picture the neck could be shortened and gain some velocity, though it looks like this was enough.

Boolit made it through the deer and disrupted life services.

The Lee 115 grain Soupcan and 30 Herrett any well be a better performer that anyone would expect seeing these results and that is on a Michi deer (??) vs one of our little deer.

The idea behind the wildcat was a CHEAP, EASY to make cartridge for plinking and small game hunting and pest control. The neck was actually lengthened from my original prototype to make it very cast friendly. The bullet mold was made by BABore for this cartridge. It is similar to other wildcats, but again it was made to be easy all around including the forming of the brass from cheap 38 Special brass.

Edd

[btroj]

Mike, it is difficult to take a 32-20 deer hunting when a. 375 H&H is begging to put a large hunk of lead thru a deer.

So many guns, so few permits.

[357maximum]

The idea behind the wildcat was a CHEAP, EASY to make cartridge for plinking and small game hunting and pest control. Edd


OOPS sorry Edd when you were talking "small game" in the development/idea phase I thought you were talking antler size...forgive me for my confusion. :lol: The pest control part I grasped real well however and it works real well to get rid of critters of oh say the size of a pheasant munching no good fer nothing feral housecat....or so I have heard. I also firmly grasped the CHEAP and EASY part...imagine that.

[Anonym]

Nice shooting and nice deer! Makes me look like I'm cheating using that fat 45 Colt carbine...

[badgeredd]

OOPS sorry Edd when you were talking "small game" in the development/idea phase I thought you were talking antler size...forgive me for my confusion. :lol: The pest control part I grasped real well however and it works real well to get rid of critters of oh say the size of a pheasant munching no good fer nothing feral housecat....or so I have heard. I also firmly grasped the CHEAP and EASY part...imagine that.

That was the idea in the development phase. It is by no means a limit for uses. AND deer are small compared to some other critters...................

Edd

[EMC45]

Great job and write up.

[sparkz]

I am a big fan of a 30cal for deer but clearly you had done a fine job usein that gun and size and nice shot placement
after my son Sean took a buck with a 75gn 223 I now believe anything can happen and shot placement is king

Nice shootin
Patrick

[JSH]

The 32-20/30-20 is my favorite to play with.
I see a lot of 30's on the 38/357/357max case given various names.
"if" such a little word that holds a lot of us back from projects. If I had an extra lever gun in 357 I would sure be inclined to make new lever gun. If one were to go this way I am thinking of 360DW brass or shortened max brass. Keep a length that would feed but use the extra brass for the neck?
I had fooled with the 30x221 years back before Ken got me into casting. And for those of you with the latest greatest cartridge for the black rifle, the 300 blackout. Just run a 357 mag case up into it and shazam!
Use that die to neck size and a carbide 38/357 die to size the web and your done.
If I had the funds I would be posting picks rather than talking about it.
As you first comment on
"deer have not gotten tougher over the years......unfortunately the quality of many of the marksman in our midst has dwindled a bit too far for my liking however"
Oh so true. Be it jacketed, cast or sticks with a sharp point. It is all shot placement you have to hit them where they live.
Judging distance is another area a bunch of folks do poorly.
I have shot enough projectiles down range with these little sub 30's to know what they can do. Boolits from 110-225 grains and the best for me weight wise have run 120ish to 145ish. A good proper design is what we lack, at least in a common off the shelf mold.
I myself don't like the faster powders. I will just say I ran into issues before I got to the speed and accuracy I desired. Your 38 case has a lot of merit here I believe.
There are some out there that I have read on that use bullseye all across the board on various weights. Just spooks me as the accidental double charge.
I will hush and finish my coffee.
Can you see I like the little 30's?
Jeff

[smkummer]

Its posts like this that seem to prove that one can never talk bad about 30 carbine and good about 32-20 in the same sentence.

[badgeredd]

My favorite plinker load in the 30 Badger is 1.7 grains of Bullseye under a 120 BRP or a 150 grain bullet from a self customized mold that started life as a 311291. Very quiet out of a 20" barreled rifle. Another good load with the 120 is 7 grains of AA#7. There has been a lot of experimenting with light to HEAVY bullets with a multitude of powders.

Edd

[357maximum]

I have not chosen "my favorite" load for the 30BADGER yet, but I have several that just plain "work". The main reason is that the little cartridge falls into the same category as the 35REM,7TCU, and a few others.....you know them "well behaved" "loyal like an old dog" cartridges that are hard to find a load that you do not like for .....that just seem to eagerly digest whatever ya feed it cartridges.....this cartridge is one of them.

