How do you gently break it to someone that reloading is probably not for them?

[possom813]

I met a fellow via a local radio swap & shop, he had some primers and brass for sale.

I met him at his home, and he had a lot of questions about reloading, so I was answered everything and we sat around shooting the bull for a few hours.

Since then, I've tried to help him as best as I could being a new reloader, and I've been to his house on a few occasions to visit and help out.

But, it seems as though he doesn't grasp the basic concept of reloading.

I've explained and explained how dies work and how to reset them but he doesn't seem to get it. I just received a message from him, "I had to move my press and when I put it back on the table, the bullet is now seating too far down, how do I fix it?"

This is day one stuff that I've explained a half dozen times on how to set the dies.


It's really starting to wear on me, the basic questions that you should know after I've explained it as I have.


How can I break it to him that he may want to find a different hobby?

[brtelec]

Like this..."You need to find a different hobby" I am a firm believer in the fact that not everyone should be reloading or casting bullets. There are just so many things that can get you in trouble. The nicest thing you can do is be frank with him.

[Pb2au]

Depends are your willingness to invest more time in him.
If you want to try one more time, go over and show/explain what the task is. Insist that he takes notes.
When, not if, he calls tell him to refer to his notes.
If that doesn't work, charge him a dollar every time he asks a question. I'm dead serious. I do it all the time with people I'm training. If I get a trouble maker like that, I tell them it is a dollar from here on out for every question and walk away. Do not answer a question unless they give you a dollar. I guarantee you they will begin the think before asking.

[starmac]

Does he have a good manual, or can he read?? Maybe highlight a few sections for him. lol

[possom813]

Does he have a good manual, or can he read?? Maybe highlight a few sections for him. lol

I did that, highlighted the few parts that he didn't need to read in the abc's of reloading


The dollar idea may work, it's just exhausting answering the same questions over and over

[southpaw]

Could it be that he is afraid that he may make a mistake and is asking you since you have taken to mentoring him? Just a thought, he may need more confidence before he believes that he knows what he is doing. I would rather they ask before they do something wrong and get hurt. However I would try and get them you come up with the answer on their own without telling them. Make him realize that he knows what to do or atleast steer him in the right direction and then he might remember next time.

Jerry Jr.

[Hamish]

State it cleanly and directly. Dude sounds like a prime candidate to hurt himself and others.

I have a nephew that can take things apart and put them back together intuitively. Can't spell to save his life. Some things, some people ought not do.

[farmerjim]

Hamish, I did not know you were my unkel .

[shredder]

I feel you pain brother! I have tried to help some hopeless cases as well, and eventually had to say, "I'm sorry, but we are all done here." Not a fun thing to do, but I value my sanity.

[country gent]

There are those that are dangerous sitting in a chair. Also keep in mind alot of the younger people starting out have done very little hands on mechanical work, They have little patience and no sense of order. Taking notes is important not only on set up but load data and what components were used. All you can do is try and get him "up to speed" and thinking things thru in the right order. I have also found some have no confidence in their abilities. Start of by asking what He thinks neds to be done to cure the problem. when your doing it all for him hes got no real reason to remember it. If it comes to it be firm and explain the pressures, and what hes working with and that he may not be up to the task.

[RED333]

I feel you pain brother! I have tried to help some hopeless cases as well, and eventually had to say, "I'm sorry, but we are all done here." Not a fun thing to do, but I value my sanity.
and safety above all else.

[jonk]

I made some mistakes myself early on. I didn't have anyone to show me. I don't know how many shoulders I buckled trying for a crimp before I gave up (I can do it now) and went without.

The instructions are pretty clear; screw the sizer die in until it touches the shellholder, then 1/4 turn more. Lube. Size. Prime. Charge with correct powder. Screw the seater die in until it touches the case mouth of a sized case. Leave as is or turn in 1/4 turn for a crimp. Start with the seater stem backed out, screw in until desired OAL is reached.

We find that simple now; but again, early on that can be quite intimidating (hard to imagine now).

Remember the first time you took apart a 1911 to clean it...or your gun of choice for that matter. Took me, oh, an hour to put it together again. now I can do it blindfolded in a minute or less. Practice makes perfect.