[357maximum]

Using the gale force springlike weather as an excuse (lazy) to not go out this afternoon (had to cut a deer up too). I just got done eating his inner tenders...........mmmmmmmm he sure tastes good when served southern fried next to mashed taters and asparagus.

[Junior1942]

I've wanted a 257 mag in a Mod 92 ever since I read Paco Kelly years ago. Now I want a 30-357 in a 10" bull Contender barrel. 12 twist. Soup can shooter. And there's money in my checking account. Oh no. . . .

[rockrat]

Wonder if that cartridge would work in a rechambered 30 carbine blackhawk?

[richhodg66]

I have th rack from a HUGE whitetail buck my wofe's gradpa killed about the time she and I strted dating that he killed with an M1 Carbine. He didn't reload and wasn't much of a gun nut, but had carried a carbine in WWII and liked it and was confident in it.

Where I grew up, I knew people who killed them cleanly with .22s, some of them routinely, who didn't think anything of it (it probably wasn't legal even then). While I'd prefer something with a little more bullet mass and velocity, I've killed quite a few that were very close and I would not have hesitated to use a cartridge like that on. That .30 Badger looks like a neat little cartridge.

[MarkP]

Wonder if that cartridge would work in a rechambered 30 carbine blackhawk?
If the rim thickness of 32-20 brass is close to min they will work in your 30 M1 BH. Otherwise it will lock up the cylinder due to cartridge head rubbing on recoil shield. 30 Badger may work, it is a neat looking cartridge.

[CastingFool]

Congrats, 357! Great story, that's a very nice buck. Your wildcat definitely did the job. I don't think we would be able to use that in Michigan. we have to use straightwalled cartridges.

[NSP64]

in ILL also^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Changeling]

Other than replacing "sometimes" with ALWAYS...I agree fully. When I am hunting a few miles south at home I get to see far too many deer that have a 12 gauge slugs put in the WRONG spot.....I always get a bit of a quiver when I hear the story.....I PUT THAT SLUG RIGHT THROUGH HIS LUNGS AND I LOST HIS TRAIL AFTER I TRACKED HIM 3/4 MILE....that is only about 1/2 step better than I must have missed him with my slug cause he kept going.

That is about as good a scenario as I can think of. I hear that **** all the time!

I didn't do anything wrong! It was the bullet, speed of the bullet, need biger caliber, luck wasn't with me !!
What, you mean I should have checked for a blood trail! You're Crazy, he/she didn't even slow down, probably in the next county by now!!

I'm going hunting!

Sound familiar?

[MT Gianni]

Nice going and a great write up on the cartridge.

[w5pv]

I had a great Uncle to tell me one time that the 44/40 and the 32/20 is what happened to the deer in East Texas from the latter 1800's to the present then was in the early 60's.The way he talked hunters were more interested in numbers than table fare and the repeating rifle was the blame.

[357maximum]

Congrats, 357! Great story, that's a very nice buck. Your wildcat definitely did the job. I don't think we would be able to use that in Michigan. we have to use straightwalled cartridges.

I literally live 3/4 mile south of "THE LINE" that seperates the rifle zone and the shotgun zone in Michigan. Up to my buddies that round is perfectly legal (read page 20 in the handbook), in my back yard not so. That is the reason you see me hunting with my 15 inch MGM Encore in 357Max so much, when I hunt in my backyard I carry it alot as it is basically a short handy version ot the 35 rem.

The 35Rem is also not legal on my place rifle or handgun.....they really need to fix some of the idiocy in this law. The guys shooting the high speed saboted muzzleloaders sound like rifle anymore anyway.

I plan on hunting on my acreage tomorrow so I have pulled the 30Badger barrel off the contender and replaced it with a standard 10 inch 357 Mag. If an "any buck" or a doe get within 100 yards the little 1X Burris on top of the 357 mag will seal their fate if they are farther the 357Max will speak.

[357maximum]

I've wanted a 257 mag in a Mod 92 ever since I read Paco Kelly years ago. Now I want a 30-357 in a 10" bull Contender barrel. 12 twist. Soup can shooter. And there's money in my checking account. Oh no. . . .


Glad we could help you out Junior :lol: If you put your shekyls in an envelope and sent it to Match Grade Machine, they will make it happen. :mrgreen:

[357maximum]

Wonder if that cartridge would work in a rechambered 30 carbine blackhawk?

I would worry about the case sticking at the upper ends of what this case can do, but that is just me and I do not really know. All I know about bottlenecks in revolvers is what I have read from others pen.

[missionary5155]

Greetings and Congradulations 357max !
That is one good looking Michi buck ! And I have to say the same about the cartrige !
I have not tried a 120 grainer in my 32-20's. May have to look into those. Biggest I have so far is a 115 Ideal. Good choice as it obviously will do the job on that size of a corn cruncher.
Mike in Peru

[bart55]

Great thread, I have killed whitetails with 22hornet when I was a kid ,I guess I just didn't know any better. I have hunted with cast now for about fifty years and never had one run away without dropping within a reasonable distance. I remember when I was a kid some guys that hunted with my dad were using 375 weatherbys on little Pennsylvania deer with the attitude that if they hit the hoof it would drop the deer because of the shock. They gut shot a large ten point buck that did not drop ( they didn't bother to look of course) and my dad dropped it later with a 30 30.I have also watched guys sighting in at our club that shoot shotgun patterns with their magnums and declare good enough ( I shoot better offhand with my ruger super Blackhawk then they do on the bench! It really is shameful, you can't substitute power for accuracy

[357maximum]

Thanks for the comments guys, much appreciated. I am just happy another barrel got "legitamized" into deer gitter.


BTW it was posts such as this back in my early cast days that kept me "hungry" to make it work. I see it as civic duty for a CastBoolits member to post their results with cast.....might just be a newbee or lurker that needs some "motivation" to leave the redskins at home and trust his creations will get the job done. I am at the point where 95% of my shooting is done with cast and all my deer hunting is with cast boolits. I carry full confidence knowing that my cast will GIT-R-DID....a newbee to our ranks may still be suffering some trepidation over cast.....these posts up here in the cast hunting area should help remove some of that I hope.

[Love Life]

Nice deer, solid shooting, and great write up. People get all wrapped up around certain ideas and can't let them go.

Deer are not bullet proof.
Holes kill stuff. Put holes in organs and things die.

People tend to compensate for lack of shot placement with more ME and MV. I saw it all the time in Georgia. People would hit the woods with a 300 winmag to shoot tiny deer 50-100 yds away.

[357maximum]

A 22Hornet is fully capable of deer killing in the right hands that are attached to the right mindset....seen it done several times in fact. My F.I.L killed a big ol pile of deer with a 22WMR back in the days before they made it illegal, and he was not shooting them in the head either, standard lungshot=dead buck everytime.

[TheGrimReaper]

Too cool!!!

[EMC45]

Nice deer, solid shooting, and great write up. People get all wrapped up around certain ideas and can't let them go.

Deer are not bullet proof.
Holes kill stuff. Put holes in organs and things die.

People tend to compensate for lack of shot placement with more ME and MV. I saw it all the time in Georgia. People would hit the woods with a 300 winmag to shoot tiny deer 50-100 yds away.

See and hear it all the time here in mid Ga. 7MM Mag or 300 Win Mag. I actually had a guy tell me one time that "it don't matter where you hit 'em, with the "7Mag" they go down". Shameful. Same group of folks will tell you the .308 is "not enough" and the "30-30 won't do it anymore".

[Eutectic]

The question as to whether or not a 32/20 is "sufficient" for deer hunting cmes up alot here. My answer has always been...SURE IN THE RIGHT HANDS WHY NOT? This morning I killed a buck using very similar ballistics.

I was hunting with a sleeved 10 inch contender that was made using a barrel stub from a severely mistreated 357Mag barrel that I got from RedNeck Dan.
Exit wound:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/badgerkill008_zps86dff4b3.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/357maximum/media/badgerkill008_zps86dff4b3.jpg.html)

Great job Mike! I truly enjoyed your post! Indeed.... shot placement is the key... Your quote "SURE IN THE RIGHT HANDS WHY NOT?" is so true!

I've hunted with a Winchester Model 43 .32-20 for over 50 years... Ever since a gunshop tried to 'dump' it on me so long ago! He-He.. I've never killed a deer with it, but always thought it would do just what you found out. But I've taken a lot of stuff with the .32-20 up to large varmints. Personally, I've always thought it killed beyond its size. My old buddy in my elk story still talks about a shot some 50 years ago I made with it!