[williamwaco]

Some people just do not want to use their mind. They want someone else to do all the thinking for them.
I do not understand that attitude but I see it all the time.

I would simply not answer the phone.

[MrWolf]

Advise him to look at you tube also if he needs a refresher. Sometimes just watching someone else may make him remember what you showed him.

[Ehaver]

Be blunt. Explain it as nice as you can. Perhaps encourage him to read more and give the reloading a rest untill he better understands...

[10-x]

Stamp collecting may be his best bet, or perhaps bird watching. Get him interested in a nice pair of binoculars and some good bird books. Doubt he can will hurt himself or others in these hobbies.:kidding:

[William Yanda]

Hamish, I did not know you were my unkel .

Now that's FUNNY

[cbrick]

Dunno if it should be gentle but breaking it to him you probably should. Be a shame to watch him pick his nose with his elbow.

Rick

[Garyshome]

Be blunt. Say you don't have the time!

[Love Life]

Brutal honesty is called for here. Sugar coating things make people think what they are doing wrong is sort of acceptable.

[Three44s]

I am not saying that this guy can be salvaged as a handloader but I like to start newbies with the color diagrams in the Hornady manuals.

They show headspace, neck space on both the sides of the neck as well as the issue of a long neck jamming into the end of the chamber as well as bullet contact with the lands.

............ if that fails to register ........ I'd either change your phone number and/or move!


Three 44s

[GaryN]

Only you can judge how best to handle the situation. We don't know his personality and his mental abilities. I have a brother-in-law who was a reloader at one time. He was showing me his new shotgun. He had reloaded his own shells. It was at dusk and he was shooting some claw pigeons. He had flames coming a foot out of the end of the barrel. He asked me if I wanted to try it. No thanks. I was easing away as fast as possible. He sold the gun to a pawn shop a month later. He said it jammed up. I have no idea what he was doing but I knew he was kinda slow. I guess I should have grabbed the gun away from him and told him to check his loads. But he was older than me and I was in my teens. Sometimes I think there must be someone watching over us. How else could we survive?

[hardy]

Stamp collecting may be his best bet, or perhaps bird watching. Get him interested in a nice pair of binoculars and some good bird books. Doubt he can will hurt himself or others in these hobbies.:kidding:

Yeh,until he comes face to face with a Condor with lead induced homicidal tendencies.........LOL! Mike

[fatelk]

I've met folks like that who should not be reloaders. I have a friend who always talks about it, and over the years I've helped him get set up with everything he needs, twice. He still has yet to load one round. I think it's for the best.

Many years ago I was taking machining classes in a local community college. There was one young guy who just couldn't get it. He wanted to learn, and to some degree tried. I remember him telling me how he was going to do well on a certain project and really show his folks and family that he was going to amount to something in life after all. The instructor ended up telling him that he was sure he must have some other talents of some kind and he really should consider giving up being a machinist and pursue those other abilities whatever they may be. I don't think he said it that nice though. I felt bad for the guy, but he really was dangerous around tools.

[badbob454]

reload him some ammo , and swap it for his equipment..tell him since you cannot reload without help ill save you the time and trouble swap or sell him your quality reloads

[possom813]

I'm going to give it another couple of weeks, see if it was just my method of teaching. I tend to get irritated and do things myself instead of making the 'student' learn how to do it.

I'm going to try it this week as strictly hands off and see if he can get it, if not, then I'm going to break it to him that he should find something else to do and I'll walk him through the loading of what he has in components.

[Whiterabbit]

I read this and see "I regret that I ever asked him for my help".

How to break it to him? Don't. He asks you a question on the phone? answer it. In brief terms, as simple as possible, with no complexities. keep it simple so it stays short. He asks you to come over to help again? Sorry, too busy.

He will get the hint. He's on his own now.

[starmac]

Everybody has there own learning curve, and in the end he may surprise you with what you are teaching him. Of course he may never get it either, you will have to be that judge.

When my Son in law got interested in mechanicing, he could break an anvil with a rubber hammer 9 out of 10 times and I was tempted to kill him lots of times, but in the end he wound up being a highly sought, high dollar cat mechanic. I am not the best teacher either, I don't have enough patience for the most part. lol

[marvelshooter]

I'm going to give it another couple of weeks, see if it was just my method of teaching. I tend to get irritated and do things myself instead of making the 'student' learn how to do it.