The sleeved Contender really woke me up this morning! I have a couple T/C barrels I've thought about doing this to! As much as I like Contenders some of T/C's chambering/throat work is done for their convenience and certainly not for cast boolits! When I worked in Texas years' back I took several Whitetails with various Contenders and really enjoyed it. As you know, a Contender for hunting is a skill not just learned overnight!

Your 'exit wound' picture I've re-quoted above tickled me the most though Mike. While most eyes go to the hole; mine went to the glove with the trigger finger cut off! And all this time I thought I 'invented' that!!

Oh... My feet haven't quite reached the ground yet on the elk! Every phone call with my buddy it seems we re-live every moment of it! A real blessing for a couple of oldtimers for sure!

Keep up the good work Mike!

Eutectic

[357maximum]

I do not like fabric between me and the trigger, never have, some of my single shot pistols are simply not "glove" friendly either.....I save the cut off finger parts and use them for "booties" for the bipod on my 357MAX "pistol" so that the feet do not squeak on my fold out plywood storm window "benches".

I imagine that Elk will inspire alot of "chats" for some time to come....AWESOME is the only word to describe that hunt.

[357maximum]

I just vaccumed the last bag shut and put it in the freezer. He is officially venison, well minus the inner tenders and part of one top round anyway :mrgreen:

[taco650]

Congrats especially with the wildcat you used.

Threads like these remind me how much I wish I'd gotten a Contender years ago! Still waiting...

[bubba15301]

I I amgoing 2 use my 18 89 Marlin 32- 20 this year

[Bret4207]

I've been shooting the 32-20 in rifles and revolvers since the late 70's. IMO there aren't many better farm or woods tromping guns. I'd personally have no qualms about using MY 32-20 loads in MY rifles when I was the one doing the shooting. OTOH, do like a friend did and give his 17 year old non hunter son a little 32-20 Remington pump with factory ammo and sending him out int he woods is near criminal. It's a real hunters round, not for a weekend warrior that takes Hail Marys across fields or "shoots at the big part". Just have to have it in the right hands.

Good job! That 30-38 looks liek a winner to me.

[nanuk]

methinks the cutoff finger might be used for digging for "Gold" and the trigger thing was just a pure coincidence....

:kidding:

[357maximum]

methinks the cutoff finger might be used for digging for "Gold" and the trigger thing was just a pure coincidence....

:kidding:


Nope....I would cut the pinky fingers off if that was the case. :mrgreen:

[Griz44mag]

That big boy looks old, time to come out of the herd anyway. Nice shot, and nice deer. Enjoy the horns and the meat!

[**oneshot**]

Congrads! Nothing wrong at all with a 32 "ought" 20 for deer. The only reason it worked is you cheated and used a cast boolit on him. he he!

[taco650]

Can you give a little more info on how the barrel was converted to shoot a 30 cal. I'm unfamiliar with sleeving. Thanks.

[357maximum]

QUICK AND DIRTY DESCRIPTION: Basically you cut the barrel off ahead of the underlug, ream it out so that all that remains is a thin "sleeve" with an underlug welded to it, then thread the sleeve onto the threaded/shanked barrel, thread/solder the new chunk of barrel into that sleeve, chamber it and enjoy. If done correctly you do not know it is sleeved after finishing.

[nanuk]

barrel stubbing has opened up a whole new area for the SingleShots

[Jeff Michel]

Is there a difference between the .30 Reece and the .30 Badger? MGM doesn't offer .30 Badger as chambering, from what I've been able to gather is the Reece is also based on the .38 special parent case. Any clarification would be appreciated.

[357maximum]

Is there a difference between the .30 Reece and the .30 Badger? MGM doesn't offer .30 Badger as chambering, from what I've been able to gather is the Reece is also based on the .38 special parent case. Any clarification would be appreciated.

The 30 Reece dies costs more. :lol: This wildcat was done using 30Mauser standard dies. They are ballistic twins.

[Jeff Michel]

Thanks for the info, your original post finished me off. I couldn't stand it any longer so I ordered a carbine barrel from MGM yesterday and actually spoke to Carson Reece yesterday and ordered a set of dies (53.50 includes shipping). I'm betting this is one will be fun.

[357maximum]

No problem, your welcome.........Looking forward to a report WITH pics on that one....patience will be required by us both.

I have it in a 10 inch contender as well as an 18 inch (sleeved) Topper Carbine...you're gonna have fun.