Since I have not seen it mentioned maybe he could benefit from a reloading class. They are quite popular here in the Northeast. The instructor(s) have a lot of patience and experience getting through to people who have never reloaded before. Just a thought.

[WILCO]

Does he have a good manual, or can he read?? Maybe highlight a few sections for him. lol

That's where I would start. Have him read the first page of disclaimers.

[6bg6ga]

Years ago when I worked in a factory I had to train people to run production machines. I took a the attitude that I would start them all out as if they knew absolutely nothing so I started from square one. I told them to listen to what I was telling them even if they had an idea of the workings of a particular machine. To put it bluntly I taught them as if they knew nothing and this technique worked because I had a 100% success rate. As a result of this I teach from square one on everything and no basics are skipped. Now, if you find it necessary to screen your calls in an attempt to ward off those questions you haven't done anyone any favors. Put a little extra time and effort into it and your most unqualified individual will reward your effort 10 fold. No one should be left behind..................

[6bg6ga]

Maybe a basic reloading section might be of some interest here. Explanation of basic dies for example with explanations of how the die is made the die operations, and so forth.

[dragon813gt]

I would be very blunt and tell him to find a new hobby. It sounds like he isn't mechanically inclined. Because if he was, he'd figure it out himself because this isn't rocket science. I'm a firm believer that not everyone should be using tools. Some people just don't understand things of the mechanical nature. These people should not be touching tools.

[6bg6ga]

I would be very blunt and tell him to find a new hobby. It sounds like he isn't mechanically inclined. Because if he was, he'd figure it out himself because this isn't rocket science. I'm a firm believer that not everyone should be using tools. Some people just don't understand things of the mechanical nature. These people should not be touching tools.
Everyone can be taught regardless of aptitude.

[btroj]

Everyone can be taught, IF they are willing to learn.

Being a reloader requires a certain level of desire. I don't know how one can be a "casual" reloader.

Does he really want to learn or is it just a curiosity?

[blackthorn]

It sounds like you have invested a good bit of time trying to teach this fellow. May I suggest it is time to subject him to an exam? I think I would set up a loading session where he has to start at square one and setup the equipment, prep the cases, choose a load, and build ten rounds to completion. I would provide NO help, nor would I make ANY suggestions until he had completed the "exam", I would just watch and make notes. At completion I would then go over his procedure(s) and either make constructive suggestions OR I would feel completely comfortable telling him I did not feel reloading was a vocation he should continue to pursue! Good luck.

[Tazman1602]

I've seen it a hundred times. If he isn't willing to pick up a book and READ THE BLASTED THING then I won't waste my time answering the same question over and over and over again.

If he's not willing to put some of his own time and effort into learning this, then I wouldn't waste mine. I don't know what's wrong with people today............

Art

[country gent]

Ive taken several reloading classes at the local Gun shop over the years and helped to give a couple.What Ive seen is unique in several ways. First are the uys that are there figuring they know more than you do and have more "skills", Second are the guys with out a clue never reloaded but seen the class posted and sighned up for it, next are the people looking for specific information usyally fairly advanced. I try to work with them all and give them what they need. The 5 gallon bucket of fired primers Id set beside the equipment table would take care of most of the first group. The second group we worked with through the lessons and they ussually came up to speed. The third group was actually helped on breaks. Things like neck turning, reaming, primer wads,reforming brass to other calibers, and or wildcatts were handled 1 on 1. Some have more mechanical ability than others some can eason and problem solve better. I have helped several gentleman set up benches and get started. I hae one that has only used the Lee mallet tools ( loads 5-6 calibers but they handle his needs very nicely) He keep looking at presses and other equipment but for him hes a "practical" reloader. Some take more patince and controll some seem to drop in and fly. One thing to remeber is when Teaching you have to work at the students pace not yours. Thats hard to do at times. Give him some more time and keep him safe, make him do everything hands on. Talk him thru it and explain each step in this way. Buy him a note book , 3 ring binder type paper and dividers. He can then take notes in the appropriate sections on the process and set up sectioons for loading notes on loads he uses. as you go along. This makes a home made manual less alot of the charge data.

[Trey45]

There's a fellow on the Facebook reloading page that has gotten into the habit of asking people to make videos instead of trying to tell him how to do something because he doesn't want to read. LAZY. That's the only way to describe it.

If the fellow you're trying to teach refuses to read a load manual or is incapable of understanding it, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms that handloading isn't for him. Be kind, but be firm.

[w5pv]

Hope he don't hurt himself or some one else!!

[Love Life]

Some people can't be taught things. You can usually spot these people because they breathe from their mouths.

When I teach people stuff I will show them a couple times, explain the how a couple times, have them prac. app. it a couple times, and they are on their own from there.

I will put as much effort into teaching a person something, as they put into learning that something. My effort is directly proportionate to their effort.

That's also why I don't help out on a lot of reloading question threads when certain questions are asked. Like " Why did my bullet seat so deep."

That tells me they did not read a manual and that they do not deserve my help because their input of effort is minimal.

That's just me, and I do applaud your effort in helping this person out.

[opos]

Got a buddy that runs 100 mph at idle all the time..his concept of living is "ready, fire, aim"...we've had long conversations about loading...he asks lots of questions but has no idea of the process or basics...whenever he tries to question me I simply say "it's in the book"...then the conversation swings to another subject...Reloading isn't for everyone just like skiing is not either....both can maim or cripple or worse so I don't ever try and "teach" unless someone is really eager to learn and also really eager to "wean away from the teacher" on their own..Not up to me to "enable" anyone.

[9w1911]

I dont mind helping if I can but if they refuse to read the manuals then sorry I wont help period, and I do suggest you do so with this guy, start over have him disassemble the press etc and start from square one,

[dragon813gt]

Everyone can be taught regardless of aptitude.

I will say this is a 100% false statement. Some people can't be taught. I personally can't be taught to play an instrument. Tried it many times and it just doesn't take no matter how much time and effort I put into it. I have a lot of friends that shouldn't attempt to fix anything around the house, but they attempt it. Not everyone can be taught everything. There is a reason there are mechanical aptitude tests. If you score low on one, reloading just might not be for you.

[snuffy]

I will say this is a 100% false statement. Some people can't be taught. I personally can't be taught to play an instrument. Tried it many times and it just doesn't take no matter how much time and effort I put into it. I have a lot of friends that shouldn't attempt to fix anything around the house, but they attempt it. Not everyone can be taught everything. There is a reason there are mechanical aptitude tests. If you score low on one, reloading just might not be for you.

Agreed! Some should not even own any gun!

The boss came into the break room one day many years ago. He asked does anybody have a .280 Remington? I said yes, he handed me 19 shells. I seems a co-hunter had bought them for his 7mm rem mag. The box had the designation 7 express Remington on it. (For a time, Remington changed the .280 to that cartridge name). The fired case was absent, I asked if he saw it, said the rifle was locked up, had to be taken to a gunsmith. Oh, he missed the deer as well. Obviously he had not taken the rifle out of the case since the last season.

The most basic requirement to be a reloader is mechanical aptitude. And the ability to solve problems with a mechanism. Some people just can't get it straight about cause and effect, when you turn a screw this direction, this happens.

That fella best get a hobby doing something that a mistake won't hurt you, well at least not TOO bad!

[brassrat]

I questioned this guy just yesterday if he had learned how a 9mm is made to headspace. I had explained to him, months ago, that the rim does not control this. He never checked and doesn't care because he likes his reloads.

[rondog]

Funny, reloading doesn't scare me in the least, but I learned how at probably 12 y.o. But messing around with molten metal scares the hell out of me! No telling when I'll actually try casting bullets, but I've a lot stashed away.

[TXGunNut]

I'm going to give it another couple of weeks, see if it was just my method of teaching. I tend to get irritated and do things myself instead of making the 'student' learn how to do it.

I'm going to try it this week as strictly hands off and see if he can get it, if not, then I'm going to break it to him that he should find something else to do and I'll walk him through the loading of what he has in components.

I've trained people that learn best by doing. I'll show them once, maybe twice and then step back and keep my hands in my pockets. I'll answer a question once, won't answer the same one again. Make him think about what he's doing, some folks can learn no other way.

[xs11jack]

I would agree with Love Life, I too, have tried a ton of musical instruments and just can't get the hang of it. But give me some tools and I will find a way to make something. At 14 I overhauled the family car and it purred like a kitten. I believe it has something to do with the way your brain develops. We have a lot of manual dexterity in my generation of the family. I am a Electronics tech., one cousin a house builder, one a doctor, two dentists, one apt owner and caretaker, etc. One female cousin can write with both hands at the same time. I think also some people suffer from such a brief attention span that even though they have good hands, they just can't stay with it to learn how to be any good at it.

[TXGunNut]

Next time he calls you could suggest he take up skydiving. ;-)

[sparkz]

I am no expert,, But I would have him Buy a few ( first load type manuals) and have him read, read, read, if he dont put in the time I don't think he will ever get it, and after the read-a-thon he should dog ear pages he needs help with and tell him to ref. the pages,,
but also to ask so he don't kill his self as a safety first


Have him buy a basic book

Patrick

[Char-Gar]

My introduction to handloading was a five minute demonstration on an old Pacific single stage press and a copy of the Lyman 41 reloading manual was placed in my hand. That was all I needed. Everything else I have learn has been accomplished through reading and paying attention to what I was doing. I didn't need anybody to take me by the hand and gently lead me through the process multiple times.

If you are not a retard, this is all it should take. If you are a retard or not motivated to learn, then nothing will help.

[Kraschenbirn]

Been there, done that, and, along the way, learned there's folks who just ain't got the makin's. If a wannabe lacks the interest/motivation to absorb a degree of competence in the basics, he's got no business messin' with things that can rear up and bite him on the butt.

Bill

[Love Life]

My introduction to handloading was a five minute demonstration on an old Pacific single stage press and a copy of the Lyman 41 reloading manual was placed in my hand. That was all I needed. Everything else I have learn has been accomplished through reading and paying attention to what I was doing. I didn't need anybody to take me by the hand and gently lead me through the process multiple times.

If you are not a retard, this is all it should take. If you are a retard or not motivated to learn, then nothing will help.

I love it. Refreshing honesty without the PC and fear of hurting feelings.

I had no mentor, and didn't watch any youtube videos. I started with a Dillon RL550B as my first press. Didn't blow myself up, my gun up, have never squibbed, etc. Reloading has an instruction manual. Actually it has quite a few instruction manuals.

When we say READ them, we are not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. We mean it. READ THE MANUAL!!!

[Mal Paso]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgo5c1FgPMk

[Win94ae]

Ask for payment. :twisted:

[Hamish]

Hamish, I did not know you were my unkel .

My side of the family is heavy on the back hair,,,,,,,,

[Frank46]

Probably like the same guy at our range. Anyone next to him moves several benches down as he has been known to have some rather interesting loading techniques. That and his idea of lubrication is sopping wet with some kind of oil. Frank

[possom813]

I sent him a message today that I would find him, "The ABC's of Reloading" to read and that would answer many of his questions better than I could.

I told him when I get a copy for him, that he should read it and highlight anything he doesn't understand and I'll walk him through it.

I haven't heard back from him yet, and he usually responds within minutes.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Classic indication of laziness. He wasn't looking for instruction. He was looking for you to do it for him. If he does respond, I'd follow through and get him that book, but I'd make him pay for it.

[9w1911]

still better than the guys like:

"hey guys Im new here but I wanted to get some loading info" and "just got back from getting supplies and all the powder was left was IMR 4895, I want to use this for my 38 special, anyone have data for this I cant find it online?"

[ruizhernandeztrust]

Depends are your willingness to invest more time in him.
If you want to try one more time, go over and show/explain what the task is. Insist that he takes notes.
When, not if, he calls tell him to refer to his notes.
If that doesn't work, charge him a dollar every time he asks a question. I'm dead serious. I do it all the time with people I'm training. If I get a trouble maker like that, I tell them it is a dollar from here on out for every question and walk away. Do not answer a question unless they give you a dollar. I guarantee you they will begin the think before asking.

Love it!, nice tip I need to keep in mind.